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	<title>Comments on: Schwarzenegger won&#8217;t petition court on Prop 8</title>
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	<description>The daily news source for the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community</description>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/schwarzenegger-wont-petition-court-on-prop-8/comment-page-3/#comment-30932</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4242#comment-30932</guid>
		<description>Arnold&#039;s going away regardless. California has a very strict term limits law. You can only be &quot;elected&quot; governor twice. Since Arnold was first &quot;elected&quot; governor in mid-term, he can only serve until 2010 (he will have served less than 7 years total).

The question is: will they replace him with a Democrat? Or will they pick some scary right-winger who&#039;ll put the full weight of the state government behind an anti-gay and anti-feminist agenda? Given California&#039;s long history of electing conservative GOP governors, there&#039;s much reason to fear we&#039;ll end up with somebody much worse than Schwarzenegger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arnold&#8217;s going away regardless. California has a very strict term limits law. You can only be &#8220;elected&#8221; governor twice. Since Arnold was first &#8220;elected&#8221; governor in mid-term, he can only serve until 2010 (he will have served less than 7 years total).</p>
<p>The question is: will they replace him with a Democrat? Or will they pick some scary right-winger who&#8217;ll put the full weight of the state government behind an anti-gay and anti-feminist agenda? Given California&#8217;s long history of electing conservative GOP governors, there&#8217;s much reason to fear we&#8217;ll end up with somebody much worse than Schwarzenegger.</p>
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		<title>By: RICK</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/schwarzenegger-wont-petition-court-on-prop-8/comment-page-3/#comment-30901</link>
		<dc:creator>RICK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 13:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4242#comment-30901</guid>
		<description>HEY OBAMA ! TIME FOR A MARCH ON WASHINGTON-HE CANT IGNORE US THEN. PROTEST ARNIE THIS WEEKEND-GET OUT THERE AND LET HIM HAVE IT !!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HEY OBAMA ! TIME FOR A MARCH ON WASHINGTON-HE CANT IGNORE US THEN. PROTEST ARNIE THIS WEEKEND-GET OUT THERE AND LET HIM HAVE IT !!</p>
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		<title>By: drewski</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/schwarzenegger-wont-petition-court-on-prop-8/comment-page-3/#comment-30884</link>
		<dc:creator>drewski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4242#comment-30884</guid>
		<description>Jack, it seems that there&#039;re two things you&#039;ve managed to ignore about both Arnie and California.  I&#039;ll go slowly.

One, this whole affair isn&#039;t about Arnie.  He&#039;s not a judge, let alone a state Supreme Court justice.  It&#039;s Arnie&#039;s duplicity--he clearly and openly acknowledges the Court&#039;s verdict which killed Prop 22, and which also invalidates 8 through black-letter law, but yet HE tries to dance away from direct responsibility.  No sir, that doesn&#039;t work.  

