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	<title>Comments on: Why do we hate? Academics seek answer in new field</title>
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		<title>By: GodConsciousness</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/why-do-we-hate-academics-seek-answer-in-new-field/comment-page-1/#comment-77887</link>
		<dc:creator>GodConsciousness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10855#comment-77887</guid>
		<description>It is so very easy to explain hate.  People hate one another because of the principle of Social Darwinism.  We are coded genetically to believe that what looks and acts like us is preferential to that which is alien.  It&#039;s called survival of the species.  It&#039;s primitive.  It explains all discriminaton; and it&#039;s sick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is so very easy to explain hate.  People hate one another because of the principle of Social Darwinism.  We are coded genetically to believe that what looks and acts like us is preferential to that which is alien.  It&#8217;s called survival of the species.  It&#8217;s primitive.  It explains all discriminaton; and it&#8217;s sick.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Quir</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/why-do-we-hate-academics-seek-answer-in-new-field/comment-page-1/#comment-77829</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Quir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10855#comment-77829</guid>
		<description>366gay said, &quot;My question is why do gays hate everyone?&quot;

Ummmm, generalize much?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>366gay said, &#8220;My question is why do gays hate everyone?&#8221;</p>
<p>Ummmm, generalize much?</p>
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		<title>By: secrity</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/why-do-we-hate-academics-seek-answer-in-new-field/comment-page-1/#comment-77671</link>
		<dc:creator>secrity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 03:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10855#comment-77671</guid>
		<description>How cute, a troll.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How cute, a troll.</p>
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		<title>By: secrity</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/why-do-we-hate-academics-seek-answer-in-new-field/comment-page-1/#comment-77625</link>
		<dc:creator>secrity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 02:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10855#comment-77625</guid>
		<description>My question is why do Christians hate gays?  

Yes, I know that a FEW American and Canadian denominations, such as Episcopalians, UCC and part of the Lutherans officially don&#039;t hate gays, but the vast majority of Christian Churches and denominations either discriminate against or outright hate gays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My question is why do Christians hate gays?  </p>
<p>Yes, I know that a FEW American and Canadian denominations, such as Episcopalians, UCC and part of the Lutherans officially don&#8217;t hate gays, but the vast majority of Christian Churches and denominations either discriminate against or outright hate gays.</p>
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		<title>By: esurience</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/why-do-we-hate-academics-seek-answer-in-new-field/comment-page-1/#comment-77538</link>
		<dc:creator>esurience</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10855#comment-77538</guid>
		<description>Yep. I was thinking about this in regards to racism, and it&#039;s application to our struggle.

When I learned about racism in school, our history of slavery, segregation, civil rights violations, violence and hate, the reaction I had to learning these things, and the reaction of my peers, was essentially this:

&quot;&lt;i&gt;Why&lt;/i&gt; the hell would you do that to people just because they had a different skin color. That&#039;s so &lt;i&gt;stupid&lt;/i&gt;.&quot;

It didn&#039;t make any sense. At all. It was not just horrifying to learn, it was genuinely &lt;i&gt;confusing&lt;/i&gt;.

But the &lt;i&gt;rationale&lt;/i&gt; advanced for discriminating and oppressing African-Americans was &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt;: &quot;They have black skin. We have white skin. Therefore, let&#039;s oppress and discriminate against them.&quot;

That was of course the reason, and the desire, behind the rationales that were made. But there was always a rationale advanced. Whether it was thinking African-Americans wouldn&#039;t be able to take care of themselves if they didn&#039;t have masters, or whether it was because black men were considered a threat to white women, and couldn&#039;t control themselves, or whatever.

There was always a rationale. Not a legitimate one. Not a moral one. But it was there.

So how has society (largely) moved past racism? It&#039;s moved past racism, not just because the rationale advanced for racism was debunked, but because people lost the &lt;i&gt;desire&lt;/i&gt;, the instinct, to want to discriminate against people solely on the basis of race. 

Where does that desire -- to treat people differently from yourself because of some arbitrary and stupidly superficial thing -- come from? Arguably it partially comes of our biology and the instinct towards &quot;tribalism&quot; (seeing people with obvious differences from ourselves as, well, different, and wanting to privilege our own tribe over theirs). But more importantly, I think, because people are born into a prejudiced culture.

