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Loading ...Besen: Frank talk on race and Prop. 8
On Election Day, 70-percent of African Americans voted to take away a gay person’s right to marry primarily based on a book – the Bible – that calls on slaves to obey their masters.
Mormons funded the measure – even though religious discrimination drove them from Missouri and Illinois in the 1830’s.The defeat of Proposition 8 can’t be blamed exclusively on African Americans and Mormons. There were plenty of white Catholic and protestant religious leaders – such as pastor Rick Warren of Saddleback Church – that share responsibility.
And there are legitimate questions about how the No On 8 campaign was run, which will be endlessly debated. For example, did the campaign’s decision to closet gay people in its ads lead to defeat?
Still, there is something particularly galling and repugnant about people who have felt the sting of discrimination, turn around and step on another minority. What happened at the ballot box feels like a personal betrayal and the hijacking of history.
To the Mormons who bankrolled the bigotry, religious discrimination is awful, as long as it is happening to them. For the black people who voted for Proposition 8, the civil rights movement was about emancipating black people – and no one else seems to matter. These solipsistic individuals and their pastors appear to lack an ember of empathy and have turned freedom into a private fiefdom.
The civil rights movement was much larger than the plight of black people, just as the fight for religious freedom is bigger than Mormons. Martin Luther King Jr. had a dream that all people are equal under the law and should be judged by the content of their character. Barack Obama largely embodied this universally appealing message and this is why he made history. (His opposition to marriage was the one duly noted stain on his record)
The Congressional Black Caucus, the late Coretta Scott King, basketball star Charles Barkley and Archbishop Desmond TuTu are among those who share this inclusive vision. Coretta Scott King once said that, “Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood.”
In the next campaign, this message needs to be taken directly to African-American voters. But before this happens, the GLBT community needs to have a serious discussion – not one that is pandering and patronizing – so we can figure out some solutions. When natural allies vote like enemies, there is much work to be done.
One person not to consult is black lesbian writer Jasmyne Cannick. In a hypocritical op-ed in the Los Angles Times, she said that the Prop 8 Campaign should have done more to reach out to black voters. Then she turned around and said, “to tell black people how to vote on something gay isn’t effective outreach either. There’s nothing a white gay person can tell me when it comes to how I as a black lesbian should talk to my community about this issue.”
This is a perversion of Dr. King’s dream. A white person should be able to talk freely to a black person about discrimination and vice versa. Cannick’s ideas are abhorrent and the antithesis of judging a person by their ideas or the content of their character. It is also shameful that Cannick claims that she went door-to-door on behalf of Obama and proudly refused to ask African-Americans to vote against Proposition 8. Her actions were closeted and cowardly.
Cannick also asks, “Does someone who is homeless or suffering from HIV but has no healthcare, or newly out of prison and unemployed, really benefit from the right to marry someone of the same sex?”
Imagine how grotesque it would have been in 1965 if a black person had written:
“Does someone who is homeless or suffering from cancer but has no healthcare, or newly out of prison and unemployed, really benefit from the right to marry someone of a different race?”
Another way to stop progress is for those hurt by this stinging defeat to verbally or physically assault African Americans. There were reports that this was occurring at rallies condemning Prop. 8. Mirroring the ugly actions of anti-gay haters is anathema to what our movement stands for, which is widening the circle of liberty. We need to be smart, rational grownups and not look for scapegoats.
There is a lot of blame to go around for the failure of Proposition 8 and the first step to healing and moving forward is honesty. Let’s not pretend that the repudiation of Martin Luther King Jr’s dream by African American voters did not hurt more than, say, rejection by white evangelicals. It did.
Equal rights for some, or at least those who look the same or hold like beliefs – is not the movement I signed up for, nor is it one that I want any part of.
In moving forward, we must move beyond pig-headed parochialism and build a coalition that embraces a universal set of principles that apply to all people. If we stupidly divide ourselves by sexual orientation or race – we can only expect a race to the bottom.
Mr. Besen,
I am more-than-pleased that you will be representing a significant segment of the gay community on FOX News this evening. See, for all the upset, you have maintained your composure moreso than most. Unlike many of us, I do not expect your points will be made with the more-visceral anger than some of us having been feeling this past week. You have really kept your head intact on this one. Congrats and Thanks,
Tom
I find it truly amazing how we all keep playing the blame game. Let’s just all calm the hell down and try to figure out where we’re going to go from here. Honestly, I have not heard anybody come up with the next step. Sure where all going to protest on Saturday, but I do not understand what is it going to prove if were still ashamed of ourselves.
I just keep reading peoples arguments and different blame being passed on differen minority groups when really we are suppose to be looking at ourselves.
Okay, so I believe that the gay community (including myself) did a half ass job. Now let us move on from last Tuesday and try to make history today.
Ashley: “Over the last week I have read your op eds and have been very disappointed in the slippery slope you have created.”