Two, Arnie has done next to nothing to deal with California&#039;s problems.  Its biggest problem isn&#039;t gay marriage or water rights or seismic retrofits--it&#039;s money, especially state revenues and the clusterfuck called Prop 13.  If California had to meet the same standards for balanced budget as Ohio, Cali would be tits-up within hours.  So this &quot;moderate&quot; Republican has really done nothing to fix the problems.  He leaves a constitutional landmine to whoever will be sucker enough to grab it, and the state&#039;s finances are once again left to the most creative accountant.  We&#039;ve already seen what creative accounting can do.  This isn&#039;t leadership, it&#039;s opportunism.  Arnie is no statesman, Jack, and his power to &quot;unify&quot; is something he has chosen to sacrifice to an as-yet-unspoken expediency.  On that count, he&#039;s worse than Bush, because Arnie has had real public support, but he&#039;s consciously chosen to squander it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack, it seems that there&#8217;re two things you&#8217;ve managed to ignore about both Arnie and California.  I&#8217;ll go slowly.</p>
<p>One, this whole affair isn&#8217;t about Arnie.  He&#8217;s not a judge, let alone a state Supreme Court justice.  It&#8217;s Arnie&#8217;s duplicity&#8211;he clearly and openly acknowledges the Court&#8217;s verdict which killed Prop 22, and which also invalidates 8 through black-letter law, but yet HE tries to dance away from direct responsibility.  No sir, that doesn&#8217;t work.  </p>
<p>Two, Arnie has done next to nothing to deal with California&#8217;s problems.  Its biggest problem isn&#8217;t gay marriage or water rights or seismic retrofits&#8211;it&#8217;s money, especially state revenues and the clusterfuck called Prop 13.  If California had to meet the same standards for balanced budget as Ohio, Cali would be tits-up within hours.  So this &#8220;moderate&#8221; Republican has really done nothing to fix the problems.  He leaves a constitutional landmine to whoever will be sucker enough to grab it, and the state&#8217;s finances are once again left to the most creative accountant.  We&#8217;ve already seen what creative accounting can do.  This isn&#8217;t leadership, it&#8217;s opportunism.  Arnie is no statesman, Jack, and his power to &#8220;unify&#8221; is something he has chosen to sacrifice to an as-yet-unspoken expediency.  On that count, he&#8217;s worse than Bush, because Arnie has had real public support, but he&#8217;s consciously chosen to squander it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack L. Crain</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/schwarzenegger-wont-petition-court-on-prop-8/comment-page-3/#comment-30877</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack L. Crain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4242#comment-30877</guid>
		<description>I understand that many feel it would be helpful for the Governor to step forward by filing a legal brief.  I would like to see that happen myself.  However, I can also see the position that he is in.  I have come to respect the Governor over time and realize that for him to step forward would be seen by the people of his state as taking sides against the majority.  If he is to continue to govern California effectively he believes that such a move would jeapordize the unity that he is trying to achieve in order to put aside partizan differences to benefit the state as a whole.  Also, he doesn&#039;t believe that such a move is necessary at this time because the briefs already filed are sufficient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand that many feel it would be helpful for the Governor to step forward by filing a legal brief.  I would like to see that happen myself.  However, I can also see the position that he is in.  I have come to respect the Governor over time and realize that for him to step forward would be seen by the people of his state as taking sides against the majority.  If he is to continue to govern California effectively he believes that such a move would jeapordize the unity that he is trying to achieve in order to put aside partizan differences to benefit the state as a whole.  Also, he doesn&#8217;t believe that such a move is necessary at this time because the briefs already filed are sufficient.</p>
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		<title>By: drewski</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/schwarzenegger-wont-petition-court-on-prop-8/comment-page-3/#comment-30875</link>
		<dc:creator>drewski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 08:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4242#comment-30875</guid>
		<description>Arnie has thus far made himself a distant part of this whole issue.  Protest here, push there, but ultimately his actions make you question Maria more than him.  Maybe that&#039;s not &quot;fair&quot;, but her background should have prepared her for at least as much.

Feinstein/Schwarzenegger trade?  Feinstein has picked some funny times to be vocal or non-vocal in her gay advocacy.  Ditto Arnie.  Both have shown some pretty opportunistic behavior, though she has better history.

Gray Davis was turfed because of the issue of giving state driver&#039;s licenses to illegal residents.  Why do it?  Because, if you&#039;re in an accident, your insurance company wants to know who hit you.  Your cousin Pete could run his 150 into your Taurus, and you make money; in California, it was illegals who ditched vehicles which did damage to other vehicles and property.  If you live in Porterville, or Lindsay, or Hanford, you probably know about this.  This is small-town Central Valley.  You don&#039;t want to validate the presence of illegal aliens; you want your insurance company to pay you for your totaled car, your dead cattle, your crushed grapevines.  You paid insurance, you want a pay-out.  Simple capitalism, right?  That&#039;s why Gray Davis pushed to give driver&#039;s licenses to illegal aliens--so there was at least a legal path, and law-abiding Californians would not suffer unduly because of illegals.  Instead, this was used against him, and yet the damage goes on.  What has Arnie done to fix it?  Maybe nothing?