Today, especially among young people (although it is regionally dependent), that &lt;i&gt;desire&lt;/i&gt; to want to discriminate against people based on the color of their skin has largely vanished. Without a desire to discriminate, the rationalizations to discriminate do not form. More than that, any rationalization to discriminate against a person based on the color of their skin, is &lt;b&gt;rejected out of hand&lt;/b&gt; by a person who has no desire to form such a rationalization in the first place.

Racists today often use crime statistics to rationalize their intolerance and hatred towards blacks. But a person who has no desire to discriminate against blacks (because they grew up without that prejudice being planted), responds thusly:

First, they&#039;d probably call the person a racist, white-trash, nazi bigot. But if they wanted to engage the person intellectually, they might say:

&quot;Well, if it&#039;s true that crime in black communities is such a problem, then we have an obligation as a society to help solve that problem and improve those communities&quot;


Similarly, bigoted homophobes of today often use statistics about STDs to rationalize their intolerance and hatred towards gay people. But again, a person who has no desire to discriminate against gay people (because they grew up without that prejudice being planted), responds thusly:

Bigot, blah blah blah -- and if they want to engage the person intellectually, they might say:

&quot;Well, if it&#039;s true that STDs are a problem within the gay community, we should help fix that, maybe by more safer sex education&quot; (And of course another way to diminish that problem would be to cultivate a culture a marriage among gay people).

I&#039;m reminded of an experience back in high school. I was socializing with two guys during class (freshman), and during the course of that conversation, I ended up coming out to them (I think I was responding to a question about hot girls, or something).

There was a little bit of smiling and giggling. Then they started to ask me some (good-natured) questions. They were curious -- I was the first openly gay person they knew, I think.

One of those questions was: &quot;So are you going to marry a guy when you&#039;re older?&quot;

My response: &quot;Yes, I probably will. But unfortunately it&#039;s not legally recognized.&quot;

Their response: &quot;&lt;i&gt;Why&lt;/i&gt; wouldn&#039;t it be legal?&quot;

They were genuinely &lt;i&gt;confused&lt;/i&gt; as to why that discrimination would exist. It was quite endearing.


I think we can categorize people into 3 groups, which might be a helpful model for what persuasion tactics we use in the future, and give us an idea of what we&#039;re up against:

1) People who grow up with prejudice against gay and lesbian people deeply instilled in them. These people need no &lt;i&gt;reason&lt;/i&gt; to discriminate against us, they simply &lt;i&gt;desire&lt;/i&gt; to do so. They will rationalize it in any way that they can. If you knock their rationalizations down, they will be undeterred. The did not arrive at their position through reason, and reason won&#039;t get them away from it. The only exception to that rule is people who are intellectually honest, reflective, and empathetic, and really care whether they are right or wrong about certain things. Such people are, unfortunately, exceedingly rare.

2) People who have received conflicting messages about homosexuality, and absorbed them. These people aren&#039;t really sure what to think. They&#039;ll go where the wind blows. They may have some prejudice against gay and lesbian people, but they&#039;ve also received a strong message that such prejudice is wrong. They don&#039;t really have a &lt;i&gt;desire&lt;/i&gt; to discriminate against gay and lesbian people (for it&#039;s own sake), but they aren&#039;t sure that such discrimination is really wrong or unjustified, because they&#039;ve received conflicting messages. These people are persuadable by reason (from both sides of the argument).

3) People who have grown up in an atmosphere that is accepting of homosexuality. These are the people that have no &lt;i&gt;desire&lt;/i&gt; to discriminate against gay and lesbian people in the first place. They may be genuinely confused about why such discrimination would even exist. They reject, out of hand, any rationalization for such discrimination as bigoted.

Of course these groups are not static. It&#039;s possible to move between them without having to meet the intitial condition I specified (in the first sentence). But what we can say is: It&#039;s very hard to move people out of group 1, and it&#039;s also very hard to move people out of group 3.

So that&#039;s both good news and bad news for us. The additional good news is that acceptance leads to more acceptance. Our trajectory is obviously headed in the right direction, group 3 is growing, group 1 is shrinking.

But the bad news is that group 1 is still massive. group 2 follows it. And group 3 is mostly young people, who, although on our side, are often apathetic about voting, and often ignorant of the real struggles that are faced by gay and lesbian people due to discrimination (because, in their own youth culture, they don&#039;t necessarily see it).

