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Loading ...Corvino: Prop 8 and the rest of us
Last week I participated in a Prop. 8 protest in Los Angeles. It was a peaceful event, on a gorgeous day, and I couldn’t help but be inspired by the large numbers who turned out to stand up for equal rights.
Let’s be honest, though: after a while, listening to speeches gets boring, and marching in the sun is exhausting. I tried to amuse myself by reading the signs, some of which were quite funny. My favorite: “My two lesbian moms can beat up your six wives.”But then the professor in me kicked in, and I wanted to go around and correct the typos. (“There is no J in ‘religious’, dear, and please don’t abuse semi-colons.”)
So I started focusing on the chants. These have not changed much since I began attending rallies in the early 90’s. “What do we want? Equal rights! When do we want ‘em? Right now!”
After two hours of the same, however, I felt the need to mix it up a bit. “What do we want? Bloody Marys! When do we want ‘em? Right now!” (Honestly, I did think that someone should have provided a proper brunch. Hello, we’re GAY.)
Then my single friends got in the act. “What do I want? That hunk over there! When do I want him? 8 tonight!” I asked, “Why 8?” and they explained that a power nap would be necessary after all this marching.
Some of you might think that I shouldn’t joke about a serious civil rights event.
If you are one of those people, have a Bloody Mary and get over yourself.
While doing so, please reflect on the fact that although the Prop. 8 result was a huge disappointment, in the grand scheme of things the situation for gays in California is not that bad.
California gays will go back to having virtually all the statewide legal incidents of marriage via domestic-partnership legislation. That’s not quite as good as marriage, but, as my dad would say, it’s better than a sharp stick in the eye.
Relative to California, “sharp stick in the eye” is the gay-rights norm in most states, metaphorically speaking.
In my home state of Michigan, not only do we lack domestic-partner legislation, our constitution bans it. And our attorney general interprets that ban as prohibiting public employers from offering health-insurance benefits, for example, to same-sex partners.
This past election day, Florida passed a ban similar to Michigan’s, and thus much worse than California’s Prop. 8. Not only did it pass, it passed with a whopping 62% of the vote. With all the fuss over California, you may not have heard about it.
Arizona passed a ban that was limited to marriage, and thus less obnoxious than Florida’s and Michigan’s (and many others). But Arizona’s ban appeared on the ballot only because of a dishonest last-minute parliamentary maneuver—another story you should have heard about, but probably didn’t.
And for the worst bit of gay election-day news, consider Arkansas, which passed a ban on unmarried persons serving as adoptive or foster parents. That ban was specifically targeted to fight “the gay agenda,” but what it means is that thousands of children who could have stable loving homes will instead languish in state care.
Yes, it hurts to have a right taken away, as happened in California. And it’s an egregious injustice to have minority rights taken away by a majority vote—a close one, no less. But there are other bad things happening to gay people elsewhere, and some of them are horrific.
Please remember that are places in the world where people are hanged for consensual gay sex, and where it is dangerous even to speak out in their defense. Please remember that, just a few years ago, consensual gay sex was illegal in over a dozen states here in the U.S.
If it takes California to get people across the nation marching and chanting about civil rights, so be it. It’s an enchanting place in many ways. But please remember that many of us in the “flyover” states would be grateful to have the status that gay Californians now (quite rightly) find insulting.
I ask you to remember these things, not because they excuse the current injustice in California (they don’t) or render its correction unimportant (ditto). Indeed, one can make the case that California progress (or lack thereof) has a profound effect on the rest of the nation.
I ask you to remember them, rather, for two reasons. First, to remind us of how far we’ve come in short time, all across the nation. And second, to stress that the nation is a large one, with a lot happening in between its two coasts. Please remember the rest of us.
John Corvino, Ph.D. (www.johncorvino.com) is an author, speaker, and philosophy professor at Wayne State University in Detroit. His column appears Fridays at 365gay.com. He is currently traveling in London.
I agree with most of those who already commented in that this post of yours is pure trash.
It’s always apologism with you, isn’t it?
