Subscribe to Breaking News
Loading ...Besen: Prop 8 and race
I can understand why white gay people are angry. I certainly am.
But let’s take a step back and look at this dispassionately. I believe our failure with the African American vote (70 percent voted in favor of Prop. 
has more to do with education levels than race. In general, people with lower levels of education – of any race – do not vote for gay rights. White people are twice as likely to graduate college as black people. This accounts for the difference by race on Prop. 8.
Uneducated people – black, white and Hispanic – often derive their power from physical strength. They perceive being gay as weak and antithetical to real manhood. By voicing support for gay rights, they lose status and often fear rivals may perceive them as gay. The easiest way to gain status is dissing faggots. I see this attitude all the time in Brooklyn – in the gym and on the basketball court, where I often play. (Not the best sample, I realize this)
Meanwhile, educated people of all races gain power by outsmarting opponents – not beating them up. This creates a safe space to support gay rights and not lose social status. (Unfortunately, the fact that the conservative black church is a central organizing point for politics makes even educated blacks less likely to vote for gay rights. But, this is secondary to education levels.)
It is understandable that black support for anti-gay efforts drives white gay people nuts. It is difficult to understand how people affected by bigotry can promote bigotry – as if they are selfish people who learned all the wrong lessons from the civil rights movement. But, remember, uneducated people – of all races – are not students of history. They react to the environment around them, which often rewards homophobia.
(Compounding this perception problem is that the vast majority of overt homophobia experienced by urban gays comes from black people. In places like New York City, you almost never hear a white person say “faggot”. But, we hear this from uneducated blacks too often. This makes the problem seem worse than it is. We often forget that we moved to places like New York to escape uneducated whites in rural areas that were just as openly homophobic. In other words – it is about education – not race.)
A few of possible solutions to ponder:
1) We must air public service announcements with people like former basketball star Charles Barkley – who is a tough guy and supporter of same-sex marriage. We must show masculine African American figures who are supportive, every chance we get. Obama is also a huge help, because he is inclusive and is the ultimate example of power though academic success. His leadership will improve our fate.
2) We must work to raise the education levels of all Americans – which will lead to less homophobia of all races. The fact that we have so many African Americans in prison – and not graduating is a legacy of racism and a national disgrace. This must change.
3) We must also have substantive discussion with the African American community – as many of you have suggested. But, until we raise education levels, there is only so much we can do to win support of urban blacks – or rural whites. In other words, scholarships for urban blacks and rural whites are as effective as spending money on education specifically about gay rights. Keep this in mind.
4) While I recognize that there are many supportive pro-gay black churches, as long as this is the central organizing place for black politics, this is not helpful for gay rights. Alternative organizing places for aspiring black leaders must be strengthened.
These are my thoughts….I’m certainly open to your ideas and especially your criticism of my theory, as I am most concerned in figuring out how to succeed in the future.
Michael said: “The reality remains, however, that the bulk of people voting in favor of prop 8 were older, uneducated, white, christians from inland California.”
I can confirm that. My area is heavily fundamentalist and racially dominated primarily by whites and secondarily by Hispanics. Both white and Hispanic neighborhoods were saturated with “Yes on 8″ signs, and the entirely white city council even passed a resolution, quickly and without debate, endorsing Prop 8.
I don’t live in CA, but I would have voted no to 8. I’m black and I know that you can not change people who are bigoted against you. It’s why HIV has so much a hold on AAs. Black LGBTs are afraid. It is not education. So just ignore them and try to overcome anyway without. You already knew this.
Education levels? Stop with the PC rationalizing. Blacks know first-hand what it is like to be deprived of civil rights. They are intelligent people. It does not take a formal education to have empathy for others. I hold them responsible for this vote. Stop making excuses for them!
For years I’ve said hello to any black person I encountered, to let them know that, as a white man, I was not a “crackerfied” hater. For years I have worked to help blacks with school and to ignore racial hatred in our midst. For years I have taught black youths in an innercity school, and let black gay youths know it is OK for them to be who they are. But this lefty bleeding heart liberal gay will no longer say good morning to black strangers; I will no longer listen to blacks without feeling bitterness for this vote. I am saddened that after over 40 years of supporting the civil rights movement, I can no longer count myself as a friend. You have demeaned me by placing your freedom to marry above mine. So you lost one supporter…big deal. As your churches keep telling us, “what would Jesus do?” I’m a lesser Christion since I cannot bring myself to forgive you as my enemy. Don’t pray for me…look in your own heart and decide if you are treating me and mine as you wish to be treated. And the next time an old gay men passes you without an acknowledgement, you just might have brought it on yourself.
To excuse bigotry and stupidity by pointing to lack of education in a group of people is very much a twisted form of racism. When Dutch women got the vote the Christian right wing parties profited. Gays who have been campagning for Obama and badmouthing Mac Cain are just as stupid as Dutch gays who voted progressive. We are now stuck with a group in our population who think they have the godgiven right to bash gays, beat women and soon even the right to have people prosecuted if their religious feelings are hurt.
Obama got the gay vote without giving any guaranty that he would better the existence of gay people. He sat in a fundamentalist black church for 20 years without any problem. He probably will choose a fundamentalist christian anti-gay and anti-abortion judge for your high court. It could be a woman, even a black woman with a handicap, but those are no guarantee for progressive thought. Just as higher levels of education is no guarantee for being progressive, or being progressive is equal to pro-gay. Neither is a better economic perspective. Just look at Poland, where a rise in wealth goes together with a rise in anti-gay behaviour in the population.
