Subscribe to Breaking News
Loading ...Risks weighed in taking Prop 8 to 2010 vote
01.26.2009 8:35am EST
(Los Angeles, California) Gay rights activists are weighing the wisdom of rushing in front of voters a repeal of the state ballot measure that banned gay marriage.
While two initiatives seeking to undo Proposition 8 – the voter-approved measure – already have been submitted to the Secretary of State, pro-gay marriage leaders say 2010 may be too soon to bring the issue back before voters.“There is one thing worse than losing Prop. 8, and that would be losing again,” said Chad Griffin, a Los Angeles political consultant who organized Hollywood’s opposition to the ban. He was speaking to about 400 activists who gathered for a statewide planning summit here Saturday.
Although several legal challenges are pending before the California Supreme Court, the option of another ballot fight has been discussed as a backup strategy since Proposition 8 passed with 52 percent of the vote on Nov. 4. The court could render a decision as early as June.
If the Supreme Court upholds the measure, that would leave same-sex marriage supporters with a viable, but very tight window in which to prepare and pull off a November 2010 rematch, said John Henning, executive director of the gay marriage group Love Honor Cherish.
“The deadline for us to be gathering signatures for a November ballot initiative would actually be this fall,” Henning said. “We have to raise money, we have to train people how to gather these signatures and we have to get 10,000 people out doing something they may not be comfortable doing.”
One of the initiatives submitted to the state for approval this month, launched by a gay rights group in Davis, would repeal Proposition 8 outright. The second, initiated by two Los Angeles residents, would eliminate marriage as a state-sanctioned institution and replace it with domestic partnerships for couples gay and straight.
Kate Kendell, executive director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights, said she understands the urgency gay marriage supporters feel. But ultimately, a decision on timing would have to be based on “what makes the most strategic and political sense” and “a full appreciation of the enormity of such an undertaking,” she said.
Apart from the practical mechanics, another factor to consider is whether it would be possible to raise enough money for a serious campaign in a poor economy, Kendell said. Spending for and against Proposition 8 exceeded $75 million, making it the most expensive ballot fight on a social issue in the nation’s history.
David Binder, a San Francisco pollster who conducted a postelection analysis of why voters supported Proposition 8, said aiming for November 2010 has several advantages for same-sex marriage supporters.
For one, the disappointing outcome of the Proposition 8 fight has energized a lot of gay marriage supporters and the momentum could be lost by waiting two more years, Binder said. Also, California voters will be going to the polls next year to elect a new governor to replace Arnold Schwarzenegger, so turnout is likely to be high.
On the downside, passage of the measure, which marked the first time that voters were asked to take away marriage from gay couples who could legally wed, indicates that large numbers of voters remain firmly opposed to same-sex marriage. There may not be time to move enough of them to change their minds in 21 months, Binder said.
“There is significant groundwork that needs to be done, and I don’t know if it can be done that quickly,” he said. “You want to strike while the iron is hot, but moving too quickly and then losing would have an extremely damaging effect.”
Despite the message of caution, several groups already have started raising money and organizing supporters with an eye toward next year. The Courage Campaign, an online political advocacy group, held a training camp for gay marriage activists on Sunday modeled after the grass roots organizing method President Barack Obama used early in his campaign for the White House.
“I don’t think anybody knows when is the best time to go back,” Courage Campaign chairman Rick Jacobs said. “My philosophy is having it go every time, and eventually we will win.”
there’s truth to this. we have to act smartly and not out of anger. 2010 is too soon.
I hope that the California Supreme Court will do the right thing and that another referendum will not be necessary. But if the Court rules the wrong way, the referendum should be held in 2010. Otherwise, the movement will lose momentum. If we are suffering in a bad economy, so is the other side. The Mormons may think twice about their being the moneybags for hate. And maybe other minorities will follow the lead of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and the other legal groups that have filed briefs with the California Supreme Court and do the right thing.
In this country, nobody has won civil rights at the ballot box. Our constitution is designed to protect minorities against the tyranny of the majority. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could convince voters not to be prejudiced against those of different races, religions and sexual orientation? But time and again it’s been shown that it’s just not realistic to expect them to be faithful to the American ideal of equality. The courts are there to enforce the constitutional protections for equality. We must repeal DOMA and all these anti-gay marriage laws and amendments through the court system. It’s slow and expensive, but it’s the only way to win this battle. That is how slavery was ended, and Jim Crow laws were repealed, and women got the vote. None of these advances were the results of popular votes. The rise of fundamentalism of all stripes in this country and abroad has shown that a strong egalitarian constitution is the only thing that stands between us and oppression. DOMA is unconstitutional, and won’t stand a legal test, when that day comes, and it’s soon! And when that roadblock is gone, then we can proceed to invalidate all of the state DOMA’s and marriage amendments on constitutional grounds. And they will fall. They every one of them defy the equal protection clause of the federal constitution.
HHmmm. I’m not sure it’s too soon. Take a look at the new poll coming out of Florida. I think there are a lot of people out there who didn’t “quite” understand which way they were voting due to heavy handed language, and a lot didn’t really “feel” the issue and how it really affected others lives. The anger and pain displayed after the election has woken a lot of people up who just weren’t interested before, because it didn’t affect them. People I have talked to were shocked when they learned how un-equal our situation really is. Cashing in on those people while the topic is hot and California is electing a new governor bringing enough people to the polls. 2012 will put Obama on the spot and we’ll be tossed to the wolves again, and a normal midterm allows the special interests to dominate.
Putting this to a re-vote is illogical. We can’t seriously maintain that civil rights should not be decided at the ballot box, on the one hand, and then bring a civil rights issue to the ballot box, in the hopes that voters vote our way. This has to be decided by the courts, once and for all. Bringing this to a revote would legitimize voting on civil rights issues, and set the groundwork for an endless chain of revotes until the majority finally has its way. We should not waste a penny on this effort. The Courts are the only legitimate way to go.