Well, holding the enemy’s hand and trying to rationalize with the irrational is going to get us NOWHERE!
It is this complacent attitude that is preventing us from taking what is ours!
We need to demand our rights, and demand them NOW goddamn it!
“You’re never given power. You have to take it!”
- Harvey Milk
Anyone want to come to Connecticut? We’re getting married this week. And so can you.
My suggestion: come get married here, and then go back to your states with your legal documents.
Fight the fight from the inside: get married, and then let them deny the 14th amendment.
We’ll win in time, and then we’ll all have a few bloody marys.
Corvino— I ardently agree. Thank you for a level-headed perspective.
Mr. Corvino,
Like many others, I regularly look forward to your essays, and frequently praise them. Not this time. As most of the other comments have already said, this is not a joke. Fun was certainly had at the nationwide protests. I also agree that Californians have it better than much of the country, but better is not equality. Remember, we had, for a brief time, equality, and now that has been ripped away from us. What we are left with may be better than a “sharp stick in the eye,” but that doesn’t mean we should relax and have a drink, as you seem to suggest. We (all those dedicated to equality for everyone) need to focus, plan, and take action, in California, and Florida, and… the rest of the country. Now that I have had a taste of state-wide equality, I want to work to ensure that everyone not only tastes it, but can come to take it for granted. That is my goal. What is yours?
Respectfully,
Christopher
(Sorry about the repost … something happened to my “spell-corrected” post. Somehow my clipboard it failed. Don’t know what though.)
What do we want? Good gay news articles! When do we want them? NOW! Damnit, NOW!
Please, 365gay.com leaders and editors! Please Mr. Corvino! Stop all the idiotic scribbling.
Do we really have to read all the crappy diatribe that has been thrust on us now that the election is over, and the demonstrations are slowly declining? Do we really have to read all the “wait till the time is right, and the cows have come home on their own” condescending articles? Do we have to read all the “I am outraged at the banality of the articles” postings?
Better yet, do I have to also write one of those banal postings? Well, I have put it off for far too long. What I have been expecting, besides the “anti-gay postings” we see occasionally, are some good ideas on how to push thought the “gay-rights”, that is properly read, “equal human rights” agenda. I am tired of the “wait and see” articles, and the “gotta have a gay-war now” comments.
Actually, I want some action and positive action towards out bad situation now, and I want it to be NATIONAL. State-by-state is a useless effort and will take an enormous amount of money and time. We are a small group, hence the properly-used term “MINORITY”. Our only defense is the courts, and in particular, the UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT.
Until we file a slew (notice the term, a purposeful conjugation of “slay”) of law suits which will force the courts to hear our pleas, nothing will get done. All of the legislatures are only interested in getting elected in the upcoming election, and the people will deny us our rights, our right, as we have seen this year, even in the most liberal state. So what are we left to do? COURT CASES, people. COURT CASES! Thousands and thousands of COURT CASES!!!!! Perhaps the “Horton Government” need to hear a very loud WHO!
What do we want? EQUAL HUMAN RIGHTS! When do we want them? NOW!
What do we want? Good gay news articles! When do we want them? NOW! Damnit, NOW!
Please, 365gay.com leaders and editors! Please Mr. Corvino!
Do we really have to read althe crappy diatribe that has been thrust on us now that the election is over, and the demonstrations are slowly declining? Do we really have to read all the “wait till the time is right, and the cows have come home on their own” condescending articles? DO we have ot read all the “I am outraged at the banality ofthe articles” postings?
Better yet, do I have to also write one of those banal postings? Well, I have put it off for far too long. What I have been expecting, besides the “anti-gay postings” we see ocassionally, are some good ideas on how to push throught the “gay-rights”, that is properly read, “equal humna rights” agenda. I am tired of the “wait and see” articles, and the “gotta have a gay-war now” comments.
Actually, I want some action and postive action towards out bad situation now, and I want it to be NATIONAL. State-by-state is a useless effort and will take an enormous amount of money and time. We ar ea small group, hence the propely-used term “MINORITY”. Our only defense are the courts, and in particular, the UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT.
