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	<title>Comments on: Besen: Prop 8 and race</title>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/opinion/besen-prop-8-and-race/comment-page-12/#comment-30459</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 04:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4121#comment-30459</guid>
		<description>Blaming lack of education.  Interesting, yet an  overly libral rational that is incorrect.  Just FYI most mormons complete high school and get some form of higher education.  No, the fact is there were two types that supported prop.8. One group that feared it was against the biblical defination of marriage.  Then there are just the fag haters.  The reason the black population voted overwelpingly for prop. 8 is the later.  They are RACIST plain and simple.  Anybody that doesnt believe me go into the black community and listen to how they talk about Asains, gays, hispanics, and jews.  The black community has always had a hypocritical defination of racism.  Their support for Prop. 8 just shows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blaming lack of education.  Interesting, yet an  overly libral rational that is incorrect.  Just FYI most mormons complete high school and get some form of higher education.  No, the fact is there were two types that supported prop.8. One group that feared it was against the biblical defination of marriage.  Then there are just the fag haters.  The reason the black population voted overwelpingly for prop. 8 is the later.  They are RACIST plain and simple.  Anybody that doesnt believe me go into the black community and listen to how they talk about Asains, gays, hispanics, and jews.  The black community has always had a hypocritical defination of racism.  Their support for Prop. 8 just shows.</p>
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		<title>By: Riggs4Me</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/opinion/besen-prop-8-and-race/comment-page-12/#comment-30012</link>
		<dc:creator>Riggs4Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4121#comment-30012</guid>
		<description>Wayne:

You are right in that gays should not be blamed for bigotry in ANY community. It is blaming the victim. 

However on the other hand you stereotype African Americans in your article considerably. 

If you honestly mean when you say &quot;I am most concerned in figuring out how to succeed in the future.&quot; I suggest you watch Marlon Riggs&#039; (a famous African American gay poet/filmmaker) documentary &quot;Black is... Black Ain&#039;t&quot;. This should give you the CORRECT background information for why such a large percentage of African Americans voted against Prop. 8.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne:</p>
<p>You are right in that gays should not be blamed for bigotry in ANY community. It is blaming the victim. </p>
<p>However on the other hand you stereotype African Americans in your article considerably. </p>
<p>If you honestly mean when you say &#8220;I am most concerned in figuring out how to succeed in the future.&#8221; I suggest you watch Marlon Riggs&#8217; (a famous African American gay poet/filmmaker) documentary &#8220;Black is&#8230; Black Ain&#8217;t&#8221;. This should give you the CORRECT background information for why such a large percentage of African Americans voted against Prop. 8.</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/opinion/besen-prop-8-and-race/comment-page-12/#comment-29636</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 19:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4121#comment-29636</guid>
		<description>Monster 62 Said:
I don’t know why that West Hollywood crowd are all pissed off at blacks because they voted 70% in support of proposition 8. ------------


I just don&#039;t see the logic behind blaming gay people for anti-gay bigotry within the African American community. Talk about blaming the victim. So it&#039;s gay people&#039;s fault because of rampant bigotry within the Mormon and African American communities? Huh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Monster 62 Said:<br />
I don’t know why that West Hollywood crowd are all pissed off at blacks because they voted 70% in support of proposition 8. &#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t see the logic behind blaming gay people for anti-gay bigotry within the African American community. Talk about blaming the victim. So it&#8217;s gay people&#8217;s fault because of rampant bigotry within the Mormon and African American communities? Huh?</p>
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		<title>By: Monster 62</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/opinion/besen-prop-8-and-race/comment-page-12/#comment-29632</link>
		<dc:creator>Monster 62</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4121#comment-29632</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know why that West Hollywood crowd are all pissed off at blacks because they voted 70% in support of proposition 8.  The reaction they are having toward blacks, etc. is &quot;exactly&quot; why they voted the way they did.

Everyone knows those Gays up in Weho are some of the most &quot;racist&quot; group of people unless it benefits &quot;them&quot;.  Here&#039;s some advice West Hollywood Group or Gay&#039;s.  How about trying to treat people the way you want to be treated.  

If you all want Prop 8 passed one day and get the support -- how about getting the support of these other &quot;groups&quot; and help them understand why they should support your cause.  

Calling people names and using the &quot;slave derogatory word&quot; won&#039;t get you anywhere.  If anything it will make people vote against you.  Final word, take &quot;no one&#039;s vote&quot; for granite.  

