Corvino: The Village Atheist
This past week, I had a new experience: debating Glenn Stanton, Focus on the Family employee and frequent opponent of mine, before an audience of people who mostly sided with him.
This has happened perhaps only once before: at a marriage debate at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, voted by the Princeton Review as the No. 1 university “where ‘alternative lifestyles’ are NOT an alternative.”But this past week’s experience was different, because we weren’t debating same-sex marriage. We were debating the existence of God.
I’ve been a non-believer for the past 15 years or so. I’m not a fanatic about it. I don’t hand out tracts in airports or burn big question marks on people’s lawns. But I don’t believe in God.
Frankly, there’s a part of me that feels a bit impolite even bringing up the subject. I’m trying to get over that feeling, since I believe this nation could use a healthy dose of religious skepticism. A great deal of mischief gets licensed in the name of faith, giving people “infallible” backing for their prejudices.
So when my speaking agent phoned and asked if I’d be interested in doing a debate on God’s existence, I jumped at the chance. Glenn seemed a natural foil: Over the years, we’ve spent countless hours on the road discussing our contrasting worldviews, and that conversation was worth sharing. In my religious days, I would have called it “witnessing,” and the term is still apt: It’s talking openly about things I find important, regardless of how (un)popular.
Make no mistake about it: Atheism is unpopular. Polls regularly show in excess of 90 percent of Americans professing belief in God. Our debate was in Missouri, and even with efforts by the atheist, agnostic, and humanist student groups to rally the troops, I’d say that no more than 25 percent of audience members raised their hands when Glenn asked how many either didn’t believe in God or weren’t sure.
(Again, I thought such a direct question was impolite. With such reticence, you would think I had been raised Episcopalian.)
Here’s my position in a nutshell. I think there’s something deeply mysterious about the fact that human life—or for that matter, anything at all—exists. But I don’t see the point in trying to explain that mystery by appealing to something even more mysterious, and I don’t think that belief in God is supported by the evidence.
Do I think that it’s POSSIBLE that some kind of deity is out there? Sure—just like it’s possible that there’s life elsewhere in the universe. (It’s a pretty damn big universe.) So if your notion of God is vague enough, you could classify me as an agnostic.
But when it comes to the God of traditional theism—an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent creator who loves and cares deeply about us and reveals himself in scripture—I’m a flat-out atheist.
I don’t think the traditional picture of God is coherent, for two main reasons. One is the familiar Problem of Evil. The other, sometimes known as The Argument from Silence, is the tension between the claim that God wants us to know and love him, and the fact that he—though allegedly omnipotent—fails to make himself manifest to many people. That’s just not compatible with the image of God as a Loving Parent.
I don’t intend to establish any of these points in a short column. For that matter, I didn’t intend to establish them, in any final way, with most members of my audience this past week.
Instead, I aimed to do something akin to what I did when I started my public speaking career—in Texas, in the early 1990’s, often with hostile audiences. Back then, a big part of my mission was to provide an example of a thoughtful, real-life openly gay person to people who had never knowingly interacted with one. Replace “openly gay person” with “open atheist,” and you’ve got what I’m doing now.
Even after an hour of Q&A, I had dozens of Christians lining up to ask me personal questions. (I invited them to, so it wasn’t impolite.)
Question: “What do you think happens to you after you die?”
Answer: “The same thing that happened to me before I was born—nothing.”
Question: “What do you say to people who claim to have direct experience of God?”
Answer: “Are they actually hearing voices? Then they should see a doctor. Are they just having a ‘deep-down feeling’? Then how do they know it’s God?”
And so on.
Do I worry that my being outspokenly atheist will undermine my efforts as a gay-rights advocate (perhaps by feeding an image of gays as amoral heathens)?
I used to, but I don’t anymore. As I said, I think society needs a healthy dose of religious skepticism. And while I no longer believe in God, I still very much believe in truth, and courage, and integrity.
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John Corvino, Ph.D. is an author, speaker, and philosophy professor at Wayne State University in Detroit. His column “The Gay Moralist” appears Fridays on 365gay.com.