Until we file a slew (notice the term, a purposeful declension of “slay”) of law suit which will force the courts to hear our pleas, nothing will get done. all of the legislatures are only interested in getting electe dinthe upcoming election, and the people will denyus our rights, ourright, as we have seen this year, even in the most liberal state. So what are we left to do? COURT CASES, people. COURT CASES! Thousands and thousands of COURT CASES!!!!! Perhaps the “Horton Government” need to hear a very loud WHO!
I can understand the HRC and certain other “gay” organizations advocating us to be patient and wait for our rights. When we gain equality, they are out of a job. No more hob-nobbing with the wealthy and affluent, no more social brunches paid for by donations. I can understand why THEY don’t want the gravy train to come to a stop. My question is why you, John, think its ok to advocate continued inequality in the name of patience. What do YOU get out of such a position? Is it because you arent 60 yet and figure that waiting another 20 or 40 years is something you can afford to do? Is it because you are happy simply co-habitating with your partner and marriage isn’t that big of a deal for you? Is it because that, like the HRC, you might not be earning those speaker fees if such speeches are no longer needed? Please just give me ONE GOOD REASON why waiting the past 40 plus years since Stonewall isn’t enough of a foot-dragging approach to equality. Crawl back under the porch little dog, the big dogs are out now and need to chew a little arse to get our point across.
Since I discovered 365 about a year ago, I have found that I am always excited when I see there is something new from John Corvino. I was so startled by this piece, I read all the replys and then read his opinion piece again. I’m forgiving the ‘cuttin up and carrin on’ at the event as Sarah P might say. The news is in the mass and its presence, so some distractions (self amusement)inside the crowd can be overlooked. After all, getting club kids, old queens who have never protested, activist lesbians, and students of every stripe all together in the day light for hours is a substantial accomplishment. (We may never be able to thank the Mormons and Catholics enough for that.) I still can’t believe that John doesn’t get that the protest was across the country and it wasn’t for No on Prop 8. It was because of Yes on Prop 8. We want that fixed now but we want a NATIONAL solution in the next 4 years.
I am sickened by the frivolous and faggy tone of this piece. It insults gay and lesbian people who are fighting for equality to the CORE. This is NOT a time to make jokes nor downplay the seriousness of the times. When gay and lesbian writers turn issues into something about sex or debauchery they do so to the detriment of the community as a whole and they insult the very people the community needs to achieve rights. There is a a huge difference between a gay man, who has self respect both collectively and as an individual, and a common good for nothing club kid fag. Corvino is showing himself to be more of a simple minded faggot than a gay man.
Now,, I myself am from a RED state, Louisiana. We lost ALL of our rights during an amendment passage done in the middle of the evacuation of Hurricane Ivan, when most of the gay residents of New Orleans could NOT weigh in on their own rights. After Katrina I moved to Boston, with NOTHING except a University of New Orleans backpack and a change of clothes. Knowing that I was in a state, excuse me Commonwealth, that I had the right to marry was enough of a silver lining to the disaster to make it through losing all my worldly possessions. In fact, when the amendments came around to eliminate marriage equality and replace it with civil unions were proposed I made tearful speeches to my representatives and senators that I would rather lose all my possessions yet again then lose my rights as a human being. Our no compromise position and zero tolerance for civil unions, is what secured marriage equality in Massachusetts.
I live in Nashville right now, and Tennessee, like most of America has no legal protections for gays and lesbians. But that doesn’t mean that success in Massachusetts, Connecticut or California doesn’t effect us. If we lose states like California and settle for DPs or CUs there, we will NEVER have marriage equality in Michigan or Tennessee or Louisiana. We need to support marriage equality 100% in California, we need to stand in solidarity with Gay and Lesbian Californians NOT joke about “the hunk over there” and “bloody marys” and goddamned brunches. It’s leaders like Corvino who’ve kept the gay and lesbian movement paralyzed and incapable of moving forward. For once, we need leaders who want to harness raw anger and justifiable impatience, not force us to take the “tranquilizing drug of gradualism” while gawking at some hot hunk.
