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Loading ...Prop 8 afternoon update: Witness says gays face job bias
01.26.2010 3:56pm EST
(San Francisco) A political scientist testified Tuesday in a trial challenging California’s ban on same-sex marriage that gays and lesbians face significant discrimination in the workplace.
Claremont McKenna College Professor Kenneth Miller said under cross-examination that he did not know how frequently gay Americans are fired or harassed at work but assumed it happens often.Miller was called as a defense witness in the trial, the first in a federal court to examine whether decisions by states denying gays the right to wed violate their constitutional rights.
On Monday, Miller testified that the gay rights movement enjoys substantial political power in California that helps shield them from bias.
Lawyers for two same-sex couples suing to overturn the voter-approved ban known as Proposition 8 are trying to prove that deep-seated prejudice motivated the measure.
Plaintiffs’ attorney David Boies asked Miller, “You do agree there are some gays and lesbians who are fired from their jobs, refused jobs and paid less because of their sexual orientation?”
“I have no reason to disagree with that. I expect that’s the case,” Miller replied.
Boies also introduced some of Miller’s writings that criticized California’s initiative process, saying it had historically been used to target unpopular minorities. The lawyer asserted churches opposed to same-sex marriage and voters’ religious views played a big role in the passage of Proposition 8.
“You are saying the general principle that a religious majority should not be able to use law to impose their views on others is a generally accepted principle in political science?” Boies asked, citing Miller’s work.
Miller replied, “There might be exceptions, but that is a generally accepted principle.”
His voice occasionally rising, Boies also prodded Miller to explain why voters in a state known for being gay-friendly overwhelming supported Barack Obama yet denied gays the right to wed.
“I believe religiosity is a critical factor, among other things,” Miller said. “I didn’t list any other that were critical, but I haven’t done any other investigation whether those factors were critical.”
Miller acknowledged that about half of the research materials he used in preparing his testimony was supplied by defense attorneys.
watch us lose this case anyway.
and he was a witness for the DEFENSE! I don’t see how we cannot win this one. But we will probably loose where it really counts, when the matter is taken up by the supreme court.
He also stated that the ‘initiative process allows religious majorities to take away the rights of minorities’ and that the Federal Courts are the place to decide. … sort of.
It’s going to go to SCOTUS, win or lose. We can only pray that it’ll take a couple of years, and that there’ll be some resignations, deaths (or impeachments, with this latest assault on the Constitution) within the conservative majority.
Roberts favors narrowly tailored rulings, so I’m hoping this will be one of those. It probably will be against us, but maybe it will only apply to California.
Can they rule against us under the constitution? In my opinion, they can’t. It will be one of those rulings that every jurist in the country knows is nonsense.
Talk to any lesbian or gay middle or high school student about the power of gays in California. They can tell you how that $43 million prevented them from being mocked, ridiculed, bullied and beaten by the bigoted children of so-called Christians.
On the surface this is going so badly for the H8′ers that I wonder if the defense is going for a mistrial. They may also be relying on SCOTUS to rule blindly in their favor, but the Supremes could refuse to hear the case and let the CA verdict stand.
Even as much as I deplore the human race for it’s inhumanity to man…. I am hopefull (YES hopefull, naive as it may seem) that if and when this case gets to the SCOTUS that we will prevail.
Granted, we may in fact lose. But, I am an optimist (even though, years of experience have taught me to be otherwise)
The battle rages on, and I am ever-ready to take up arms against our enemies.
Take heart my brothers and sisters, our cause is JUST!
“Watch us lose this case anyway”. I refuse to adopt either negativity or optimism regarding this trial. I prefer to take a wait and see attitude.
The Judge is not an idiot. His job is to listen to both sides and review all the evidence then come to a conclusion. We had 17 witnesses and are backed by a huge list of professional orgs.. They had 2 witnesses that stuck around and they pretty much supported US. I don’t see how the Judge could come to any other conclusion but to find in our favor. While I do not hold my breath about the outcome, I do feel that we have stated the best case and have a shot at winning. When it goes to the SCOTUS, we will have the same strong case and they will still look like the scared and ignorant bunch they are.
SIMPLEEEEE!!!!!! Gay men and women in the military…….job discrimmination from the highest level!
P.S God bless all the Gay men and women in the United States Armed Forces
That we are winning points in testimony has an impact on the outcome of this trial? I will believe we can win when we do. Until then I expect the same old same old Lip service.
regarding this case going to SCOTUS, what happens in the privacy of our bedrooms lost the first time in Bowers v Hardwick before for it prevailed in Lawrence v Texas. Both very similar cases.
I understand (very WELL) why people are nervous about the outcome of this trial, and also its outcome at the SCOTUS level. We have no choice here, we MUST fight this battle. To win is everything, to loose…. Well…. we will just keep on fighting. Hell, I have been in this battle as long as anyone, and I am more than willing to keep it up as long as it takes. To quote a former President of the United States (whom I LOATHE, by the way) BRING IT ON!