- The “slippery slope” is an ‘informal fallacy’. Invoking it invalidates your point.
Ashley: “At this point I think it is the gay movements responsibility to create outreach programs for minority communities. It is obviously apparent that minorities have been left out of the conversations of the leaders in the gay rights movement.”
- So then we have ‘a responsibility’ to “create outreach programs for minority communities” ? Know you not that the GLBTetc. ‘community’ is – in and of itself – a “minority community” ? Maybe them thar OTHER minority communities need to “reach out” to us. For instance, an apology from even one of them for how they voted on Prop 8 would be kinda nice right now (?!?)
Ashley: “Before we begin blaming people lets have clear communication.”
- Uhm … even Habermas abandoned the idea of a “free and ideal speech community” … You smarter than Habermas ? Cool.
Ashley: “your white privilege to make generalizations about academia and black education about the issue of gay rights (which is the true topic and your previous op ed was both ignorant and disgrace to 365gay.com), lets reach out to these communities. It is the white heterosexual man’s use of in fighting to not really focus on issues that has created a delay in many civil rights.”
- 1 – I do not think that Mr. Besen is a heterosexual person; and
2 – You do not evince a knowledge of how “white priviledge” – hell, ANY “priviledge” – is maintained via transnational late-capitalism. Maybe you need to get back to the roots (of critical social theory) ?
Ashley: “Not the civil rights movement of black America is not the same as the gay rights movement however, they are interconnected. Perhaps, if you would take a step back and realize that we should be talking about the intersectionality and not how they are the same, because not to fights are the same, then we can work together.”
- How are they interconnected then? In theory? They would have to be cuz in practise, seems like those who’ve suffered from racial(sic) and/or religious persecution [i.e. "black America" and The Mormons ] are incapable of translating an awareness of ANY type of that sorta intersection “in practice.”
Ashley: “In many realities queer people are at fault for not reaching out the communities they believe should just understand. And its definitely your white privilege to come at this from a standpoint of angry gay white man as you have stated your self.”
- If Sarah Palin has heard of post-structuralism, then you might be her…
Wayne…good luck tonight. We will be watching and cheering you on. Oh God, that means I have to find Fox News now! NOOOOOO!!! I’ll take one for the team, and for you, Mr. Besen.
Cannick also asks, “Does someone who is homeless or suffering from HIV but has no healthcare, or newly out of prison and unemployed, really benefit from the right to marry someone of the same sex?”
What is Cannick thinking? Are we to vote only for things that directly benefit us? Absurd!
We should vote to make life better for all people.
I had a partner for 42 years and will never have another relationship, but I’m totally devastated by the slap in the face that all LGBT people got from California, Florida, Arizona, & Arkansas. Consider the message that this gives to very young LGBT persons who are receiveing the same kind of message I was getting in the 1950s, that I was inferior and to be despised. It almost made me commit suicide.
My partner and I (both white) worked for years in the civil rights movement because it was the right thing to do. We worked directly with Coretta King who said that if her husband were still here he would be onboard with us in the LGBT movement.
Unfortunately Prop 8 puts the religious beliefs of some people in the California constitution to infringe upon the rights of other people. It really cannot stand!
First of all, Tom, let’s have real talk.
Ashley’s a friend of mine and as two black lesbians neither one of can enjoy even a fragment of the white privilege that Sarah Palin does. To compare the aforementioned views, in anyway, to those of Sarah Palin is merely a below the belt and unnecessary insult.
The “slippery slope” Ashley speaks of is not a fallacy. Labeling race as the primary actor in the passage of Prop. 8 is ignorant and dangerous to the movement.
There have been many comments that follow Mr. Besen’s stories that say members of the LGBT community will no longer speak to blacks and have no respect for them. Where does that leave blacks within the LGBT community. What do you think we feel? I’ll tell you.
No, we do not feel betrayal. Because the one thing Mr. Besen has failed to include in his “opinions” is that over 75% of California is white. 76.9% according to a 2006 census of California. Also, at the time only 6.7% were black! Are we led to believe that in only 2 years the numbers have changed so drastically that blacks really had THAT much impact in the passage of Prop. 8. I think not.
As a journalism major, let me just say that I find Mr. Besen’s opinions to be rude and way over the line of any ethical standard. Opinions are acceptable, but as a journalist I know that you need the FACTS and they need to be SUPPORTED! Don’t tell people that 70% of people voted one way, when clearly that group is smaller their percentages will be larger. Percentages can easily mislead people.
And, the community does need communication. Obviously, we know the LGBT community is a minority community, but if you know anything about other movements, ie. the Civil Rights Movement, you would know that one has to communicate and educate with their constituents if they wish to make them allies. Telling African Americans that their votes screwed up your right to marry is not only a) false, but b) not communication-it’s just blame.