Hatred and ignorance has no place in America anymore! If you want &quot;America&quot; to change -- you have to start in your own house first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why that West Hollywood crowd are all pissed off at blacks because they voted 70% in support of proposition 8.  The reaction they are having toward blacks, etc. is &#8220;exactly&#8221; why they voted the way they did.</p>
<p>Everyone knows those Gays up in Weho are some of the most &#8220;racist&#8221; group of people unless it benefits &#8220;them&#8221;.  Here&#8217;s some advice West Hollywood Group or Gay&#8217;s.  How about trying to treat people the way you want to be treated.  </p>
<p>If you all want Prop 8 passed one day and get the support &#8212; how about getting the support of these other &#8220;groups&#8221; and help them understand why they should support your cause.  </p>
<p>Calling people names and using the &#8220;slave derogatory word&#8221; won&#8217;t get you anywhere.  If anything it will make people vote against you.  Final word, take &#8220;no one&#8217;s vote&#8221; for granite.  </p>
<p>Hatred and ignorance has no place in America anymore! If you want &#8220;America&#8221; to change &#8212; you have to start in your own house first.</p>
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		<title>By: TANK</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/opinion/besen-prop-8-and-race/comment-page-12/#comment-29325</link>
		<dc:creator>TANK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4121#comment-29325</guid>
		<description>As per usual, I am in agreement; especially with Mr. Besen&#039;s comments to the unprincipled knee jerk screamheads who cry racism whenever their fantasy of victimhood and innocence is somehow upset.  Playing six degrees of racism only works when there&#039;s actual racism at play; clearly not here.  Don&#039;t trivialize a legitimate problem and obscure another with your baseless, self important accusations.  Black and white only works for religious bigots and bigots in general, folks...  I appeal the better angels of your character in martialing a sober, mature response that isn&#039;t so nuanced with clarifications and nonsequiturs masquerading as digressions that it makes a point while not deteriorating into fatuous name calling that obscures the legitimate issues Mr. Besen has drawn your attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As per usual, I am in agreement; especially with Mr. Besen&#8217;s comments to the unprincipled knee jerk screamheads who cry racism whenever their fantasy of victimhood and innocence is somehow upset.  Playing six degrees of racism only works when there&#8217;s actual racism at play; clearly not here.  Don&#8217;t trivialize a legitimate problem and obscure another with your baseless, self important accusations.  Black and white only works for religious bigots and bigots in general, folks&#8230;  I appeal the better angels of your character in martialing a sober, mature response that isn&#8217;t so nuanced with clarifications and nonsequiturs masquerading as digressions that it makes a point while not deteriorating into fatuous name calling that obscures the legitimate issues Mr. Besen has drawn your attention.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynne Louise</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/opinion/besen-prop-8-and-race/comment-page-12/#comment-29242</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynne Louise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4121#comment-29242</guid>
		<description>I believe that people must be shown the human side of the problem of not being allowed to be married.  For example, show ads that show actual stories that demonstrate inhumane treatment.  One such example is a couple who had been together for 50 years, raised children together, yet one was not allowed to be at the death bed of the other in the end.  Other stories of not being allowed to inherit, or having the young children that you have raised as your own taken away after the unexpected death of the &quot;real&quot; parent.  These types of stories demonstrate why marriage is necessary to protect rights.  Every day somewhere in the USA autracities are commited toward gays in these ways.  Stories that can be understood and which can evoke empathy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that people must be shown the human side of the problem of not being allowed to be married.  For example, show ads that show actual stories that demonstrate inhumane treatment.  One such example is a couple who had been together for 50 years, raised children together, yet one was not allowed to be at the death bed of the other in the end.  Other stories of not being allowed to inherit, or having the young children that you have raised as your own taken away after the unexpected death of the &#8220;real&#8221; parent.  These types of stories demonstrate why marriage is necessary to protect rights.  Every day somewhere in the USA autracities are commited toward gays in these ways.  Stories that can be understood and which can evoke empathy.</p>
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		<title>By: Quasi</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/opinion/besen-prop-8-and-race/comment-page-11/#comment-29239</link>
		<dc:creator>Quasi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4121#comment-29239</guid>
		<description>I am old, and tired and so busy keeping up with the basic demands of everyday life that I do not have the time and energy to educate (&quot;teach out&quot; if you will) another couple thousand evil ignorant bigots. It is like putting lipstick on that pig: It looks awful on the pig and it makes the pig very irritated. And I just don&#039;t want to waste my precious time throwing pearls before swine; they will not appreciate that gesture.

I just do not see that we can change the minds of all those who believe otherwise than pro-gay, and I cannot wait for a new generation to grow into civility. Were it not for the courts, the &quot;Negro&quot; people as we called them in the 1960&#039;s would still be facing fire hoses, a place at the back of a bus and separate schools and restrooms. I never saw any Hispanic people till I went to California when I was 27, so I don&#039;t know what they had to face in their dioscrimination, but I surely got tired of the Latino graffiti all over the place in the 1970&#039;s and 1980&#039;s. And today here in Florida, we hear of gang-related killings all the time.

