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Loading ...Corvino: Coming out skeptical
I’m a big proponent of being out, not just about being gay, but about any personally significant trait whose revelation subverts problematic assumptions. For me, that includes being out as an atheist.
“Atheist or agnostic?” I’m often asked.For practical purposes, I’m not sure that there’s much of a difference. Do I believe that it’s POSSIBLE that there’s a deity of some sort? Sure. I also believe that it’s possible that there’s intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. (It’s a pretty damn big universe.) But I don’t have good evidence for either, don’t believe in either, and don’t make life decisions on the basis of the vague possibility of either.
I wasn’t always an atheist. Indeed, during college I joined a religious order and had planned to enter the priesthood. This fact surprises people, though it shouldn’t. Taking religion seriously enough to subject it to scrutiny is one common path to religious skepticism. As Thomas Hobbes wrote in the seventeenth century,
“For it is with the mysteries of our religion as with wholesome pills for the sick, which swallowed whole have the virtue to cure, but chewed, are for the most part cast up again without effect.”
I pretty much chewed on the pill until it dissolved.
“But how do you explain the existence of the universe?” I’m sometimes asked.
I don’t. The universe is mysterious to me. But I don’t see the point of trying to explain one mystery by invoking another.
Being out as an atheist is often more difficult than being out as a gay person. I was reminded of that last week, when I was attending a gay pride dinner event at which I was the keynote speaker. A middle-aged woman approached me in the buffet line and claimed to be one of my biggest fans. She was gushing about my DVD when the conversation turned to religion. I mentioned in passing that I’m a non-believer.
She stopped abruptly, and seemed to turn pale. “Non-believer as in…?”
“As in, I don’t believe in God.”
(Long, awkward pause, during which she stared at me with an expression one might direct toward someone who has suddenly been covered in dogshit.)
“Well,” she finally said unconvincingly, “I still like your columns.”
I can understand why some believers would be disappointed to learn that I’m an atheist. If you like someone, and if you believe that his eternal salvation depends on his accepting a certain religious perspective, then you’ll be sorry to learn that he won’t be joining you in Paradise.
But this particular encounter was striking for two reasons. First, the woman in question was Jewish—a religious tradition that, unlike Christianity, doesn’t dwell on eternal salvation and doesn’t usually proselytize. Second, it seemed that her enjoyment of my columns somehow hinged on whether or not I shared her theistic worldview—despite the fact that I seldom write about religion.
I suppose what bugs me most is the double standard. Religious believers can make the most outrageous claims (God is three persons in one? His mother on earth is a virgin? Amy Grant can sing?) and yet meet with a polite reception. But if atheists boldly state their views, they’re accused of being arrogant.
There’s nothing arrogant about acknowledging what one DOESN’T know. Even the blunt claim “There is no God,” when uttered as a sincere assessment of the evidence (or lack thereof) strikes me as humble, not arrogant. To deny God is not to place oneself above God, but rather to acknowledge the fallible human state we all share. It should go without saying, but belief in an infallible God doesn’t render one infallible, even when discussing religion.
For the record, my departure from theism had nothing to do with being wounded by organized religion. On the contrary, I had a very positive experience of the church during my coming-out process.
And please don’t tell me that I’ve been burned by our opponents’ selective use of the Bible. Our opponents are selective, sure—but so are our allies. To put it in technical theological terms, the Bible contains some crazy shit (alongside lots of beautiful stuff, too). The difference between our religious opponents and our religious allies is not that one is selective and the other not, but that they select different parts.
I remain grateful for those religious allies. Their heart is in the right place, and as a strategic matter, I think we need them. But I also think we need a healthy dose of religious skepticism.
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John Corvino, Ph.D. is an author, speaker, and philosophy professor at Wayne State University in Detroit. His column “The Gay Moralist” appears weekly on 365gay.com. Read more about him at www.johncorvino.com.
John will be a volunteer faculty member this summer for Campus Pride’s Leadership Camp for GLBT students. For more about Campus Pride’s work, or to make a donation on John’s behalf to support this year’s program, visit http://www.campuspride.org/.
You must have been taking crazy pills if you seriously believe that coming out as an atheist is harder that coming out as gay. So one woman looked at you funny when you said you didn’t believe in God. Wow! Tell me – how many people are routinely harassed, beaten, insulted and threatened because they don’t believe in God? And does that number come even remotely close to those who suffer the same ordeal for being gay?
Oh poor you. Someone looked at you funny because you’re an atheist. It must have been SO traumatic for you!
Mr Corvino, you have once again shown how utterly out of touch you truly are with the gay community. The vast majority of gay men and women don’t give a flying crap about what you or anyone else believes – what they care about is the attitude people adopt towards homosexuality, which may or may not be related to their religious convictions.