Leave the Feds and the Mormons and the other wingnuts out of this.  It&#039;s a California constitutional matter.  It will affect every American, but it&#039;s still a California matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arnie has thus far made himself a distant part of this whole issue.  Protest here, push there, but ultimately his actions make you question Maria more than him.  Maybe that&#8217;s not &#8220;fair&#8221;, but her background should have prepared her for at least as much.</p>
<p>Feinstein/Schwarzenegger trade?  Feinstein has picked some funny times to be vocal or non-vocal in her gay advocacy.  Ditto Arnie.  Both have shown some pretty opportunistic behavior, though she has better history.</p>
<p>Gray Davis was turfed because of the issue of giving state driver&#8217;s licenses to illegal residents.  Why do it?  Because, if you&#8217;re in an accident, your insurance company wants to know who hit you.  Your cousin Pete could run his 150 into your Taurus, and you make money; in California, it was illegals who ditched vehicles which did damage to other vehicles and property.  If you live in Porterville, or Lindsay, or Hanford, you probably know about this.  This is small-town Central Valley.  You don&#8217;t want to validate the presence of illegal aliens; you want your insurance company to pay you for your totaled car, your dead cattle, your crushed grapevines.  You paid insurance, you want a pay-out.  Simple capitalism, right?  That&#8217;s why Gray Davis pushed to give driver&#8217;s licenses to illegal aliens&#8211;so there was at least a legal path, and law-abiding Californians would not suffer unduly because of illegals.  Instead, this was used against him, and yet the damage goes on.  What has Arnie done to fix it?  Maybe nothing?</p>
<p>Leave the Feds and the Mormons and the other wingnuts out of this.  It&#8217;s a California constitutional matter.  It will affect every American, but it&#8217;s still a California matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Sammie</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/schwarzenegger-wont-petition-court-on-prop-8/comment-page-3/#comment-30874</link>
		<dc:creator>Sammie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 08:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4242#comment-30874</guid>
		<description>If Arnold doesn&#039;t want to uphold the anti-discrimination laws in California as he swore to do as governor, then it&#039;s time for him to go!  He doesn&#039;t have to approve of gays marrying in order to see that gays are being discriminated against and denied equal rights under the law.  That&#039;s all there is to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Arnold doesn&#8217;t want to uphold the anti-discrimination laws in California as he swore to do as governor, then it&#8217;s time for him to go!  He doesn&#8217;t have to approve of gays marrying in order to see that gays are being discriminated against and denied equal rights under the law.  That&#8217;s all there is to it.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/schwarzenegger-wont-petition-court-on-prop-8/comment-page-3/#comment-30873</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 07:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4242#comment-30873</guid>
		<description>Are you kidding? Obama would be nuts to touch Prop. 8 with a ten foot pole. Especially when he doesn&#039;t have to.

It took Nancy Pelosi a whole week to issue a statement condemning the passage of the amendment. And her district includes the Castro neighbornood of San Francisco. Because of federal politics, she can&#039;t even comment on an issue that affects many of her own constituents. The &quot;Blue Dogs&quot; and &quot;Dixiecrats&quot; in the House wanted her to keep quiet because they&#039;re afraid it might be used against them in 2010. And knowing the Republicans, it most certainly will.

Lets face it, the Democratic landslide that propelled Obama to the White House has everything to do with Republican incompetence and corruption. It doesn&#039;t mean this country is - nationally - any less socially conservative than it was in 2004.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you kidding? Obama would be nuts to touch Prop. 8 with a ten foot pole. Especially when he doesn&#8217;t have to.</p>
<p>It took Nancy Pelosi a whole week to issue a statement condemning the passage of the amendment. And her district includes the Castro neighbornood of San Francisco. Because of federal politics, she can&#8217;t even comment on an issue that affects many of her own constituents. The &#8220;Blue Dogs&#8221; and &#8220;Dixiecrats&#8221; in the House wanted her to keep quiet because they&#8217;re afraid it might be used against them in 2010. And knowing the Republicans, it most certainly will.</p>
<p>Lets face it, the Democratic landslide that propelled Obama to the White House has everything to do with Republican incompetence and corruption. It doesn&#8217;t mean this country is &#8211; nationally &#8211; any less socially conservative than it was in 2004.</p>
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		<title>By: AR</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/schwarzenegger-wont-petition-court-on-prop-8/comment-page-3/#comment-30867</link>
		<dc:creator>AR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 06:24:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4242#comment-30867</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s face it, Schwarzenegger is the biggest COWARD of all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s face it, Schwarzenegger is the biggest COWARD of all.</p>
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		<title>By: drewski</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/schwarzenegger-wont-petition-court-on-prop-8/comment-page-3/#comment-30860</link>
		<dc:creator>drewski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 05:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4242#comment-30860</guid>
		<description>OK, though many want a comment from Obama, he is so far IRRELEVANT to this, as are the US Congress and the US Constitution.  We&#039;re in a federal republic; our states have less power than German or Australian states, far less than Canada&#039;s provinces, but US Constitution still explicitly defers to the states.  Sadly, DOMA excludes consideration of gay marriage as a civil rights issue, until such time as either Congress or the Supreme Court find otherwise.  It is what it is and, as Lou Reed said in &quot;Street Hassle,&quot; penny for a wish, but wishin&#039; don&#039;t make it so.

