Subscribe to Breaking News
Loading ...Corvino: Coming out skeptical
I’m a big proponent of being out, not just about being gay, but about any personally significant trait whose revelation subverts problematic assumptions. For me, that includes being out as an atheist.
“Atheist or agnostic?” I’m often asked.For practical purposes, I’m not sure that there’s much of a difference. Do I believe that it’s POSSIBLE that there’s a deity of some sort? Sure. I also believe that it’s possible that there’s intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. (It’s a pretty damn big universe.) But I don’t have good evidence for either, don’t believe in either, and don’t make life decisions on the basis of the vague possibility of either.
I wasn’t always an atheist. Indeed, during college I joined a religious order and had planned to enter the priesthood. This fact surprises people, though it shouldn’t. Taking religion seriously enough to subject it to scrutiny is one common path to religious skepticism. As Thomas Hobbes wrote in the seventeenth century,
“For it is with the mysteries of our religion as with wholesome pills for the sick, which swallowed whole have the virtue to cure, but chewed, are for the most part cast up again without effect.”
I pretty much chewed on the pill until it dissolved.
“But how do you explain the existence of the universe?” I’m sometimes asked.
I don’t. The universe is mysterious to me. But I don’t see the point of trying to explain one mystery by invoking another.
Being out as an atheist is often more difficult than being out as a gay person. I was reminded of that last week, when I was attending a gay pride dinner event at which I was the keynote speaker. A middle-aged woman approached me in the buffet line and claimed to be one of my biggest fans. She was gushing about my DVD when the conversation turned to religion. I mentioned in passing that I’m a non-believer.
She stopped abruptly, and seemed to turn pale. “Non-believer as in…?”
“As in, I don’t believe in God.”
(Long, awkward pause, during which she stared at me with an expression one might direct toward someone who has suddenly been covered in dogshit.)
“Well,” she finally said unconvincingly, “I still like your columns.”
I can understand why some believers would be disappointed to learn that I’m an atheist. If you like someone, and if you believe that his eternal salvation depends on his accepting a certain religious perspective, then you’ll be sorry to learn that he won’t be joining you in Paradise.
But this particular encounter was striking for two reasons. First, the woman in question was Jewish—a religious tradition that, unlike Christianity, doesn’t dwell on eternal salvation and doesn’t usually proselytize. Second, it seemed that her enjoyment of my columns somehow hinged on whether or not I shared her theistic worldview—despite the fact that I seldom write about religion.
I suppose what bugs me most is the double standard. Religious believers can make the most outrageous claims (God is three persons in one? His mother on earth is a virgin? Amy Grant can sing?) and yet meet with a polite reception. But if atheists boldly state their views, they’re accused of being arrogant.
There’s nothing arrogant about acknowledging what one DOESN’T know. Even the blunt claim “There is no God,” when uttered as a sincere assessment of the evidence (or lack thereof) strikes me as humble, not arrogant. To deny God is not to place oneself above God, but rather to acknowledge the fallible human state we all share. It should go without saying, but belief in an infallible God doesn’t render one infallible, even when discussing religion.
For the record, my departure from theism had nothing to do with being wounded by organized religion. On the contrary, I had a very positive experience of the church during my coming-out process.
And please don’t tell me that I’ve been burned by our opponents’ selective use of the Bible. Our opponents are selective, sure—but so are our allies. To put it in technical theological terms, the Bible contains some crazy shit (alongside lots of beautiful stuff, too). The difference between our religious opponents and our religious allies is not that one is selective and the other not, but that they select different parts.
I remain grateful for those religious allies. Their heart is in the right place, and as a strategic matter, I think we need them. But I also think we need a healthy dose of religious skepticism.
*************************************
John Corvino, Ph.D. is an author, speaker, and philosophy professor at Wayne State University in Detroit. His column “The Gay Moralist” appears weekly on 365gay.com. Read more about him at www.johncorvino.com.
John will be a volunteer faculty member this summer for Campus Pride’s Leadership Camp for GLBT students. For more about Campus Pride’s work, or to make a donation on John’s behalf to support this year’s program, visit http://www.campuspride.org/.
I am an avowed atheist, I make no apologies for it and I just don’t bother arguing with religious people about the existence of a deity. Why waste one’s energy and time on something that can’t be proved or disproved. Its pointless. I tend to rely on science than on a book of contradictions, flaws and conflicting statements that are subject to intepretation.
OK, I’ll rephrase. It seems Issac has MORE than a few issues….
Once you used the phrase, ‘F-You’, you proved you are no longer capable of participating in an intelligent discussion. You personally attacked Corvino, then turned around and attacked anyone who disagreed with you. ‘Attacked’ is a strong word, but appropriate when someone resorts to profanity to get their point across.
Perhaps people have been having issue with you for reasons other than being gay or an atheist. Please feel free to respond to get the last word if you wish, because I will no longer dignify your answers with a response.
John, you said you aren’t sure if there’s much difference between being an atheist and being an agnostic.