Anyway, that is my analysis :) Ya&#039;ll can be the judge if it&#039;s crackpotted or not :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep. I was thinking about this in regards to racism, and it&#8217;s application to our struggle.</p>
<p>When I learned about racism in school, our history of slavery, segregation, civil rights violations, violence and hate, the reaction I had to learning these things, and the reaction of my peers, was essentially this:</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>Why</i> the hell would you do that to people just because they had a different skin color. That&#8217;s so <i>stupid</i>.&#8221;</p>
<p>It didn&#8217;t make any sense. At all. It was not just horrifying to learn, it was genuinely <i>confusing</i>.</p>
<p>But the <i>rationale</i> advanced for discriminating and oppressing African-Americans was <b>not</b>: &#8220;They have black skin. We have white skin. Therefore, let&#8217;s oppress and discriminate against them.&#8221;</p>
<p>That was of course the reason, and the desire, behind the rationales that were made. But there was always a rationale advanced. Whether it was thinking African-Americans wouldn&#8217;t be able to take care of themselves if they didn&#8217;t have masters, or whether it was because black men were considered a threat to white women, and couldn&#8217;t control themselves, or whatever.</p>
<p>There was always a rationale. Not a legitimate one. Not a moral one. But it was there.</p>
<p>So how has society (largely) moved past racism? It&#8217;s moved past racism, not just because the rationale advanced for racism was debunked, but because people lost the <i>desire</i>, the instinct, to want to discriminate against people solely on the basis of race. </p>
<p>Where does that desire &#8212; to treat people differently from yourself because of some arbitrary and stupidly superficial thing &#8212; come from? Arguably it partially comes of our biology and the instinct towards &#8220;tribalism&#8221; (seeing people with obvious differences from ourselves as, well, different, and wanting to privilege our own tribe over theirs). But more importantly, I think, because people are born into a prejudiced culture.</p>
<p>Today, especially among young people (although it is regionally dependent), that <i>desire</i> to want to discriminate against people based on the color of their skin has largely vanished. Without a desire to discriminate, the rationalizations to discriminate do not form. More than that, any rationalization to discriminate against a person based on the color of their skin, is <b>rejected out of hand</b> by a person who has no desire to form such a rationalization in the first place.</p>
<p>Racists today often use crime statistics to rationalize their intolerance and hatred towards blacks. But a person who has no desire to discriminate against blacks (because they grew up without that prejudice being planted), responds thusly:</p>
<p>First, they&#8217;d probably call the person a racist, white-trash, nazi bigot. But if they wanted to engage the person intellectually, they might say:</p>
<p>&#8220;Well, if it&#8217;s true that crime in black communities is such a problem, then we have an obligation as a society to help solve that problem and improve those communities&#8221;</p>
<p>Similarly, bigoted homophobes of today often use statistics about STDs to rationalize their intolerance and hatred towards gay people. But again, a person who has no desire to discriminate against gay people (because they grew up without that prejudice being planted), responds thusly:</p>
<p>Bigot, blah blah blah &#8212; and if they want to engage the person intellectually, they might say:</p>
<p>&#8220;Well, if it&#8217;s true that STDs are a problem within the gay community, we should help fix that, maybe by more safer sex education&#8221; (And of course another way to diminish that problem would be to cultivate a culture a marriage among gay people).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m reminded of an experience back in high school. I was socializing with two guys during class (freshman), and during the course of that conversation, I ended up coming out to them (I think I was responding to a question about hot girls, or something).</p>
<p>There was a little bit of smiling and giggling. Then they started to ask me some (good-natured) questions. They were curious &#8212; I was the first openly gay person they knew, I think.</p>
<p>One of those questions was: &#8220;So are you going to marry a guy when you&#8217;re older?&#8221;</p>
<p>My response: &#8220;Yes, I probably will. But unfortunately it&#8217;s not legally recognized.&#8221;</p>
<p>Their response: &#8220;<i>Why</i> wouldn&#8217;t it be legal?&#8221;</p>
<p>They were genuinely <i>confused</i> as to why that discrimination would exist. It was quite endearing.</p>
<p>I think we can categorize people into 3 groups, which might be a helpful model for what persuasion tactics we use in the future, and give us an idea of what we&#8217;re up against:</p>
<p>1) People who grow up with prejudice against gay and lesbian people deeply instilled in them. These people need no <i>reason</i> to discriminate against us, they simply <i>desire</i> to do so. They will rationalize it in any way that they can. If you knock their rationalizations down, they will be undeterred. The did not arrive at their position through reason, and reason won&#8217;t get them away from it. The only exception to that rule is people who are intellectually honest, reflective, and empathetic, and really care whether they are right or wrong about certain things. Such people are, unfortunately, exceedingly rare.</p>
<p>2) People who have received conflicting messages about homosexuality, and absorbed them. These people aren&#8217;t really sure what to think. They&#8217;ll go where the wind blows. They may have some prejudice against gay and lesbian people, but they&#8217;ve also received a strong message that such prejudice is wrong. They don&#8217;t really have a <i>desire</i> to discriminate against gay and lesbian people (for it&#8217;s own sake), but they aren&#8217;t sure that such discrimination is really wrong or unjustified, because they&#8217;ve received conflicting messages. These people are persuadable by reason (from both sides of the argument).</p>
<p>3) People who have grown up in an atmosphere that is accepting of homosexuality. These are the people that have no <i>desire</i> to discriminate against gay and lesbian people in the first place. They may be genuinely confused about why such discrimination would even exist. They reject, out of hand, any rationalization for such discrimination as bigoted.</p>
<p>Of course these groups are not static. It&#8217;s possible to move between them without having to meet the intitial condition I specified (in the first sentence). But what we can say is: It&#8217;s very hard to move people out of group 1, and it&#8217;s also very hard to move people out of group 3.</p>
<p>So that&#8217;s both good news and bad news for us. The additional good news is that acceptance leads to more acceptance. Our trajectory is obviously headed in the right direction, group 3 is growing, group 1 is shrinking.</p>
<p>But the bad news is that group 1 is still massive. group 2 follows it. And group 3 is mostly young people, who, although on our side, are often apathetic about voting, and often ignorant of the real struggles that are faced by gay and lesbian people due to discrimination (because, in their own youth culture, they don&#8217;t necessarily see it).</p>
<p>Anyway, that is my analysis <img src='http://www.365gay.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Ya&#8217;ll can be the judge if it&#8217;s crackpotted or not <img src='http://www.365gay.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: James DeCambra</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/why-do-we-hate-academics-seek-answer-in-new-field/comment-page-1/#comment-77516</link>
		<dc:creator>James DeCambra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10855#comment-77516</guid>
		<description>Good summary, Andreas. And what a great field of study?