His upcoming speaking appearances include:
March 9: St. Olaf College, marriage debate with Glenn Stanton
March 10: University of Lethbridge (AB, Canada), lecture
Check school websites for room and time information. For more about John Corvino, go to www.johncorvino.com.







Um……folks……….
Someone needs to learn how to spell “Atheist”!!!!!
Thank you!!!!
Peter,
One of those Homer Simpson’s moments. Should have caught that myself!
Thanks for pointing it out.
Sincerely,
James
James:
I was going to go subtle and proclaim myself the ‘Athiest Atheist”, but decided to go mainstream.
Interesting column!
Good for you. I loved seeing the Atheists in the SF Pride Parade last year… They said they were just as ostracized as the other
‘queers’ so they felt they had a right to join. I did too.
As a Christian and Gay man, I believe genuine discussion concerning the existence of God and religious beliefs on the part of those who do believe in God must be welcomed, never discouraged. There are three very disturbing trends I have observed in recent years and all of them are a result of people not learning how to think. (Tragically, we still live in a culture where we teach WHAT to think, not HOW to think.)
The first trend is a move to fundamentalist religion. “If it is written in the Bible or in the Koran, then it must be taken as literal fact.” Any consideration of scientific and social contexts must be rejected. The result is a faith that turns God into little more than pretense and a club to force one group’s beliefs on others. Often, fundamentalist religious beliefs are an excuse for bigotry, including homophobia.
The second trend is pretend faith. People who don’t believe or who believe in something different than the socially or religiously correct faith pretend they believe and may even believe to some extent. However, that belief is unimportant in their lives. However, they have to pretend to believe in God for social (and often for career) reasons. This is hypocrisy of the worst kind.
Finally, there is fundamentalist atheism– and frankly, I find hardline atheists as intolerant and bigoted as hardline religious fundamentalists. Anti-Christian and anti-religious bigotry is as bad as homophobia, racism, anti-Semitism and sexism.
I believe there needs to be a growth in understanding and dialogue on everyone’s part. Then our society and culture can move toward accepting and celebrating people for who they are rather than in spite of who they are.
Hi John,
I agree with you that we need to have a lot more religious skepticism, it can be a tough subject to discuss with people though. It can surely get heated. I also wanted to share this website with you, I am not sure if you have seen it before but it is a really clever site with a lot of good information.
The website is:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Hope you and everyone else enjoys.
Have a beautiful day.
Fine, but to use a sarcastic line like you are hearing voices is just being snarky. It isn’t clever. It isn’t smart. And it isn’t funny. At one time you were considering the Priesthood I believe. Because of that, we have to ask, why aren’t you just an atheist bringing forth a view? When someone asked a question why do you go to the same place that Bible Thumpers go?
What I believe is irrelevant. But I was raised in the same Church as you, with a heavy dose of Protestantism from my mother. The thing is that you made your decisions. Be respectful. When someone who questions you, someone who is questioning themselves, ask you a question like that Doc, you need to be a little more professional and understand of the place they are. After all, you were there too.
John, keep in mind we now have so many examples of immoral christians that it is ludicrous for people to think atheist=immoral. Those that do are just too insecure to admit people are good and moral for other reasons than fear of eternal damnation.
Wayne M. funny you say it is only good to have this discourse amongst believers. Why not have a healthy discussion with atheists? Because you know it is all a lie and you are too afraid to be shown the truth. If I’m wrong, I’ve been waiting for 30 years for a religionist to tell me why they can’t argue on facts.
Also, you say intolerance of christians is as bad as homophobia. Shame on you! I’m not advocating violence nor removal of your rights. NOT EQUAL AT ALL. You show the same lack of reasoning required to have delusional beliefs. PLUS it is not intolerance of christians. How dare I be intolerant of you? it is intolerant of delusional beliefs that harm society. You should be able to see the distinction, but if so you’d also see what I mean about delusional.
It IS crazy. It is curable. Delusional faith is a choice.
