Comments on: Corvino: That’s how I was raised

By: montrealbren

montrealbren — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:34:50 +0000

OK, John, no disrespect meant here, but I’m going to comment on the forks/dishwasher topic despite your pleas to refrain.

The way that you place your forks in the dishwasher is, in fact, correct. This has nothing to do with tradition – instead, there is sound science to back it up. Luckily, it also jives with common sense, though it’s admittedly a topic that people don’t much think about – unless they know the scientific reasoning that would make placing forks tines up the healthier choice.

The scientific concept is simple: gravity. This is the reason we should place ALL cutlery “handle-down”. The part that you put in your mouth should be facing upward. This applies to the dishwasher and to air-drying cutlery. It means you’ll have to be extra careful with knives, as they will be blade-up.

When cutlery is washed, the dirtiest part is the top, not the handle. Washing removes most of the dirt. Yet inevitably, some microbes and bacteria and chunks of food remain. After washing, gravity causes remaining water to run down the cutlery. Therefore, if there are microbes stuck to the tines after washing, and it is placed tines-up to air dry, there is a chance the water will whisk the offending bacteria down to the handle – where it is less likely to end up in your mouth during the next use.

Obviously, this is not to be seen as an excuse for poor washing. But it makes some kind of sense.

It is the “tines-down” method of post-washing placement that, when it comes to gravity, that might be more convincing: if all cutlery is placed “handles up”, the portion you stick in your mouth is bathing in a soup of leftover crap that gravity has pulled downward. If you missed that chunkette of raw chicken on your knife, the little puddle of run off water may well be a salmonella breeding ground – and ALL your tines, blades and spoon-ends are soaking in it. Gross.

Which all just proves your point: “Because I was raised that way” or “I’ve always done it like that” is a form of reasoning that needs to be re-examined constantly and compared with the information you NOW have. In most cases, you’ll be fine and dandy: this tradition-based “reason” is used for a lot of good things.

But if you have new information about a topic that contradicts your personal tradition-based justification – and you continue to use tradition to justify your maintenance of a belief you now know to be incorrect, you are in effect saying “I was raised to be a fool and a hypocrite”.

Using tradition to justify anything holds about as much water as “Because I said so”. There’s always a better reason.

By: Kirby

Kirby — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:34:37 +0000

In central TX, I was raised ot hear and use terms such as “pepper belly” and “nigger” for local residents that were different from my family, along with “queer” and “fairy” for those thought to be homosexual. From my community and family I was taught to be intolerant of homosexuals even though I don’t know if my family actually knew any such persons.
In my early school experience I quickly learned there were many people different from me and my family and found them to be very much like me. Many soon became close friends to me. During my entire public school experience, our community operated a totally segregated school district; therefore, I did not have any contact with the black community until my work experience. I had to quickly “unlearn” the many incorrect things that I had been taught. It was not difficult to cease the use of those previous incorrect terms that was in fact slurs. For many years after I realized my attraction to other men, I ostracized such persons. The truth was that my fear caused me to avoid them and use terms just as I had learned. I later realized that my fear was that I might be known by those with whom I associated. Yes, today it’s a stupid attitude, but that’s how I was raised. I even had to learn that love is what holds 2 individuals together, no matter how they appear on the outside. It was a difficult journey for my past 66 years to “unlearn” how I was raised and am a much better and content man for doing so.

By: Jon

Jon — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 23:22:33 +0000

If society stuck to it’s traditions and did not evolve, we would still be medieval at best.

By: Evelyn in NJ

Evelyn in NJ — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 07:06:21 +0000

In my highschool yearbook there was a section for different accomplishments. One was the best teacher of the year, and another happened to be the best minority teacher of the year. My sister, a few friends and I protested against this, seeing right away how wrong it was to have an entirly different catagory for “minorities” (needless to say that “minority” teacher quit that year) and yet in my sisters yearbook, the following year, the catagory still existed. The winner that time around did not have a smile on his face, where as all the other people from the other sections did. I wonder why?…

By: equalnotspecial

equalnotspecial — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 17:19:42 +0000

Dave, I agree. As long as, like in California, equal rights can be taken away by a simple majority vote, it matters what straight people think. That is why we must continue to educate, not alienate.

We must end DADT for the same reason. It teaches prejudice and discrimination to every new recruit and to the general public as well. We will never reach full equality as long as we continue to teach prejudice.

By: Will

Will — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 06:39:04 +0000

Great article. Thank you, and look forward to seeing you next Thursday night @ GVSU in MI.

By: Dave of Arizona

Dave of Arizona — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 17:45:10 +0000

In response to The Menstruator’s statement, “I’m still so unsure why us gays seem to give a crap what straights think about us.”

For our own inherent sense of self-worth, of course we shouldn’t care what others think.

However, when we need straight legislators to vote favorably on our issues, or when we need corporate executives and business owners to offer equal benefits (to name just two examples), then it matters what straight people think of us.

By: Ginelle

Ginelle — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:51:59 +0000

Interesting thoughts and excellent essay, John Corvino. As humans we are continuously evolving, some of us a lot slower then others. With modern technology and education, change comes at us at an ever increasing speed. We can either adapt and learn the new ways of doing something, with the possibility of improving our lives, or we can balk and try to ignore the change leaving ourselves somewhere in the unknown past. I think too, that it all holds true for the Gay Community and the issue of Gay Marriage. As our community has become more visible and out there, people are getting to know us, and I think they are finding that we aren’t such a bad bunch afterall. Not so many years ago if you were gay, you were shunned and segregated to the closet because this was the way it had always been dealt with! It is absolutely remarkable how much progress we have made in the last few years, we have been very instrumental in educating the community at large and assisting people to leave the old traditions by the wayside. This can only lead to more positive changes towards equality for the Gay Community, and for all of us born in the 1950’s and 1960’s, we can only imagine what good things will happen by the time we are ready to wrap our lives. Thanks again, John for your inspirational article!

By: Dermot

Dermot — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:04:25 +0000

South Pacific said it well:

“You’ve got to be taught before it’s too late
Before you are six or seven or eight
To hate all the people your relatives hate
You’ve got to be carefully taught”

By: RJLIgier

RJLIgier — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:22:15 +0000

In your best “my marriage does not affect your marriage explanation”, can you tell me how a borderline caretaker environment, regardless of the gender or socioeconomic status of the caretaker environment, does not cause psychological harm to children?