YESYESYES! This about the kids! The point is that OUR CHILDREN are being mistreated and we need to fix that! FOCUS PEOPLE!

I have no idea what kind of point you are attempting to make. Your opinion is just that: an opinion. Its angry, hateful, illogical, and confusing.

Your use of sexual orientation/romantic orientation is also confusing. By heterosexual, you would mean if a transwoman loved a man (trans or cis)? By homosexual, a (trans/cis) woman who loves (trans/ciswomen), ect? By you’re tone, i’d assume you’d go with the more disrespectful version, of transowmen who love women being het. Gee, thanks for reinforcing the binary.

Your mixing psychology and biology and assuming they will always work the way YOU state IF a certain situation occurs which you NEVER actually provide any proof of. yet you continue to judge people about something that you CLEARLY don’t know anything about. I honestly can’t even tell why you believe that situation would have to play out to effect someones’ gender identity. When you have more than bigotry and built-up anger, talk to me.

It is you that made the mispresumption that I do not see lesbians as women simply because I do not see people with extensive sexual histories (homo, bi, and especially hetero) with birth sex organs on other people as the gender they say they are.

I do see lesbians that think they are lesbians (or at least peer relate to them) and think they are also men at the same time as 100% women. So why would I not see every other lesbian that way?

It certainly seems possible that there is such a thing as a transsexual lesbian in a man’s body but I have never seen a pre-op sexual history combined with a post-op sexual history of a person that supports that claim.

An example might be but not limited to the following scenario:

A person marries a woman as a man and has tried numerous times to have vaginal intercourse with her but could not because it was physically impossible due to a lesbian psychosexual sex and a male genital disjunction. When the disjunction was surgically relived, a full lesbian sex life that usually resulted in orgasms for the transsexual lesbian was possible.

I have NEVER come across such a person.

You can insist that these people are lesbians all you like. Yet transsexual lesbians are almost never in a relationship with cisgender lesbians and not bisexuals or their heterosexual wife who now calls herself a lesbian to please her fallen man!

The intersex community was fortunate enough to escape misperceived sociosexual peer association with queers that psychosexual invert transsexuals were not able to.

Even the so called secondary MTF transsexuals do not see their gender as an exclusive basis for being a part of the queer community. They only see their sexual orientation relative to their gender identity as the basis for being so.

They are too afraid to be assertive on this issue because they are already in the lesbian’s reject doghouse of the queer community and will not rock the boat further. They will usually accept and always extremely tolerate the very gender relational disrespect from gays and lesbians that they fight the Christian Right tooth and nail for.

This stupidity from MTF secondary transsexuals reminds me of the people in the area of Ireland my mom was from.

The idiots fought tooth and nail to have political freedom from the British only to willingly give their obedience and souls to the Italians that equally exploit them.

I on the other hand have no reason to be so inhibited from doing so.

I will back them 100% on saying that so called non-op transsexuals nothing more than homosexually oriented, sexually motivated transvestites that have nothing to do with transsexualism and never did historically.

They were always considered queens of the gay community. After the Stonewall Riots, queens broke up into two main groups: 1) She-males – sexually motivated transvestites and 2) Drag queens – socially motivated transvestites.

Transsexuals: both psychosexual invert transsexuals and non-psychosexual invert transsexuals that were heterosexual before transition never had any sociosexual peer association with transgenderists or with the other type of transsexual for that matter.

Psychosexual invert transsexuals will continue fight to have the same respectful distance from queers as intersex people have!!! This misperceived association that queers put forth in the media will come back to haunt them just like Janice Raymond and Germaine Greer’s work came back to haunt feminism!!!

First off, you seem to have a rather skewed idea of what ‘transgender’ actually means. I suggest you engage in REAL discussions with people who identify as such, if you are interested. Many people who are transgender are asexual (which seems to discredit the autogynophilia theory a bit, though I have seen responses to this) and/or do not fit into the much-disputed ‘homosexual transgender/transsexual or the autogynophiliac transgender/transsexual. Many people who are transgender DO have fluid indentities, but that’s not to say that all do. Many reject the binary, many fit it, and yes, there are cross dressers and such. The problem with removing transsexual from under the ‘trans umbrella,’ seems to be that many people ‘blur the lines’ and make it difficult to distinguish differences.

“When are you selfish queers going to learn to take responsibility for your own transvestites and not conflate them with transsexuals just because you are too publicly humiliated by the truth!”

I find the above offensive. Also, confusing. Are you saying all ‘transvestites’ are queer, that they are the same as transgendered people? Why are they selfish? Why are these groups merged, but not yours?

I don’t see how separating ‘similar groups’ will stop harassment. Sorry, but it won’t. Its a noble cause, surely, but verbal/physical abuse probably will not stop.

Also, while I am usually not a critic of grammar (mainly because mine is poor), it was difficult to understand what your post was saying. So saying, it was not easy to formulate a response because your stance(s) seemed to shift. I understand that English is not everyone’s first language, that internet discussions have their own language, ect. I mean you no disrespect, just some advice. I apologize if this offends ANYONE, it was not my intent.

Please note that these are just MY opinions/ stances. I respect everyone’s views, but I think in some cases debate is necessary. I must say, however, that the firm stances you all take very admirable. I welcome responses, so long as they are civil.

This is why it is equally stupid to consider self identity as the only gender criteria as considering only genitalia is.

Psychosexual sex is what determines how people are attracted to each other. A true transsexual can only be sexually aroused when seeing themselves sexually behaving as a member of the sex opposite of what is associated with their birth genitalia. This insures that they will always be at least technically virgins until sex reassignment surgery is performed.

This how is possible for my boyfriend who is FTM and myself who is MTF to function emotionally and socially as a heterosexual couple for over six and a half years. People like us never had anything to do with queer or transgender community.

The Gay Straight Alliance is picking up the conflation tactics that many people seem to object to from their parent queer organization GLAAD (Gays and Lesbians against Anti-Defamation). It is you stupid queers that came up with the Gender Fluidity Theory that is being used as a double edged sword that is bringing on unwanted conflation.

People like my fiancé and I have more reason to resent this conflation than you people do. My fiancé has to work with rednecks to earn a living. I have to be subjected to crude and sexual propositions s from men who want unnatural sex that conflated me with your homosexually oriented, sexually motivated transvestites that go by the oxymoronic term non-op transsexual.

Queer independent transsexual organizations barely exist if they do at all.
It is YOUR Gender Fluidity Theory that groups everything from heterosexual sissies and tomboys to butch lesbians and nellie gays with post-op opposite birth sex conforming transsexuals!!!

When are you selfish queers going to learn to take responsibility for your own transvestites and not conflate them with transsexuals just because you are too publicly humiliated by the truth!

Transsexuals have a petition to GLAAD to remove them from the transgender umbrella group that will of course have the consequence of removing them from the queer community as well.

Sign the petition if you want transsexuals out of the gay and lesbian communities!!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/transgender-is-not-an-umbrella