Subscribe to Breaking News
Loading ...Corvino: Friends with the enemy
Glenn Stanton is a friend of mine. He’s also badly wrong about same-sex marriage, and I tell him so—frequently, publicly, and sharply.
Glenn works at Focus on the Family, a premier organization of the religious right. He and I regularly debate same-sex marriage at campuses around the country.Glenn has written about our relationship in the January issue of Christianity Today, where he describes us as “highly unlikely but dear friends.” It’s a good description.
Glenn was the first person to call to congratulate me when I received tenure at my university. While traveling, we share our “down time” in spirited conversation about politics, family relationships, work challenges, and so on. We often joke with each other.
I’m sure that more than one waiter, observing us out for a post-debate snack, have wondered whether we are business partners or boyfriends. If they were to eavesdrop, they’d know: when Glenn takes a call from his wife Jackie, I always say “hi”; he does the same for my partner Mark (whom he graciously describes in the article as “the kind of man many fathers would want their daughters to meet”).
How can I be friendly with a card-carrying member of the religious right? My facetious answer: I drink. My serious answer: it’s a complex and sometimes tense relationship, but it works for us.
Gay people should know better than anyone that personal affection doesn’t always conform to socially expected patterns. Yes, he’s a right-winger, but I genuinely like the guy.
And I don’t merely like him in spite of his professional mission. Alongside our differences, Glenn and I have a shared mission as well. We believe that serious subjects deserve a thoughtful public dialogue, not soundbites and personal attacks. We want to promote by example a better conversation.
Some people wonder how we can debate the same issue over and over without our events becoming scripted or phony. Good question.
First, this is a multi-faceted issue, and there’s always something new to talk about. Second, much of our program consists of audience Q&A—an element that changes each time.
Third, knowing each other’s fundamental position allows us continually to hone our presentations, cutting right to the heart of the matter. We don’t spend lots of time trying to figure out where each other is coming from—although we still have misunderstandings, which we aim to use constructively.
Why do we debate? It’s not so that we can ambush each other with unexpected zingers (although we keep trying). It’s not even to convince each other—although I’d like to think, in the years we’ve been doing this, I’ve had some positive effect on him, and thus on Focus.
We do debates to convince our audiences. He wants them to oppose same-sex marriage, I want them to support it, and we both want them to talk about it, civilly but nonetheless rigorously.
Do I worry that our mutual graciousness makes it too easy for him to feel “open-minded” and “tolerant” while maintaining an anti-gay stance? I would, were it not for the fact that I remind him regularly of how wrong and hurtful that stance is. In my view, such reminders have more weight coming from a sincere friend than a hostile enemy.
We don’t pull punches. As Glenn writes, “We have no interest in maintaining a lowest-common-denominator, kumbaya civility.” At times we genuinely annoy each other. If we think the other is being disingenuous or unfair, we say so.
We also occasionally surprise each other. Glenn recounts some of these moments in his article, but he misses my favorite. One day when we were driving back from an event, I told Glenn that Mark and I had decided to exchange vows in a commitment ceremony.
He said “Congratulations.” I nearly swerved off the road.
That led to a long, challenging, and emotional conversation about how to appreciate others’ values even while sharply disagreeing with key aspects of them.
Glenn made it clear that he disapproves of “homosexual conduct.” And I made it clear that my partnership with Mark is not just an ordinary friendship with romantic intimacy added on as an optional, freestanding feature. Our so-called “homosexual conduct” is integral to the relationship.
I think Glenn sees my point, though I’m not sure he’s fully resolved the dilemma it poses.
Then again, I’m not sure I’ve fully resolved the dilemma of how to cherish Glenn without endorsing problematic aspects of his personal and professional goals.
It’s a friendship in process, and I’m grateful for it.
John Corvino, Ph.D., is a writer, speaker, and philosophy professor at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan. His column appears Fridays at 365gay.com. Read more at www.johncorvino.com.
I have relationships with two individuals in my office that are very similar to Glenn and Corvino’s relationship. Both of them are far right-wing Christian, against the legal recognition of same-sex couples, and yet we are friends. I think the reason why these relationships work is for a number of reasons. #1. We don’t directly attack each other for believing what we believe. and more importantly #2. we recognize each other’s basic humanity as human beings and appreciate the positive things we bring to this world that are beyond issues of sexuality.
Over the years, they have grown to know a gay man who “doesn’t fit what they’ve been told about gays” and I’ve learned that not all people who oppose LGBT equality approach it from a hate/fear perspective. I still disagree with them on LGBT issues and make that clearly known to them, but I’m putting a human face to “the other” for them and they are doing the same for me. That is something that is sorely missing these days.
Good article Corvino, and not an easy topic at all to tackle and do it justice.
A great example of how fundamental differences do not exclude the possibility of mutual cooperation and friendship. You disagree about issues you are both passionate about, but rather than resorting to violence to resolve that disagreement you discuss, debate – you communicate.