It&#039;s primal, it&#039;s fear, anger, competition and it&#039;s not unique to humans. It&#039;s all about us and them - whoever us is, and who ever them is.  

Race, religion, culture, hunting/gathering grounds, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good summary, Andreas. And what a great field of study?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s primal, it&#8217;s fear, anger, competition and it&#8217;s not unique to humans. It&#8217;s all about us and them &#8211; whoever us is, and who ever them is.  </p>
<p>Race, religion, culture, hunting/gathering grounds, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Facebook User</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/why-do-we-hate-academics-seek-answer-in-new-field/comment-page-1/#comment-77513</link>
		<dc:creator>Facebook User</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10855#comment-77513</guid>
		<description>Hate is an expression of arrogance, in which the hater&#039;s monumental ego, socialized by culture, generates contempt for anything or anyone that does not fit his world view. The more profound the hater&#039;s ignorance, the more likely he will be violent toward the object of his hate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hate is an expression of arrogance, in which the hater&#8217;s monumental ego, socialized by culture, generates contempt for anything or anyone that does not fit his world view. The more profound the hater&#8217;s ignorance, the more likely he will be violent toward the object of his hate.</p>
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		<title>By: cyberteddy</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/why-do-we-hate-academics-seek-answer-in-new-field/comment-page-1/#comment-77507</link>
		<dc:creator>cyberteddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10855#comment-77507</guid>
		<description>Hate cannot exist without an underlying feeling of helplessness. You can be angry without helplessness, but you cannot hate.

And general helplessness is not always linked to a special situation.
More often it is driven by depression.

And against depression there are drugs (and psychiatrists).