There is abundant reason to think that Prop 8 will be shot down by the California Supreme Court.  No, they&#039;re not going to be eager to do that; but neither are they going to be eager to invalidate their own action from earlier this year.  Prop 8 can&#039;t stand if Prop 22 was a violation of civil rights.  

The case(s) may have to work through the state court system, just as the gay marriage cases did.  In some respects, it would be easier to boot it directly to the Supreme Court, since this is a retread of earlier litigation.  The Supreme Court can easily invalidate Prop 8 because it&#039;s the same civil rights infringement as Prop 22 was.  Sadly for the GOP and the Mormons, this is already black letter law, and the justices would completely discredit themselves if they decided that what was a civil right on Monday could magically stop being a civil right on Tuesday.  Don&#039;t Republicans always say that judges should follow the Constitution?  That would seem to apply at state level, in which case they have to acquiesce to the invalidation of 8.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, though many want a comment from Obama, he is so far IRRELEVANT to this, as are the US Congress and the US Constitution.  We&#8217;re in a federal republic; our states have less power than German or Australian states, far less than Canada&#8217;s provinces, but US Constitution still explicitly defers to the states.  Sadly, DOMA excludes consideration of gay marriage as a civil rights issue, until such time as either Congress or the Supreme Court find otherwise.  It is what it is and, as Lou Reed said in &#8220;Street Hassle,&#8221; penny for a wish, but wishin&#8217; don&#8217;t make it so.</p>
<p>There is abundant reason to think that Prop 8 will be shot down by the California Supreme Court.  No, they&#8217;re not going to be eager to do that; but neither are they going to be eager to invalidate their own action from earlier this year.  Prop 8 can&#8217;t stand if Prop 22 was a violation of civil rights.  </p>
<p>The case(s) may have to work through the state court system, just as the gay marriage cases did.  In some respects, it would be easier to boot it directly to the Supreme Court, since this is a retread of earlier litigation.  The Supreme Court can easily invalidate Prop 8 because it&#8217;s the same civil rights infringement as Prop 22 was.  Sadly for the GOP and the Mormons, this is already black letter law, and the justices would completely discredit themselves if they decided that what was a civil right on Monday could magically stop being a civil right on Tuesday.  Don&#8217;t Republicans always say that judges should follow the Constitution?  That would seem to apply at state level, in which case they have to acquiesce to the invalidation of 8.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich in TN</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/schwarzenegger-wont-petition-court-on-prop-8/comment-page-3/#comment-30858</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich in TN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 05:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4242#comment-30858</guid>
		<description>Marriage between a man and a woman is the umbrella that the religious want to use to hide the real reason they don&#039;t want us to have Gay Marriage. Separation of Church and state keeps them from revealing their real reason.
It is unfortunate that we have to tolerate the Political dance that attempts to get everyone to like the politician for all reasons to stay in office. This reminds me of our childhood stance of &quot;Not Me&quot; that Schwarzenegger is using. I was very disappointed to learn that he was running as  a republican.  Their platform is so unkind to us. It&#039;s  nothing like what I imagined our democracy or Christianity either one  stands  for.  I suspect this will take a while until we possibly see more liberal Judges on the Federal Supreme Court. At least we have the medical / scientific community and the more educated Christian Community behind us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marriage between a man and a woman is the umbrella that the religious want to use to hide the real reason they don&#8217;t want us to have Gay Marriage. Separation of Church and state keeps them from revealing their real reason.<br />
It is unfortunate that we have to tolerate the Political dance that attempts to get everyone to like the politician for all reasons to stay in office. This reminds me of our childhood stance of &#8220;Not Me&#8221; that Schwarzenegger is using. I was very disappointed to learn that he was running as  a republican.  Their platform is so unkind to us. It&#8217;s  nothing like what I imagined our democracy or Christianity either one  stands  for.  I suspect this will take a while until we possibly see more liberal Judges on the Federal Supreme Court. At least we have the medical / scientific community and the more educated Christian Community behind us.</p>
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