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	<title>Comments on: Proposal to strike &#8216;marriage&#8217; from Calif. law</title>
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	<description>The daily news source for the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community</description>
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		<title>By: NativeDude</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/proposal-to-strike-marriage-from-calif-law/comment-page-2/#comment-52421</link>
		<dc:creator>NativeDude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 09:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=5897#comment-52421</guid>
		<description>Actually, &quot;marriage&quot; isn&#039;t the religious sacrament.  &quot;Holy Matrimony&quot; is the religious sacrament, &quot;marriage&quot; is a legal term.  Over the years, we Americans have melded the two together to mean the same thing, but they don&#039;t.  If &quot;Marriage&quot; was a religious sacrament, there&#039;d be an enormous uproar over allowing non-religious persons... such as agnostics and atheists... to obtain one.  Think about it...

As for this idea to remove the word &quot;marriage&quot; from all state laws and replace it with &quot;domestic partnership&quot;... good intentions are behind it, I&#039;m sure... but it&#039;s poorly thought out and would end up backfiring if passed.  Other states can simply choose not to honor domestic partnerships, and in the meantime, we&#039;ve backed away from the fight for full and complete equality.  And honestly, does anyone really expect any other states to follow suit and purge &quot;marriage&quot; from all state laws, replacing it with &quot;domestic partnership&quot;?  There&#039;d be riots over semantics in every single state, and a hell of a lot of really pissed off bridezillas!

My lover and I don&#039;t want to be &quot;domestically partnered&quot;... We want to be MARRIED, and we want it to be recognized as legal and valid in all 50 states.  It&#039;s a civil right.  Period.  No amount of &quot;spin&quot; will change that fact, and nothing less is real equality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, &#8220;marriage&#8221; isn&#8217;t the religious sacrament.  &#8220;Holy Matrimony&#8221; is the religious sacrament, &#8220;marriage&#8221; is a legal term.  Over the years, we Americans have melded the two together to mean the same thing, but they don&#8217;t.  If &#8220;Marriage&#8221; was a religious sacrament, there&#8217;d be an enormous uproar over allowing non-religious persons&#8230; such as agnostics and atheists&#8230; to obtain one.  Think about it&#8230;</p>
<p>As for this idea to remove the word &#8220;marriage&#8221; from all state laws and replace it with &#8220;domestic partnership&#8221;&#8230; good intentions are behind it, I&#8217;m sure&#8230; but it&#8217;s poorly thought out and would end up backfiring if passed.  Other states can simply choose not to honor domestic partnerships, and in the meantime, we&#8217;ve backed away from the fight for full and complete equality.  And honestly, does anyone really expect any other states to follow suit and purge &#8220;marriage&#8221; from all state laws, replacing it with &#8220;domestic partnership&#8221;?  There&#8217;d be riots over semantics in every single state, and a hell of a lot of really pissed off bridezillas!</p>
<p>My lover and I don&#8217;t want to be &#8220;domestically partnered&#8221;&#8230; We want to be MARRIED, and we want it to be recognized as legal and valid in all 50 states.  It&#8217;s a civil right.  Period.  No amount of &#8220;spin&#8221; will change that fact, and nothing less is real equality.</p>
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		<title>By: David S</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/proposal-to-strike-marriage-from-calif-law/comment-page-2/#comment-52415</link>
		<dc:creator>David S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 07:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=5897#comment-52415</guid>
		<description>The problem with this is that then heterosexual couples would lose the 1,340+ federal rights that come along wth civil marriage as well as recognition of their relationships internationally as well as in 20 + states domestically.

This approach makes the same mistake religious conservatives make--- both conflate civil marriage with religious marriage.  Civil marriages in the U.S. are already completely seperate entitites from religious marriage.  Atheists get married.  A license from the state is what is required.  It has nothing to do with anyone&#039;s religion.

This is NOT true in much of Europe where there are often state churches.  For example, when Norway passed marriage equality they instructed the Lutheran Church-- the state church of Norway, what to do saying they must allow local congregations to choose to marry same sex couples. 

Nothing of the sort is possible in the U.S. where we have no state religion and we have seperation of church and state.

This approach is nonsensical.  Civil marriage has long existed in religiously diverse societies and this has often incuded both same and opposite sex couples both crossculturally and transhistorically.