Is that an answer too easy for you ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hate cannot exist without an underlying feeling of helplessness. You can be angry without helplessness, but you cannot hate.</p>
<p>And general helplessness is not always linked to a special situation.<br />
More often it is driven by depression.</p>
<p>And against depression there are drugs (and psychiatrists).</p>
<p>Is that an answer too easy for you ?</p>
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		<title>By: Ginelle</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/why-do-we-hate-academics-seek-answer-in-new-field/comment-page-1/#comment-77491</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10855#comment-77491</guid>
		<description>An interesting question it is Kelson!  I have seen throughout my life, that religion, especially organized religion is one of the great proponents of hate, especially when it comes to the homosexual community.  Religion has always used fear of the unknown and intimidation to gain control of the masses.  In the words of Lucretius, a first century B.C. Roman philosopher &quot;religion, as a disease born of fear, is a source of untold misery to the human race&quot;.  People fear things that they don&#039;t understand, and this fear develops into intolerance, ignorance and hate which organized religion has used over and over again to their advantage.  Bertrand Russell back in a 1927 lecture &quot;Why I am Not A Christian&quot; echoed Lucretius thoughts &quot;you find as you look around the world that every single bit of progress in human feeling, every improvement in the criminal law, every step towards the diminution of war, every step towards better treatment of the coloured races or every mitigation of slavery, every moral progress that there has been in the world, has been consistently opposed by the organized churches of the world&quot;.  Without organized religion there would be no fear, there would be no intolerance, there would be no hate.  People would be free to make up their own minds and come to informed decisions based on their own learned knowledge and experiences.  And I personally think everyone would be better off for it, who needs a organized religion or a church building to worship God when his creation is all around us everyday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting question it is Kelson!  I have seen throughout my life, that religion, especially organized religion is one of the great proponents of hate, especially when it comes to the homosexual community.  Religion has always used fear of the unknown and intimidation to gain control of the masses.  In the words of Lucretius, a first century B.C. Roman philosopher &#8220;religion, as a disease born of fear, is a source of untold misery to the human race&#8221;.  People fear things that they don&#8217;t understand, and this fear develops into intolerance, ignorance and hate which organized religion has used over and over again to their advantage.  Bertrand Russell back in a 1927 lecture &#8220;Why I am Not A Christian&#8221; echoed Lucretius thoughts &#8220;you find as you look around the world that every single bit of progress in human feeling, every improvement in the criminal law, every step towards the diminution of war, every step towards better treatment of the coloured races or every mitigation of slavery, every moral progress that there has been in the world, has been consistently opposed by the organized churches of the world&#8221;.  Without organized religion there would be no fear, there would be no intolerance, there would be no hate.  People would be free to make up their own minds and come to informed decisions based on their own learned knowledge and experiences.  And I personally think everyone would be better off for it, who needs a organized religion or a church building to worship God when his creation is all around us everyday.</p>
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		<title>By: Jai Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/why-do-we-hate-academics-seek-answer-in-new-field/comment-page-1/#comment-77488</link>
		<dc:creator>Jai Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10855#comment-77488</guid>
		<description>I have always said, forgive me for I may not be the most elegant writer, that with the existence of love there is always the risk of hate. If someone believes that their love is in jeopardy, they will act in a hateful manner in order to countermand it. Also it has to do with insecurity with oneself; if you can&#039;t love yourself how can you love others? All men and women experience this; whether they just want to fit in or are desperately trying to prove something to other. People are naturally irrational. A great man once said &quot;People have a way of going against common sense in order to accomplish petty goals. They see the truth right in front of them, however refuse to follow it.&quot; We have lost the instinct that animals have through development of critical thinking. Ultimately it can be said that hate is the blight that comes with intelligence and is impossible to get rid of completely. It is like energy, no hate is every created or destroyed. It is just refocused and applied.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have always said, forgive me for I may not be the most elegant writer, that with the existence of love there is always the risk of hate. If someone believes that their love is in jeopardy, they will act in a hateful manner in order to countermand it. Also it has to do with insecurity with oneself; if you can&#8217;t love yourself how can you love others? All men and women experience this; whether they just want to fit in or are desperately trying to prove something to other. People are naturally irrational. A great man once said &#8220;People have a way of going against common sense in order to accomplish petty goals. They see the truth right in front of them, however refuse to follow it.&#8221; We have lost the instinct that animals have through development of critical thinking. Ultimately it can be said that hate is the blight that comes with intelligence and is impossible to get rid of completely. It is like energy, no hate is every created or destroyed. It is just refocused and applied.</p>
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