It would be very easy to condemn a person such as yourself for “sleeping with the enemy”, but I personally applaud it. In fact, I feel we need more people who are willing to listen to the other side and communicate with words rather than fists.
Here’s the thing I struggle with in regard to being close (big emphasis on the word “close”) friends with someone who feels that homosexual conduct is wrong and who opposes gay marriage: I have yet to spend time with someone like this where I haven’t felt the slight (emphasis on the word “slight”) chill of disapproval in their not-quite-100%-something-being-held-back congratulations, smiles, and well wishes. And, in the cases in which I hadn’t detected the reticence, their later confirmation of how they really felt hurts me more than with those for whom I detect the withholding.
Perhaps I’m sensitive, and others are less so. I suspect strongly that’s true. But I don’t allow people close to me (as a “close” friend) who send me even the faintest whiffs of disapproval…I get enough of that from society. I don’t need it close by me, when I think I’m “home” and with “family.”
So, given my sensitive, emotional make up (though some who know me would laugh at the description, ’cause I can be tough, too), I could not befriend someone to the degree you have, and I kinda “don’t get it.” But I retreat to, “Not everyone is me…don’t judge…give others space, ’cause I want the space to live my life the way I want to.”
“We believe that serious subjects deserve a thoughtful public dialogue, not soundbites and personal attacks.”
That’s the ticket right there, for both sides. Nice article!
I’m reminded of the scene in “Do the Right Thing,” in which Mookie reminds the racist, white pizza shop owner that many of his favorite musicians (Prince, among others). At first, the pizza shop owner wrinkles his face, a bit taken aback by this inconsistency. He then replies, “Well…I don’t *think* of them as being *black*.”
I suspect that that’s what a lot of these conservatives are doing who befriend us. They take their gay friends, they put them in a “special category” that isn’t quite “gay,” and that allows them to continue to fight against the rest of those “regular gays.”
This is not an argument for not befriending conservative straights. The more gay people they get to know, I think, the more they will have a difficult time compartmentalizing, separating their gay friends from “those other gays” that they choose to oppress.
It’s a process…it’s all good….
yawn
so,if you got marrie would you invite him?
if he said no, would you be offended? if he said yes, would he be turning his back on his people?
either way, Im still in awe that you guys actually do that many debates? maybe you should give up, they arent doing any good lol.
“Glenn Stanton is a friend of mine.”
You have shitty friends.
Just like the sleeping volcano, the christian wrath will explode.
Then, we will see the true friendship of this relationship.
I think it is wonderful that you can overcome differences and accept each other’s views. If we could all do that, it would be a better world.
I had a friend with whom I agreed to disagree about homosexuality (we are both straight) but had to lose him as a friend because he couldn’t agree to allow me my feelings. His belief is that all gays should be lined up and shot.
John, I recently discovered that a high school friend of mind that I reconnected with works for Focus as well. It has led to some interesting conversations as well.
Screw that! ..at 48yrs old I am not taking anybodys BS…I would NERVER associate with someone who thought I should have less rights then them because they have “hetero” sex,or it’s supposedly more superior then me ….No Eff’ing way…Life is too short..and I refuse to spend any quality time in MY life with such close minded people…I feel this way..cause’ I feel I AM IN THE RIGHT….thier dogma,or self rightousness are NOT my friend! I lost alot of young yrs worrying about what others thought..NO MORE,THAT TIME IS OVER!
Being friends with the enemies of our community makes it easier for them to say “I oppose gay marriage and “special” rights for gays but this doesn’t make me homophobic”.
By associating with, being friends with and tolerating homophobic bigots, you are telling them that it is OK to hate us and deny us rights. Could someone imagine a Black man claiming to be friends with a Klansmen,, or a Jew being friends with a Nazi!!?!?! This bullsh*t has to stop NOW.
People like Corvino are not only selling out himself but his own community. His cordial friendship with bigots, is the very thing we should all be avoiding.
I personally think it’s a great thing that you two are friends. People in America should follow you two’s example. And who are we to say that he has shitty friends? You people always talk about how people don’t want to tolerate us or have an open mind, yet you unjustifiable say he’s wrong to have a friend like that. Though they both disagree, they both tolerate each other, and that’s how it should be. Everyone in America needs to learn how to agree to disagree, just as these two have.
Thank you, Dr. Corvino!
Now, if only you could nearly swerve off the road having James Dobson as your passenger!
I never thought that I’d say this—but maybe, just maybe, our battle with the right starts one on one!
They must see us as EQUALS! That’s only a starter!
I thought I had a good friend in a co-worker who is a devote Christian. It was until Prop 8 came about that I found her what her true feelings about gays were, including her thinking that being gay is somehow a choice and that gays parents only confuse children. Well, I now know that she’s really not a friend, just a co-worker. SO I think you should re-examine the definition of what a TRUE FRIEND really is….