In fact, the oldest civil marriage records we have are clay tablets documenting civil marriages and related decisions of the courts from ancient Sumeria around 3,000 years ago and yes they include both same sex and opposite sex couples under the same civil contract just as many other cultures have done by contract and/or cultural tradition before and/or since.

As it says in Ezekiel, &quot;there is nothing new under the sun&quot;.  That includes same sex marriage which is only new to us because of the wests uniquely extreme heterosexism and homophobia which had been exported to much of the world via colonialism making it seem universal while transhistorically and cross culturally it appears the obverse to be closer to the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with this is that then heterosexual couples would lose the 1,340+ federal rights that come along wth civil marriage as well as recognition of their relationships internationally as well as in 20 + states domestically.</p>
<p>This approach makes the same mistake religious conservatives make&#8212; both conflate civil marriage with religious marriage.  Civil marriages in the U.S. are already completely seperate entitites from religious marriage.  Atheists get married.  A license from the state is what is required.  It has nothing to do with anyone&#8217;s religion.</p>
<p>This is NOT true in much of Europe where there are often state churches.  For example, when Norway passed marriage equality they instructed the Lutheran Church&#8211; the state church of Norway, what to do saying they must allow local congregations to choose to marry same sex couples. </p>
<p>Nothing of the sort is possible in the U.S. where we have no state religion and we have seperation of church and state.</p>
<p>This approach is nonsensical.  Civil marriage has long existed in religiously diverse societies and this has often incuded both same and opposite sex couples both crossculturally and transhistorically.</p>
<p>In fact, the oldest civil marriage records we have are clay tablets documenting civil marriages and related decisions of the courts from ancient Sumeria around 3,000 years ago and yes they include both same sex and opposite sex couples under the same civil contract just as many other cultures have done by contract and/or cultural tradition before and/or since.</p>
<p>As it says in Ezekiel, &#8220;there is nothing new under the sun&#8221;.  That includes same sex marriage which is only new to us because of the wests uniquely extreme heterosexism and homophobia which had been exported to much of the world via colonialism making it seem universal while transhistorically and cross culturally it appears the obverse to be closer to the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: Queercents &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The so called &#8220;gay tax&#8221; paid on inheritance</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/proposal-to-strike-marriage-from-calif-law/comment-page-1/#comment-50040</link>
		<dc:creator>Queercents &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The so called &#8220;gay tax&#8221; paid on inheritance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=5897#comment-50040</guid>
		<description>[...] other, as yet unrelated, story is about an initiative in California to strike the word “marriage” from all state laws and substitute “domestic partnership” while maintaining all the same [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] other, as yet unrelated, story is about an initiative in California to strike the word “marriage” from all state laws and substitute “domestic partnership” while maintaining all the same [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/proposal-to-strike-marriage-from-calif-law/comment-page-1/#comment-46786</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=5897#comment-46786</guid>
		<description>This is a disastrous move, which will play right into the hands of opponents of same-sex marriage.  It &quot;proves&quot; that queers and our friends really are anti-family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a disastrous move, which will play right into the hands of opponents of same-sex marriage.  It &#8220;proves&#8221; that queers and our friends really are anti-family.</p>
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		<title>By: Krindle</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/proposal-to-strike-marriage-from-calif-law/comment-page-1/#comment-46770</link>
		<dc:creator>Krindle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=5897#comment-46770</guid>
		<description>I support this because I support equality. Either give everyone a marriage, or give everyone a domestic partnership. The government should not differentiate between ssm and opposite sex marriages. 

I would love to have the word marriage, but as long as were on par with our heterosexual counterparts...im FINE! Another reason why I support this is becasue it further removes the church from our government. Marriage is a sacrament the government has no buisness tending to, even though it see it as civil institution. 

Whats next civil communion, for some people and crackers for others. Get the church out of the government. 