If your democrats would have wanted to further equality for gays they would have had the chance for years. You were plain stupid in voting Obama.
People, this is based on ONE exit poll.
Exit polls are not SCIENCE. Exit polls told us John Kerry would win.
Here’s the problem. The “70%” black vote is based on an exit poll. Exit polls are often unreliable, the last pre-election Field poll which listed only 49% of blacks voting Yes on 8, and I believe Field also conducted the exit poll for CNN. Polls in general are hard to measure reliable, but as a black person highly involved in the “No on 8″ effort, I do believe that, on this issue, blacks in California were not THAT much different than the largely Catholic Latino demographic, or the family-oriented, traditional Asian groups in California; all groups that have been disenfranchised by California government in the past. The Yes voters voted on religion/tradition, and the churches believe that they own the concept of marriage.
When the anti-gay-marriage amendment passed in my home state of Michigan, the black communities in and around Detroit pretty much reflected the same opinion as the rest of the state. Wayne county (which is mostly Detroit, which is 90% black) voted 54% for the measure while statewide the winning total was 58%, and let me tell you, the California black community is FAR more progressive than the Michigan black community. The black population is no more homophobic than the population as a whole.
Learn more on faulty polling at:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/7/34645/1235/704/656272
I have just spent 2 months going to a catholic university in the US. Not being of american origin, but form the heart of europe, I was convinced, that I would be faced with extreme prejudice. Being gay, being protestant, being liberal.
Fact is this: I have never met more open minded people, who would present and discuss their opinion without judging (or necessarily accepting) the other point of view. Yet everyone listened.
So my point in this debate would be this: Don’t underestimate people.
You elected a black president. 50 years ago, this would hae been unthinkable. Gay rights are so much younger, than the constant struggle of african americans, whose history of oppression is just as long and sad as our own.
Young voters did not vote against our cause, and those our the future.
Hope floats, but it doesn’t shoot upwards like a rocket. Give people time to accept, understand and grow.
And don’t expect them to throw what they have been told a lifetime overboard in a jiff. It is a big step for people and whether we agree on the reason for that or not is besides the point. But if you want tolerance, you’ve got to practice what you preach. And you have to make the first step by giving, not demanding.
I don’t excuse people of bigotry based on their education.
Nice try.
“Exit polls are often unreliable”
If you want to discount the entire polling system, then lets make sure to never reference polls again. The fact is polls and exit polling in particular have been and continue to be referenced so often for the simple reason that they have been proven to be a reliable measure of voter sentiment! And to try and discount polling as a way of avoiding the obvious and blatant homophobia within the Black community is counter productive to our equality. It’s simply not credible to use a Daily Kos opinion piece to try and cast doubt on the polling of credible news organizations like CNN, NBC, and the Associated Press (who all refer to the same exit polling interviews and statistics)and stand behind them. None of them have retracted any of thier polling information about the African American vote and Prop 8.
And if you don’t believe the polls, then try watching this video of a prominent African American “Yes on Prop 8″ advocate preaching about gays being pedophiles, and how gays “Can’t Reproduce, so they Recruit” children. This type of bigoted anti gay trash is routinely spewed in Black churches. We have to speak out against this anti-gay hatred.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrwj7SVWBMA
blaming every black person you encounter. wow. this is racism. this is prejudice.
What is with the THEY are intelligent people? Does Bushes election TwiCE make all white people stupid. Please lets stop speaking of people as a group. We should know better. Or is it true that all gay people have style, too much sex, are addicted to crystal meth? we should better
I disagree. You speak of guilt or bigotry as if it can be assigned to a class or race in general. I do not believe in collective guilt. It is impossible to say that education or lack thereof is the primary cause of people voting against Prop 8. What this theory lacks is the fact that many were steered by religious beliefs (none of which are logical) that dictated to them how they should vote. The power of the pulpit was far stronger for this particular ballot initiative.
That said, I do believe that blacks were likelier to vote for bigotry and yet vote for a change at the Federal level. The disconnect here relates to the fact that many wanted to see a man of color rise to the level of President, but dispose of gay civil rights as if their lives depended on it.
Is it fair? Certainly not. Should we all be angry about it, most definitely. What we need do now is channel that energy in a productive manner. Sue until the courts accept that gays are people too.
Joshua, I am so very glad that you said that! So, now I wont have to excuse you and Wayne for your bigotry and will spend no more time in trying to educate you and those like you.
Yes Wayne, lets throw out all of the exit polls. We know,see election 2004/2000, they dont work. But with that being said..I would love to know how you and those that think like you plan on getting African-Americans to support gay causes. You seem proud of your negative post, lets read some positive answers.
NOTE: Killing them and burning down their churches has already been said.
I agree with David Moore that it had at least as much to do with religion as with education. I think the black church has a lot to do with explaining the higher trends of the yes vote amongst black people. Many aspects of the black church are evangelical (in fact the style of white evangelical church preaching is very much derived from the way in which slaves reconciled Christianity with African religions). And since after all the black church plays a very important cohesive role for black people, it should come as no surprise that support for proposition 8 was as strong as it was.
I’m not certain education plays as significant a role as religion, though I perceive there is a connection between the two. I think the common denominator is critical and independent thinking. As an example, Mormons apparently played a large role in passing Preparation H, er, I mean Proposition 8. It may be difficult to slap the educationally deficient label on them, but they do think with their religious teachings. In my opinion this confirms the culprit is the inability to think critically and independently. Their ignorance is not socio-economic, it is a choice.