I’m sure there are a handful of people who would care enough to look at you funny if you told them you are an atheist, but how many would spit at you as you walk down the street? How many would threaten your life? How many would attempt to deny you the right to marry? To adopt a child? Even to live?
I’m sure your heart is in the right place, but when I see statements like:
“Being out as an atheist is often more difficult than being out as a gay person.”
I have to wonder what really qualifies you to speak for the gay community. If you genuinely believe that being an atheist is harder than being gay you must not live on the same planet as the rest of us, because the vast majority of us here are anxiously looking forward to the day when your statement is the truth for the rest of us, yet there are very few who can see that day coming.
Shame on you for making such a ludicrous statement and belittling the suffering of LGBT people everywhere.
Coming out athiest, in my mind, is somewhat like coming out sane in a mental ward.
It seems like Isaac is upset. As for the column, I understand what you’re saying. Its hard enough being gay, but when coupled with a lack of belief in a deity the “shit hits the fan” so to speak. Alot of people only take others seriously if they have some sort of religious view, if not they usually start shunning the person(however politely) and attributing the lack of belief to arrogance or the “devil”.
I understand what he’s saying, Josh, but to make the claim that coming out as an atheist is more difficult than coming out as gay is not just ridiculous, it is an insult to the LGBT community.
I’m sure there are some ultra-religious parents who might reject their atheist children, but how many atheist kids get beaten and harassed at school? How many atheists are routinely harassed on the street? How many atheist-bashing attacks do you read about? How often do you hear about atheists being denied basic human rights?
I don’t doubt that being an atheist in America is difficult, but to suggest it is more difficult than being gay is simply offensive.
Whoa, Isaac don’t displace your rage against the Democrats and Obama administration on Corvino. He is pointing something out that I have notice too. If you are atheist (gay or straight) suddenly your are immoral and the scum of the earth (kinda like being GLBT). And polls have shown that Atheist are most hated group in America (yup more than blacks, Jews, and gays), but most just don’t ‘come out’ and state their beliefs.
I started to question religion when I was 12. I asked at a bible study class when we were going over the adam and eve story why it was always the woman’s fault (the bible is very misogynistic). It seemed like a valid question, but the lady in charge just ignored me and continued with the lesson.
By 14 I stated I did not believe in organized religion. To which my mom replied “no you don’t”. My mom was very supportive of me being a lesbian, but when I came out as atheist at 16 my mom was horrified. After that she kept trying to get me baptized.
In college I re-evaluated my views on religion because you realize that at 16 you might not know everything. I am still an atheist and proudly state it. My sister (also gay) is also an atheist. My poor mother keeps trying get us to go to her church that accepts gays to show us that religion doesn’t hate gays.
I also agree if you express non-belief suddenly you are arrogant and that has always annoyed me.
One Word, Corvino, Amen.
Oh I beg to differ. There are currently hundreds of LGBT elected officials in the US, even in the reddest of areas. Being gay is clearly not an obstacle to being elected to office in this country. Try running for office and professing disbelief in a supreme being. I can think of only one member of congress brave enough to take that step. He holds a seat that is very safe; otherwise I doubt he’d be so forthcoming with his beliefs. And while the laws no longer hold force, there are states that have laws prohibit anyone not willing to profess belief in a supreme being from running for office; there is no such prohibition for being gay.
I agree that as a practical matter, we are more likely to be subject to persecution and ridicule on a day-to-day basis, but being an atheist, and being public about being an atheist is an extraordinary challenge.
god? whats that? Dog spelled backwards….
alot seem to make that spelling mistake!
I’m with you, John. I take it a step further and think that the world just might be a lot better off without organized religion…it seems to do more harm than good. But I tend to keep that opinion/idea under my hat…that’s too hot for polite company.
>“But how do you explain the existence of the universe?” I’m sometimes asked.
I just *love* this! “I don’t understand something. So, let me make up a story about it!”
And I’ve got nothing against stories (I was an English Lit student in college). But they’re *stories*!
>You must have been taking crazy pills if you seriously believe that coming out as an atheist is harder that coming out as gay.
I am an openly gay man in the metro Boston area of Massachusetts. I’d *much* rather say that I’m gay than to say “I think organized religions do more harm than good and that we’d all be better off without them” at a party where I didn’t know people. In the area of the country where I live, that much of a direct challenge against religious practice is *much* more of a hot-button topic than being gay.
Although, I will say this…it’s surprising to run into as many people as we do who feel similarly. My husband was reading “God is not great” on the benches in Provincetown center in front of town hall, and a *number* of people stopped to say that they had read the book or that they were on board with the thesis.