It seems that 365.gay needs a history lesson and it’s unfortunate that neither Ashley or myself have the time, but the black view on gay rights has little do with education and its religious foundations are also somewhat debatable. But since when did someone have to be able to name the founding fathers in order to be educated on ballot initiatives. This is what we mean in terms of communication. It is easy for religious organizations to pull together their resources, mislead the people, and play on a deeply rooted seed of religion, while it may not be as easy for the LGBT community we must pull our resources together and work twice as hard to give life and personification to combat those views.
You cannot expect African Americans to identify with the LGBT struggle anymore than you can ask me to understand white privilege. We all bring different dishes to the table.
While we’re still on white privilege, I will address this misunderstanding you previously encountered. (See, I’m communicating.) No one was implying that Besen was heterosexual. The reference to white privilege was made in an effort to shine light on the fact that Mr. Besen appears to be using said privileges to implement the same oppressive views that white heterosexual men have used throughout history.
When it comes down to it, Mr. Besen’s opinions are often rude and misleading. No wonder he’ll be appearing on Fox tonight. Don’t think we don’t catch your not-so-subtle jabs at the black community.
“On Election Day, 70-percent of African Americans voted to take away a gay person’s right to marry primarily based on a book – the Bible – that calls on slaves to obey their masters.”
I guess Ashley and I are in the few percent of educated black, which is rather unfortunate for some…Of all the things to quote in the Bible you had to use slavery. Is there any other way you could have possibly a) insulted blacks or b) implied their unintelligence? I don’t think so.
Even the direct of our LGBT Resource Center who is also a white male found it incredibly offensive. I find it incredible that this made it past any type of editor. Opinions are obviously okay, but can we try not to let our emotions insult and attack others, especially when you anger is really unprecedented? BECAUSE numbers SUPPORTED by data does not lie. Next time, you’ll do your research. That’s also part of journalism, even on opinions, and it usually works out pretty well for the lot of us.
The truth is the upper-middle class white community sold gay rights up the river. No one wants to say it, because they feel as if they do, in some way, they will have to sacrifice their white privilege. So, maybe you will, but there comes a time when we have to decide what really matters.
Also, I want to say that I am not mad. Irritated, yes. Saddened, yes. Defeated, no. I will stand and fight the good fight and I’m done passing the buck. I just want to know what I can promote change. That’s what I ask myself every day at university. Ask yourself today and see what the answer is.
Yantezia said: “over 75% of California is white. 76.9% according to a 2006 census of California.”
I guess there must have been a change between 2001 and 2006. The last I heard, non-Hispanic whites were no longer a majority in CA.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A00E3DA153FF933A05750C0A9679C8B63 – Non-Hispanic Whites a Minority, California Census Figures Show
“For the first time in the modern era, non-Hispanic whites are officially a minority in California, amounting to a little less than half the population of the most populous state, compared with nearly three-quarters only a decade ago, according to census figures released today [2001].”
That article is from 2001, blacksteel. That’s the latest news you’ve heard? Here’s the census.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html
Also, how many of these non-hispanic white are legal U.S. citizens with the right to vote? Also, in this same article it says that the black population remained steady in population at about 7%. Hmm, much like the 2006 census, you’ll find above. Guess we can’t blame African Americans.So, either way, thanks for making my case all the more valid.
I am a multi-racial lesbian living in California and I agree! It hurt so much worse that a culture of people who know what it is like to be hated; a culture of people who know first hand the pain of discrimination, would vote to discriminate against us! I do believe more campaigning needed to be done to win the black vote. I believe in Mr. Kings dream; however, I don’t believe that African Americans looked at that. In order to understand them, I believe we have to put ourselves in their shoes. For years black people have had nothing. Even after civil right it is a well known fact that the public schools in urban communities lack the recourses (teachers, programs, etc) to effectively teach a dog let alone a child. Drugs, crime, broken families have ravage their communities, not excusing them but I’m making a point. They have developed a crippling reliance on “GOD” and “FAITH LEADERS.” They put their trust and money into these organizations truly believing and waiting on their “Blessing.” While in 90% of cases the pastor is more crooked them most politicians; taking money from their improvised members to support their grand lifestyles! If their leaders say GAYS are the devil… well to them that is what it is. If their leaders say YES ON 8, and they did, then that’s what they vote! Wining the black vote would require someone to bridge the gap; someone to pull these people out of their Religious box. I actually think it would take more energy to do that then to work on a federal banning Anti-gay legislation all together!