John is right, there is no god. It is made up. The sooner religionists realize that, and stop lying about our prejudice against them (again, it is prejudice against the belief in fairy tales and the actions it causes believers to take) the sooner humans can start to evolve beyond belief.
I know it gives comfort, and it is easier to not fear eternal damnation than to be brave and admit there is no way there could be eternal damnation (where do those billions suffering fit? hell must be HUUUUUUUUGE) but life isn’t easy. if you think about it, believing reality actually should be easy, except for all the baggage your parents gave you.
whoa Erv, John hit a nerve or something? If it is not hearing voices, what is it. That is not “snarky” (what a horrible word..like eatery). It is being honest.
If hearing voices isn’t something you should go to the doctor for, what is? People have murdered over hearing voices. Tiller anyone?
Don’t be so defensive. If you don’t like hearing the truth, I suggest you don’t attack the messenger but examine why you don’t want to hear the truth.
I always get a laugh out of the charge of “fundamentalist” atheism.
If this was any other subject, religion would be laughed out of the room for lack of evidence. But because THESE beliefs are “deeply held” then that makes them “true”.
So let’s look at one of these beliefs, from the Christian Bible. Jesus told you to kill your disobedient kids (he really did… look it up). Either that means what it says, or it means whatever you want it to mean (and if it means whatever you want it to mean, so does the rest of the Bible). Either way, I want no part of a group that holds such a person up as a moral authority.
Douglas Adams wrote something like…
They were talking about the Babel fish.
” Now it is such a bizarrely impossible coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the nonexistence of God. The argument goes something like this:
“I refuse to prove that I exist,” says God, “for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.”
“But,” say Man, “the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn’t it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don’t. QED.”
“Oh dear,” says God, “I hadn’t though of that” and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.”
It took many years for me to accept the fact that I’m homosexual. That was about the same amount of time that it took to realize that I do not believe in God as I was taught from a very early age. I have found it easy to make the exchange. It have become increasingly easy for me to say I am gay and do not believe in God. So that means I am an Atheist.
I am an atheist. Yesterday I accompanied a female Catholic friend to visit a male Catholic in the hospital. He had suffered brain damage that left him somewhat physically impaired, with a mild speech impediment, and he was undergoing rehabilitative therapy. The two of them were talking about all the prayers their families and friends were saying and how helpful they were. My female friend recited a litany of saints she was praying to, to the delight of the patient. They were really getting high on all that talk. I just watched them, thinking how naive people can be. But if it makes them feel good and gives them the hope they need to live on, who am I to throw a monkey wrench into their works?
Such displays of religious faith and belief in god are ultimately harmless, but many other manifestations of religion, including using it–and that old standby, the Bible–as an excuse or justification for bigotry persecution are intolerable.
Randy, he never said that. And you can look it up.
I guess it did hit a nerve. I am having a hard time with all the people who are gay like me being atheists. I am not the best religious person in the world, but I am, as one person has written it, a religionist. I come from the South. I have lived my life with evangelicals and going to a Catholic Church that my relatives thought was the great whore of babylon in the Apocalypse. I know that these people are nut jobs.
And I don’t believe the bible is fundamental fact. I just don’t accept it. I disregard things all the time in the Bible. I also believe that the Bible says it is not necessary to believe in Jesus or even believe in God to be “saved” or “redeemed” or whatever.
I have never asked anybody to convert. I haven never insulted atheists or agnostics or as a friend calls himself an apatheist (he just doesn’t care if there is a God). But since I came out, and I came out late after a long battle with brain tumors in my life that cause me considerable pain and a mixed up everything, I have been criticized and laughed at for believing. I have been told I am in the majority in the Gay community. If that is true, I have not seen it.
I don’t go to Church on a regular basis and I don’t go to the MCC or ICC. I take comfort in my beliefs and faith. And that is okay. I don’t need to be made to feel inferior because I still believe in what has been described here as voices, or something else. I have always felt live your life and answer questions honestly as you can. But answering the way he did, is not nice. Someone had a question. Someone who may eventually believe the way he does. I think he owed that person a fair answer and a little compassion in his struggles to find his own belief.