Kudos Corvino for speaking your mind on this difficult topic and being open about something else in society that is often looked at with the same amount of hate and intolerance as being gay. Isaac, I know what you are saying but I think part of the reason that more horrible things don’t happen to Atheists is because they can easier hide their beliefs in different scenarios or sudenly portend to have a belief in god. I grew up as the son of a very outspoken Atheist father who has been an activist in the chicago area. Growing up, I was threatened, harassed, picked on, had death threats made against myself and my family…the list goes on and on. Even though I am not a self-proclaimed atheist, I was denied a job in a suburban school district because of who my father is and who the superintendent believed I was going to be even though I had never made any claims about religion in any form. I even had signed the contract and was preparing to teach in the fall of ‘06 when the superintendent found out and rescinded the contract. So yes, it does happen to Atheists too, just like it happens to gays. It’s simply not as promenient.
In the end, I did try to sue but unfortunately got nowhere because the district has a very powerful tax base and the EEOC basically said that they can only fight instances of discrimination that are outright blatent. Their definition of blatent: “I’m firing you because you are black and I don’t like black people working here.” A percieved Atheist (not even an official Atheist) being fired was hardly worth their time apparently.
You are not out of touch with anything, but my personal experience has been the opposite. I came out as an atheist as soon as I “converted” to atheism, at 14. However, I until last year to come out as gay, at 16.
And Ditto to what Bob said. It’s true. There are laws in states that do prohibit you from being in office if you do not profess a belief in a higher being. Sad…but true. You really cannot be an open Athiest and hold public office in this country. Talk about political suicide.
John, even in our crazy country, I tend to think that in most cases, it is harder to come out as gay than it is as a non-believer. Essentially, for the vast majority of our benighted countrymen, to admit to being gay is equivalent and inseparable from being godless. In other words, once you come out as gay, you are immediately seen as atheist/imbalanced/liberal/Democrat/un-wo-manly/hell-bound. Conversely, when you come out as a non-believer, you are not automatically assumed to be gay.
For that reason, I’d say it’s worse to come out as gay, since the associated assumptions are going to include a lack of religion (unless it’s Satanism).
Otherwise, thank you for all the info you used to back up your argument- it was interesting stuff.
As for the peanut gallery’s comments, I get a little upset when you’re accused of being out of touch with gay issues or homophobic. I don’t think of you as an activist – and thus expect little activism from you. Instead, I see your column as a place where philosophical issues (by definition removed from day-to-day life) that tries to look at some of the deeper, pan-human intellectual issues that our community would be wise to consider.
I am lucky to live in Canada, as it helps me realize that once equality is achieved on a federal level, much of this acrimonious infighting melts away, and that the “community” feels more comfortable entertaining a broader range of views. When we achieve equality in the US, some will think it will have been despite commentators like you. I happen to think that equality will become reality BECAUSE of people like you: winning a war is not possible without intellectual and philosophical backing. This does not diminish the role of the fighters who use different forms of inspiration (rage) to carry out the struggle. Infighting, however, is a distraction. As I see it, if you’re looking for fire breathing pro-gay activism, there are plenty of places to look. Your column, however, is not one of them. And for that, I’m thankful.
Whoa, Isaac don’t displace your rage against the Democrats and Obama administration on Corvino. While I agree that atheist may not be victims of violence, that does not mean they are any less discriminated against.
Corvino is pointing something out that I have notice too. If you are atheist (gay or straight) suddenly your are immoral and the scum of the earth (kinda like being GLBT). And polls have shown that Atheist are most hated group in America (yup more than blacks, Jews, and gays), but most just don’t ‘come out’ and state their beliefs.
I started to question religion when I was 12. I asked at a bible study class when we were going over the adam and eve story why it was always the woman’s fault (the bible is very misogynistic). It seemed like a valid question, but the lady in charge just ignored me and continued with the lesson.
By 14 I stated I did not believe in organized religion. To which my mom replied “no you don’t”. My mom was very supportive of me being a lesbian, but when I came out as atheist at 16 my mom was horrified. After that she kept trying to get me baptized.
In college I re-evaluated my views on religion because you realize that at 16 you might not know everything. I am still an atheist and proudly state it. My sister (also gay) is also an atheist. My poor mother keeps trying get us to go to her church that accepts gays to show us that religion doesn’t hate gays.
Everyone keeps saying that religion is not bad, it just people who use it. They point out that the bible has been used to discriminate against a lot of people. And that is my problem with religion, it always seems to be catching up when it comes to human rights. And god as described is very anthropomorphic. To me we created god in our image not the other way around.
I also agree if you express non-belief suddenly you are arrogant and that has always annoyed me.