So if not by the court, how long till we get our rights by vote? I hate to think I will be dead and long gone before that happens. I have perhaps 15 to 20 years left in my life, at best. When you are young, life is eternal; when old, death is just around the corner. I feel I need the benefits of CIVIL marriage now, not later. Sorry to be selfish about this, but is that not what this marriage issue is all about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am old, and tired and so busy keeping up with the basic demands of everyday life that I do not have the time and energy to educate (&#8221;teach out&#8221; if you will) another couple thousand evil ignorant bigots. It is like putting lipstick on that pig: It looks awful on the pig and it makes the pig very irritated. And I just don&#8217;t want to waste my precious time throwing pearls before swine; they will not appreciate that gesture.</p>
<p>I just do not see that we can change the minds of all those who believe otherwise than pro-gay, and I cannot wait for a new generation to grow into civility. Were it not for the courts, the &#8220;Negro&#8221; people as we called them in the 1960&#8217;s would still be facing fire hoses, a place at the back of a bus and separate schools and restrooms. I never saw any Hispanic people till I went to California when I was 27, so I don&#8217;t know what they had to face in their dioscrimination, but I surely got tired of the Latino graffiti all over the place in the 1970&#8217;s and 1980&#8217;s. And today here in Florida, we hear of gang-related killings all the time.</p>
<p>So if not by the court, how long till we get our rights by vote? I hate to think I will be dead and long gone before that happens. I have perhaps 15 to 20 years left in my life, at best. When you are young, life is eternal; when old, death is just around the corner. I feel I need the benefits of CIVIL marriage now, not later. Sorry to be selfish about this, but is that not what this marriage issue is all about?</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/opinion/besen-prop-8-and-race/comment-page-11/#comment-29233</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 22:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4121#comment-29233</guid>
		<description>I have said for the better part of two years, that gay people are equal only in the paying or their taxes. As I mentioned on the first day of the passing of prop. 8, we should all withhold our taxes, they can&#039;t can&#039;t put us all in jail.

The truth of the matter is no amount of trying to educate any one will change their mind on things.  Desegregation came through the courts.  Try to convince the white power brothers to accept black people, yea right.  

We should start a petition to tax the church, they invested much money in prop. 8 and have crossed the line in the separation of church and state by financial political campaigning.

If religious organizations can be political, and tax exempt, we, as their political targets should be tax exempt as well, after all that&#039;s the reason the patriots threw the tea in the Boston Harbor, taxation without representation.

I believe we have to be more radical, how long are we going to turn the other cheek?  When they asked Jesus how many times shall I forgive my brother, seven times.  Jesus seventy times seven, we have gone way beyond that mark, It&#039;s time to radicalize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have said for the better part of two years, that gay people are equal only in the paying or their taxes. As I mentioned on the first day of the passing of prop. 8, we should all withhold our taxes, they can&#8217;t can&#8217;t put us all in jail.</p>
<p>The truth of the matter is no amount of trying to educate any one will change their mind on things.  Desegregation came through the courts.  Try to convince the white power brothers to accept black people, yea right.  </p>
<p>We should start a petition to tax the church, they invested much money in prop. 8 and have crossed the line in the separation of church and state by financial political campaigning.</p>
<p>If religious organizations can be political, and tax exempt, we, as their political targets should be tax exempt as well, after all that&#8217;s the reason the patriots threw the tea in the Boston Harbor, taxation without representation.</p>
<p>I believe we have to be more radical, how long are we going to turn the other cheek?  When they asked Jesus how many times shall I forgive my brother, seven times.  Jesus seventy times seven, we have gone way beyond that mark, It&#8217;s time to radicalize.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/opinion/besen-prop-8-and-race/comment-page-11/#comment-29227</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 22:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4121#comment-29227</guid>
		<description>Race and ethnicity doesn’t have has much to do with it as we would like to think.   Yes it&#039;s true that African Americans and Hispanics do not deal well with the subject of homosexuality in their communities.   But the truth is that their vote it’s mostly influence by their faith, and that some heterosexuals feel they have this one right [marriage] over the LGBT community.   Even if they have family and close friends who are gay, when most people get into the voting booth they vote their faith and traditions, white, black, or brown, educated or not.  We will prevail eventually, but it most likely will be a ruling from the Supreme Court saying that local and state governments cannot make laws prohibiting the rights of a single minority group when such rights are given to the rest of the people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Race and ethnicity doesn’t have has much to do with it as we would like to think.   Yes it&#8217;s true that African Americans and Hispanics do not deal well with the subject of homosexuality in their communities.   But the truth is that their vote it’s mostly influence by their faith, and that some heterosexuals feel they have this one right [marriage] over the LGBT community.   Even if they have family and close friends who are gay, when most people get into the voting booth they vote their faith and traditions, white, black, or brown, educated or not.  We will prevail eventually, but it most likely will be a ruling from the Supreme Court saying that local and state governments cannot make laws prohibiting the rights of a single minority group when such rights are given to the rest of the people.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/opinion/besen-prop-8-and-race/comment-page-11/#comment-29192</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4121#comment-29192</guid>
		<description>Wayne...when will white liberals stop making excuses for black bigotry.  We fought along with other minorities for their rights and now they spit on ours.  The only minorities we should support are our own brothers and sisters.  To hell with all the other minorities...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne&#8230;when will white liberals stop making excuses for black bigotry.  We fought along with other minorities for their rights and now they spit on ours.  The only minorities we should support are our own brothers and sisters.  To hell with all the other minorities&#8230;</p>
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