I am a multi-racial lesbian living in California and I agree! It hurt so much worse that a culture of people who know what it is like to be hated; a culture of people who know first hand the pain of discrimination, would vote to discriminate us! I do believe more campaigning needed to be done to win the black vote. I believe in Mr. Kings dream; however, I don’t believe that African Americans looked at that. In order to understand them, I believe we have to put ourselves in their shoes. For years black people have had nothing. Even after civil right it is a well known fact that the public schools in urban communities lack the recourses (teachers, programs, etc) to effectively teach a dog let alone a child. Drugs, crime, broken families have ravage their communities, not excusing them but I’m making a point. They have developed a crippling reliance on “GOD” and “FAITH LEADERS.” They put their trust and money into these organizations truly believing and waiting on their “Blessing.” While in 90% of cases the pastor is more crooked them most politicians; taking money from their improvised members to support their grand lifestyles! If their leaders say GAYS are the devil… well to them that is what it is. If their leaders say YES ON 8, and they did, then that’s what they vote! Wining the black vote would require someone to bridge the gap; someone to pull these people out of their Religious box. I actually think it would take more energy to do that then to work on a federal banning Anti-gay legislation all together!
Time has a myoptic effect on our modern day perspective of history. Your statement regarding the Utah Mormons exodus to the west — “even though religious discrimination drove them from Missouri and Illinois in the 1830’s” isn’t exactly true. Mormons weren’t innocent victims merely for their anti-protestant beliefs. It was because of their arrogance, their political ambitions to make Missiouri, yeah all of the American Mid-West, into a Mormon Relegious State within which all moral and spiritual doctrine, domestic laws, civil rules of conduct, morality practices and economic growth would be issued forth from the sacred but secretive halls of the Mormon temple. Their collective agression toward the existing population is documented in church history aimed at forcing their non-believing neighbors to either convert or move out. Hatred of Mormons had very little to do with their relegious practices or their beliefs — it was completely due to their overpowering greed for political domination of the area into which they saw as their god-given and rightful dominion. If the good people of Missiouri retaliated (Mormon history calls it persecution and relegious supression)in order to maintain their legal and civil rights under state and federal the laws laid down in the Constitution, it would seem that they acted to protect their families and their freedoms. Utah Mormons haven’t changed their tactics in the past one hundred and fifty years. They are just as arrogant, just as aggressive, and just as conniving. The difference is they have finessed their approach to influence the legislative processes by manipulating legal loop holes of laws of a government they throughly disdain. Not content to rule just one state, they are determined to rule every state and county from the intersactom of the temple in downtown Salt Lake City.
For all their talk about being a chosen people set aside from from mainstream Christianity and other relegious organizations, they sure have picked up some unlikely bedfellows in this latest forey in exerting their collective will. Can you believe the Mormons were slick enough to solicite the support and backing of the Catholics, Southern Baptists and the Penticostals? It boggles the mind! It was a well organized mastermind of manipulation, PR, truth stretching, and, o yes, lots of big bucks in bucketfulls. Open your eyes people, the Mormons won’t stop now. They’ve cross the state boarder and who know what laws they have their eyes on to “fix”. Seperation of Church and State is not a phrase the mega-Church leaders take seriously. Not from the time of their efforts to take over the Missiouri state government and certainlly not now. They aren’t content to have Utah all to them selves. For the future, just be sure you know who your are voting for when it comes to electing state and local law makers and enforcers…beware Mormons in non-secular clothing. Activitism and vigilance is our only salvation if freedom and civil are to have any value in the not too distant future. March boys and girls, march, march, march. Carry those plackards high and hold them proud. I wish with all my heart that I could be with you as you face the batons and barracades. Viva Gay!!!! Courage, hope and determination!
Mr. Besen, I just saw you on Bill-O the Clown’s Circus Party Hour, and I think you did a great job, though I was too distracted by Bill-O’s ghastly turkey neck sloshing all over the screen to listen to all of the segment. I did however catch the end of the segment where Bill-O the lying turd essentially tried to call you an anti-religionist and cut you off from even responding. What a goddamn joke he is. The reason why Americans are so hostile toward LGBT people is because they are retarded enough to listen to sick tools like Bill-O the clown.
Yantezia: “To compare the aforementioned views, in anyway, to those of Sarah Palin is merely a below the belt and unnecessary insult.”
Agreed: Said comparison was/is sexist. I apologize to you both (as well as anyone else who was duly-offended by my abrasive analogy.)
… more later Yantezia [I just began reading your extensive reply and know it requires a more thorough - and thoughtful - response (and btw, thank you *for* replying Yantezia)]
Sadly Ms Cannick’s views as a black Lesbian are very common amongst black gays and lesbians. They don’t see any importance in marriage equality for gays and lesbians or see it as something having to do with white rich gays only.
Laura,
I agree with you. For the record, I am a half-black, half-asian lesbian. Too many black gays are too caught up in their own black identity to give a damn about anything else. That is what I see in Cannick; ideological tribalism. They don’t realize how ironic it is to claim to want a society that ignores racial differences, yet all they ever think about is race/racism. Not all gays of color are like Cannick though.
Some of us actually use our brains and not blind tribalism.