Have faith in the Supreme Court. Protection of minority rights is their job.
If that fails, perhaps, it would be better to wait a few years. People’s opinions on gay marriage are getting better every day.
The passing of time will help, too, as the elderly finally die off or are too mentally incapacitated to vote. New voters will be reaching voting age, and they tend to favor gay marriage, so the problem will correct itself with time anyway.
This is EXACTLY what the religious loonies want: The Gay Community sinking to their level! Don’t fall for the “great people’s referendum” bullshit folks! It only makes us look desperate! Nothing more, nothing less!
I hope and pray that the Ca Supreme Court does what is fair AGAIN.
Also we need a National GLBT Rights bill.
I really want to stay married to my partner of 14 years..
Also Civil Rights should not be determined by popular vote!
Tom in Long Beach CA.
Hold the vote in 2011, not 2012, because then the droves of the same black people will return to vote for Obama, and you know how smart they were about the issue…
If that 70% figure is true, only 30% were smart about the issue.
So reduce the black people coming out, hold it in 2011.
I realize that some black people can be educated, but not the really stupid gangsta ones.
“The second, initiated would eliminate marriage as a state-sanctioned institution and replace it with domestic partnerships for couples gay and straight….”
The only way this second ‘option’ could work is if it also included language that eliminated ‘marriage rights’ for those who are, by their new definition, ‘Married.’ Otherwise this option would be creating even more seperate and unequal couples – which is our whole point here!
I agree with those who state that the COURTS must uphold the constitution and that we can’t rely on the tyrannical majority. When it has come to civil rights, the Majority has NEVER done the right thing.
Also, for ‘Anonymous’: Take your racist B.S. elsewhere. You’re part of the problem, not the solution.
Ok Anon,
your comment might have a point, but to classify black citizens as gangsters is rude, and we gay people should know better.
In any event, the problem is not that blacks hate gays, but that blacks tend to buy into the religious brainwashing of their rabidly anti-gay clery. I think certainly lack of education opportunities for black people could be a root cause of this issue. It makes them less educated, less wealthy and in need of religious charity and more readily credulous towards their clergy.
I reject the notion that race in and of itself determines how people think.
I wish more black gay people would speak on this issue and make an attempt to speak out in black communities. On the other hand, they would experience hardship, if they came out.
Anonymous Said: “I realize that some black people can be educated, but not the really stupid gangsta ones.”
Here is the problem with many in the black community on this issue (1) The Condalisa syndrome. There are more and more women of the black community that are getting educated on a level not seen in many years. Why?. Because they have learned they are going to have to depend more and more on them selves for support in the future. The idea of dependable marriage when millions of their potential
marriage partners are in jail for crimes they have committed, or already have children with multiple baby mommas vastly reduces the pool in which to choose.
(2) There are those who are not in jail but have decided to join street gangs, sell drugs for a living. These young men have the potential of getting busted at any time, or run the risk of being killed by their gang counterparts.
(3) We have all heard of the term “on the down low” this “term” was basically
coined by the black community. As most of us know it’s when males who appear to be straight have secret sex with other males.
I have a friend in Calif. who some time ago did a paper for a sociology class at UCLA. His long research revealed the down low syndrome is far more pervasive then ever thought
It exists primarily because to be gay (on the black street) is to be considered weak.
When you are perceived as weak, no matter how masculine you appear to be, you are a venerable target.
If you are a member of this community, straight or gay you will never advocate for anything-gay period.
If you as a member of the black community and happen to be a church goer, the vast number of black churches are extremely conservative. Black ministers know the plight of their communities.
Ministers know that they are
in big trouble if the church stops expanding or declines in membership.
Imagine donations getting so low that they have to go out and get a REAL job.
As a result anything that would condone, justify, or sympathize with LGBT causes is out of the question.
It’s more than just being against Gay marriage, it’s about personal survival for them.
It’s a terrible dilemma for the prop 8 deserters, but I think this is what it is mostly about.
This is exactly our problem. We are constantly second guessing ourselves, constantly worried about what the other side thinks, constantly always trying to determine the best political moment for something. We are so divided amongst ourselves its amazing we ever get anything accomplished.
You know what people? If we don’t get together on this thing and make it happen, then it never will.
No more excuses.
No more wishy washy leaders.
No more being afraid of what will or won’t happen.
No more not putting gay couples in political ads! For God’s sake!
If we don’t put this up on the ballot we’ll never know. If it does fail, then it fails and we put it on again in 2012. And again in 2014. and again and again until it passes.
I don’t care what the religious right thinks, I don’t care what manipulative move they want us to make, I don’t care about our “leaders” political paranoia.
If you’re so ashamed about asking for what you want and telling people about what you need then go back into the closet and turn the reins over to somebody who doesn’t need to constantly look for excuses to apologize for the way they were born. Personally I think THIS is exactly what the religious right wants out of us… To stay conflicted, divided and utterly ineffective.
Enough is enough. I’m sick of this crap.
Let’s get together, take a stand and be proud. If we fail, we fail together.
There needs to be a measure on the ballot to repeal Proposition 8 until it passes. The right wingers have done this with abortion notification and keep getting closer each time.
Also, keep in mind that some large contributors to the Yes on 8 campaign took out second mortgages on their homes. This won’t be a source of money they will be able to tap for contributions next time around. And given the backlash against Yes on 8 donors, they may be more reluctant to contribute to a campaign to keep Prop. 8 unless they can donate anonymously.
To “Anonymous”
Your comments are ridiculous and racist. I knew the election of Obama would not silence you and those of your ilk. There are fools in all races, social groups, and as you have proven, sexual orientation.