Self appointed “leaders” like Corvino have been the people holding our community back. These are the sell outs who’ve told us to worship at the altar eventuality, only to be disappointed as we watch countries like Canada, Belgium, Spain, Sweden, South Africa and even Nepal zoom passed us in the blink of an eye. We’re told “change takes time” over and over and over again, until we believe it will be 1,000 years before we have any rights. The same people who preach devotion to the concept of non-violence as espoused by MLK, also conveniently forget that he preached also against taking the “tranquilizing drug of gradualism” and that it was our duty to confront evil in the world. So why do Gay and Lesbian people still listen to bafoons like Corvino or Ethridge or Sullivan. We’re not like African Americans, we’ll never have some gay messiah on the level of MLK to lead us to the promised land. We need to lead our damned selves and the quicker we start ignoring fools like Corvino the better.
I live in South Carolina and even I understand the impact of Prop 8 across the nation.
Why the fuss over California? Because homophobes all over the country contributed money to support Prop 8. The religious right knows California is our front line. Apparently many gays don’t.
Re-reading this essay, I find it downright offensive, so much so that I hope 365gay (if not Corvino himself) actually pulls it. I have to agree with Michael’s suspicion of self-loathing (conscious or not) on the part of Mr. Corvino. (I also agree, heartily, with Stacy Brand and Rose’s comments.) It’s like he’s got some unresolved shame and he wishes to foist it onto other people who have been stirred to a new level of self-respect and self-protection and due assertiveness. Those qualities are incompatible with shame, and they tend to trouble people with unresolved shame issues.
It is perhaps not an accident that the author brings up stereotypes of effeteness. He wants the pseudo-safety of not having to ask for, or demand, what you deserve…to be spineless…to be a vapid bon vivant.
I came out 17 years ago, and I have to say that I’ve been over gay-men-and-Bloody-Marys, gay-men-and-brunch, gay-men-always-on-the-make, and gay-men-schedule-date-nap jokes in any context, for at least 10 years. Ditto lesbians-and-their-power-tools-or-whatever jokes. To meld this stuff into a discussion of Prop. 8 is embarrassing and incredibly inappropriate.
So I hope Mr. Corvino works on the issues I suspect he has, and refrains from acting out that sh*t at the world’s expense.
Please. As if no one expected Florida and Arkansas to pull this shit. We knew what they were going to do, and, sad to say, it wasn’t exactly going to change the lot of the GLBT folks in Florida.
Prop 8 was a specific attack on the rights of 18,000 GLBT families that had been granted the right to marry. It was our rights being torn away, and frankly we didn’t expect this shit to pass. We didn’t expect people to be so cruel as to tear HUMAN RIGHTS and DIGNITY away from us.
So excuse me if I don’t appreciate your pithy attitude and dismissal. This momentum that the GLBT community has found as a result of Prop 8 is not something to be dismissed, and it’s that attitude that hurts our chances in ALL states.
Defeating Prop 8 was important for the very reasons you mentioned: the inequality across the states. I was raised in Arkansas and went to graduate school in Florida. I’m one of those who believes that California can set a precedent, which is why this was so important. I’m sorry if you think everyone’s taking to the streets just for California and just for marriage. That is a more narrow vision than reading just for typos or misspelled words.
You’re an idiot. The fact that you’re a professor shocks me. WhAt do you teach? Gay apologism 101? Advanced divisiveness? Oh, I know: learning annex seminars on self loathing.
I’ve been appreciative of John Corvino’s essays in the past, but not this one. I find it a disservice. My issue is not exactly with the content, but with the emotional tenor, which is on the order of “slow down and go get brunch and crack some jokes…don’t be so passionate or concerned or fired up.” We have momentum right now. Long term, properly tended passion and momentum, like we have, again, RIGHT NOW, will help ameliorate, over the longer term, all of these inequalities and injustices in Michigan and elsewhere.
It’s damn foolish, and harmful, to throw a wet blanket on it, in any way at all.