Domestic Partnerships for everybody. I will also support the amendment to overturn prop 8 that will likely land on the ballot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I support this because I support equality. Either give everyone a marriage, or give everyone a domestic partnership. The government should not differentiate between ssm and opposite sex marriages. </p>
<p>I would love to have the word marriage, but as long as were on par with our heterosexual counterparts&#8230;im FINE! Another reason why I support this is becasue it further removes the church from our government. Marriage is a sacrament the government has no buisness tending to, even though it see it as civil institution. </p>
<p>Whats next civil communion, for some people and crackers for others. Get the church out of the government. </p>
<p>Domestic Partnerships for everybody. I will also support the amendment to overturn prop 8 that will likely land on the ballot.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank W</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/proposal-to-strike-marriage-from-calif-law/comment-page-1/#comment-46748</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=5897#comment-46748</guid>
		<description>As an ardent supporter of gay marriage, I do not support this. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a bad idea. I just don&#039;t see it catching on nationwide and I don&#039;t want to be domestic-partnered in CA when people in MA can be married. I want full equality throughout U.S. I do not consider the word &quot;marriage&quot; to be owned by any religion. Let them make up some other word---how about &quot;faith-base partnered&quot;. For the state to truly get out of the &quot;marriage&quot; business--that means married, or domestic-partnered people don&#039;t get any special rights or benefits. I don&#039;t see that happening. I want FULL GAY MARRIAGE EQUALITY including use of the common word to describe our relationships.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an ardent supporter of gay marriage, I do not support this. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a bad idea. I just don&#8217;t see it catching on nationwide and I don&#8217;t want to be domestic-partnered in CA when people in MA can be married. I want full equality throughout U.S. I do not consider the word &#8220;marriage&#8221; to be owned by any religion. Let them make up some other word&#8212;how about &#8220;faith-base partnered&#8221;. For the state to truly get out of the &#8220;marriage&#8221; business&#8211;that means married, or domestic-partnered people don&#8217;t get any special rights or benefits. I don&#8217;t see that happening. I want FULL GAY MARRIAGE EQUALITY including use of the common word to describe our relationships.</p>
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		<title>By: Guy in SF</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/proposal-to-strike-marriage-from-calif-law/comment-page-1/#comment-46746</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy in SF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=5897#comment-46746</guid>
		<description>Blank petitions are available on their website as a PDF document.

http://www.dompar.org/Domestic_Partnership.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blank petitions are available on their website as a PDF document.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dompar.org/Domestic_Partnership.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.dompar.org/Domestic_Partnership.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: AJ (diff one that the other AJ)</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/proposal-to-strike-marriage-from-calif-law/comment-page-1/#comment-46737</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ (diff one that the other AJ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=5897#comment-46737</guid>
		<description>Signatures for a California ballot measure cannot be aquired through a website to my knowledge. The Secretary of State has to be able to verify the signature. That is why no forwarded e-mail petitions in California have any weight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Signatures for a California ballot measure cannot be aquired through a website to my knowledge. The Secretary of State has to be able to verify the signature. That is why no forwarded e-mail petitions in California have any weight.</p>
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		<title>By: Amber</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/proposal-to-strike-marriage-from-calif-law/comment-page-1/#comment-46715</link>
		<dc:creator>Amber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=5897#comment-46715</guid>
		<description>Below is a link to their facebook page, which seems to be the exsisting &quot;hub&quot;. I have also included a note from Ali Shams regarding the collection of signatures (note is dated today)

&quot;So we are about to go official in collecting signatures. We are almost done setting up our website: dompar.org. There will be directions on how you can become part of this important movement in solving this problematic issue. We appreciate all the feedback thus far.&quot;

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42833687407&amp;ref=nf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Below is a link to their facebook page, which seems to be the exsisting &#8220;hub&#8221;. I have also included a note from Ali Shams regarding the collection of signatures (note is dated today)</p>
<p>&#8220;So we are about to go official in collecting signatures. We are almost done setting up our website: dompar.org. There will be directions on how you can become part of this important movement in solving this problematic issue. We appreciate all the feedback thus far.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42833687407&#038;ref=nf" rel="nofollow">http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42833687407&#038;ref=nf</a></p>
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		<title>By: LOrion</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/proposal-to-strike-marriage-from-calif-law/comment-page-1/#comment-46712</link>
		<dc:creator>LOrion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=5897#comment-46712</guid>
		<description>Heard this yesterday... WHERE DO I SIGN?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heard this yesterday&#8230; WHERE DO I SIGN?</p>
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