Well, I’m an agnostic; there’s practically a difference. How so? I let myself enjoy the idea of the existence of a loving God. Do I have to prove God? Nope. Do I have to disprove God? Nope. Will I be disheartened if such a God doesn’t exist at all? Maybe. Nevertheless, I’m okay with God not existing either. After all, nobody absolutely knows. So why state an absolute yes or no? Maybe feels more fun, liberating and limitless.
So if asked, “Do you believe God exists?” My response would be, “I don’t know, and I don’t have to know. But the idea sure makes me feel warm inside.”
John, there’s privilege and power that goes with others perceiving you belonging to their group. I like to hear you are a fan of being “out” by stating when you don’t belong to the assumed (possibly majority) identity–that takes guts.
When I don’t stick up for myself and allow a false perception I am relieved of the immediate pain of rejection and possible consequences. I can manipulate others by allowing them to perceive me as something I’m not. There’s a difference between the comfort of that dishonesty and what “being out” offers-feeling good about being real and the places it takes me. It allows others to be real about who they are. And I can trust myself.
The other scenario: in some situations being out is not good for ones safety. I wouldn’t want to be out as gay in Iraq or Jamaica, christian in some islamic countries right now…..or even out in a family that was homophobic without having a safe place to belong.
Your column makes me think about the times recently when I allowed others or even encouraged them to think I was something I’m not mostly by my silence-sometimes not gay or a believer. We all want to belong. Thanks for defining a group I’d like to belong to and for increasing the safety of my belonging to it.
My own experience is that in the gay subculture, it’s far more difficult to affirm one’s Christian faith than it is to affirm one’s unbelief.
Interesting column. I agree, I have never come out as an atheist to my family, though they’re well aware I’m gay.
One thing that seems to happen is that, if you are an atheist, others assume you must look down on them for believing. It’s similar to what happens to me as a vegetarian – people take my vegetarianism personally, as if it is a condemnation of others. I even have an uncle who’s horribly offended that I don’t own a car (I live in Boston, where I don’t need one, andd we have Zipcars when needed). Religion – or discussion of it – strikes even more deeply at these fragile and defensive egos/worldviews than vegetarianism or choosing not to own a car.
For my part, I started wondering about religion when I realized Santa didn’t exist. He was a made up character that everyone around me pretended existed. I just made a logical parallel to church – we were all gathering together and praising something that we never saw, and that we had no proof of. I know it’s not the best argument for atheism, but it was a profound and disturbing realization for little 8-year-old me.
LeRoar Said:
“isaac, calm down boy. he never said ‘coming out as an atheist is more difficult than coming out as gay’ he said it can offen be harder.”
Actually, he said precisely that:
“Being out as an atheist is often more difficult than being out as a gay person.”
Phil in Colorado Said:
“Seems Issac has a few issues…”
Fuck off Phil. I am entitled to my opinion and it is, in my experience, perfectly valid.
I am gay. I am an atheist. I have only ever encountered violence, bigotry and abuse as a result of my sexuality, and NEVER because of my religious beliefs. One of my closest friends, an atheist and a homosexual, was beaten last year so badly he was in hospital for nearly four months – absolutely nothing to do with his religious beliefs.
I have absolutely no doubt that being an atheist has its drawbacks. I have absolutely no doubt that it can make it more difficult to hold political office, that atheists can be subject to discrimination, that atheists can even be victims of abuse.
However, where are the laws saying that an atheist cannot marry? Oh, wait, there are none. In fact, there are civil marriages available to atheists. Can the same be said for gays? How often do you read about someone being beaten to death because of his/her lack of religious conviction? I know it happens, but compared to similar attacks on gays and lesbians it is rare.
I am not disputing that it is hard to be an atheist. I am not disputing that atheists face discrimination. I am saying that anyone who believes it is harder to be an atheist than it is to be gay is a fool, if for no other reason than you can choose to no express your lack of religious belief without suffering psychological harm, yet evidence indicates that repressing sexuality can lead to a variety of mental and emotional problems.
Sorry, Phil, but I really WISH the worst that has happened to me because of my sexuality was being shunned, but if I tell a Christian I am an atheist he might well turn his back on me, but if I tell that same Christian I am gay he is more likely to spit in my face before he turns away.
…and Rhonda goes a long way to prove Corvino’s point….
First of all, I think you are an agnostic rather than an atheist. You have doubts about the existence of a deity. Atheists DENY the existence of one, thereby affirming that that there is something to deny.
Your faith tradition is Catholic. Many people, including Christians, do not consider Catholicism Christian because it revolves around rituals rather than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. And for many Catholics doing the rituals is all the effect on their life God has. They can go back to being mean and hateful on Monday as long as they do the rituals on Sunday. I believe that there are Christians within the Catholic church, just like there are some Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses who are Christians, but that none of these are really Christian churches. They are taking the long way around to get to God and might die in the process.
Many gay people run away from Christianity because of the bad name that the fundamentalists have given to it. They will be punished because they are a stumbling block to potential believers and blaspheming the Holy Spirit. If they were actually walking the walk of Christ there would be no racism, sexism, classism, ethnic discrimination or homophobia. I shout it out: REAL CHRISTIANS DO NOT DISCRIMINATE. JESUS CHRIST WAS RADICAL LEFT.
Christianity is not religion. It is RELATIONSHIP, a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Catholics tend not to understand this. They would rather listen to a priest say Mass than allow God to have an influence on them.
God does not care what your religious background is. God does not care if you believe in the virgin birth or understand the Trinity. You can be anything you want to be and Jesus Christ will accept you, including gay.
All you have to do to be a Christian is pray the prayer:
Jesus come into my life
Thank you for forgiving my sins.
Make me the person you want me to be.
The first sentence is the most important one. Then God will start working on any problems you have with belieiving in God.
Real simple. Not like your priest training at all. No ignorant conservative politics. No hate. No rituals. Just you and Jesus.
Searching is part of learning. Denying helps you sort out the truth. God is real. God is waiting for you. God is working on you. You would not have written this column if you were not being prepared to receive Jesus. It would not have been important to you when there are so many other things going on in the world that you could have written about especially during Pride month. And I just now found your column. Never seen it before. God is good. God guides. God comes in just at the right time.
Seems Issac has a few issues…
Anyway, I can certainly see the validity of Corvino’s statement that being out as an atheist can be harder than being out as gay. When you come out to someone as gay, many times you’re challenging a belief, usually religious, that this person has had all of their life. But when you’re out as an athiest, you’re actually challenging their entire belief system.
By being a known athiest, even without saying anything, a deeply religious person can feel they’re being told that everything they’ve been taught about their life and afterlife is wrong. Essentially, everything this religious person ever believed in, would go down the toilet if they were to acknowedge what an atheist’s views are.
All of the atheists I know are sensitive enough to what other’s choose to believe, but they ARE treated badly. They may not be physically harrassed (at least the people I know), but they’ve been shunned many times by the people around them to the point of feeling like they don’t even exist, or not even worthy of existance. When I got punched in the gut once for being a ‘faggot’, at least the moron acknowleged my existance. I was able to deal with that. But I couldn’t imagine what it would be like to be so ignored and so shunned like some of my atheist friends are.
Ultimately this is just my opinion based on my personal experiences, as it is for Corvino. Intolerance of other’s beliefs and opinions is what has made it kind of a mess for all of us.
Thank you so much! Being out as athiest IS hard in this country. Christians especially play victim all the time when they are the majority.
I appreciate this article. There are places in America where it is more difficult to come out as atheist than it is to come out as gay. According to state constitutions, you can’t even legally hold public office in some states (TX, AR, MA, MD, NC, PA, SC, TN)if you’re an atheist.
It’s important to note that agnosticism is not mutually exclusive with atheism and theism.
Theism/atheism is about whether you believe in a god. Gnosticism/agnosticism is about whether you believe god can be proven or disproven.
An agnostic atheist believes gods can’t be proven or disproven, and therefore it makes no sense to believe in any. Besides, how could you pick one over the other?
An agnostic theist chooses to believe in a god without proof, and expecting none. This is a definition of faith, and is often regarded as a virtue, despite the fact that similar belief is generally regarded as nutty when applied to any other facet of life (conspiracies, alien visitations, etc.)
For some reason, I think the fact that you are athiest/agnostic makes me like you more. I myself am Agnostic and my mother has never been dissapointed by the fact that I am Gay but the fact that I don’t necessarily believe in God bothers her. Go figure.
I agree to some extent with Isaac. I am an agnostic and I have come out as gay and as an agnostic to many people over the years. Most of the time when I come out as agnostic they either respond with curiosity if they are religious or they respond neutrally if they are not religious. When I come out as gay the responses are very broad but often times include considerable negativity as many of us have experienced. So aside from my personal experiences with support the idea that coming out gay is often much more likely to produce a negative reaction than coming out agnostic, there is also the general evidence supporting this claim. Like Isaac already stated I have not heard of any state that has passed a constitutional amendment saying that only theists are allowed to marry. I have not heard of any prop 8 like votes that would take away civil rights from non-theists. Don’t get me wrong though. I understand that many people respond negatively to all non-theists. However until I see these people organizing and trying to turn all non-theists into second-class citizens, I don’t think it is reasonable to say that “Being out as an atheist is often more difficult than being out as a gay person.” I would also like to add that I know of several people who feel that there is a very large difference between atheism and agnosticism. A quick check of their definitions may have been a good idea before posting this.
isaac, calm down boy. he never said ‘coming out as an atheist is more difficult than coming out as gay’ he said it can offen be harder.
i agree with him too, although i guess it depends where you live. living in a large city, chicago, i rarely if ever have someone walk up to me and want to talk about my sexuality. if someone has a problem with it, they’ve kept it to themselves. sure, i’ve had ‘fag’ yelled at my from a passing car.. maybe like 8 years ago.
i’m not dismissing that in fact the GLBT community is very often the victim of bigots; but at least in my personal experience, i’ve recieved much more headache from being atheist.