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Loading ...Presbyterians again reject gay clergy
04.27.2009 12:11pm EDT
(New York City) Efforts to allow gays and lesbians to serve as clergy in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) were defeated again, sealed by votes Saturday.
But the margin of defeat – the final tally has yet to be determined – is already guaranteed to be much closer than in previous years. That is encouraging for gay clergy supporters and concerning to opponents, with both sides expecting the issue to be revisited in the future.Last summer, the 2.3 million-member denomination’s General Assembly voted to drop a constitutional requirement that would-be ministers, deacons and elders live in “fidelity within the covenant of marriage between and a man and a woman, or chastity in singleness.”
Any such change requires approval by a majority of the nation’s 173 presbyteries, or regional church bodies. Those votes have been trickling in for months, and on Saturday enough “no” votes had been recorded to clinch the measure’s defeat.
At least two presbyteries – Northern Plains, which covers all of North Dakota and part of Minnesota, and Boise, in Idaho – voted against the amendment Saturday, according to activist groups and an independent Presbyterian Web site, Presbyweb, that has been tracking the votes.
Before Saturday, the total was 68 presbyteries for and 86 opposed, or one shy of the margin needed for defeat, according to Presbyterian News Service, the denomination’s official press arm.
Previous efforts to delete the “fidelity and chastity” provision failed at the presbytery level by votes of 57-115 in 1997-1998 and 46-127 in 2001-2002.
Twenty-eight of the 127 presbyteries that voted no in 2001-2002 have voted in favor of this year’s amendment. Many of them, supporters of the change pointed out, were in traditionally conservative states such as Alabama, Georgia, North Carolina and Tennessee.
One surprising exception was the San Francisco presbytery, which voted no.
“The tide is turning before our very eyes in understanding that GLBT men and women are loved by God and called to ministry,” said the Rev. Janet Edwards, co-moderator of More Light Presbyterians, which supports changing the ordination standards. “The church is catching up with the love Jesus has for all God’s children.”
Like many mainline Protestant denominations, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) has been fighting for years over Biblical authority and the place of gays and lesbians in the church.
Paul Detterman, executive director of Presbyterians for Renewal, a conservative group, said he was pleased “the church has once again voted to uphold historical biblical standards of ordination” but concerned that the vote is shaping up to be closer than in the past.
“It doesn’t seem that minds have changed as much as voting patterns have changed this time around,” he said. “I haven’t encountered many people who’ve said, `God has really changed my mind about this.’ If this comes up again, as I’m sure it will, I hope we can reframe the conversation.”
The denomination, based in Louisville, Ky., adopted the “chastity and fidelity” clause in 1996, replacing language that had the same effect: prohibiting non-celibate gays and lesbians from ministry.
The proposed new language would have demanded candidates “pledge themselves to live lives obedient to Jesus Christ the Head of the Church, striving to follow where he leads through the witness of the Scriptures, and to understand the Scriptures through the instruction of the Confessions.”
By agreeing to that, “they declare their fidelity to the standards of the Church.” A presbytery or church council then would have been able to decide whether a gay or lesbian person meets that standard.
Remaining presbyteries have until June 28 to vote.
I do not understand why gay people (and allies of gay people) would stay in an organization that clearly hates them.
They’ll eventually change their ways. It’s coming. And–I can’t help myself–once again, even in San Francisco, California’s latent homophobia manifests itself again. Meanwhile, according to this article, support increased “in traditionally conservative states such as Alabama, Georgia, North Carolina and Tennessee.” The message? If you’re Presbyterian and gay, you might be better off in Nashville or Charlotte or Atlanta than in San Francisco. Again, California, WTF?
If they really wanted their ministers to “pledge themselves to live lives obedient to Jesus Christ the Head of the Church,” they would tell them to leave their wives, children and families behind and wander the countryside preaching the gospel. That’s what he told his deciples to do, why shouldn’t they have to do it too? I guess that wouldn’t keep much money in the churches then, would it. Oh well.
It’s really nice to see that so many states that get labeled as hot-beds of bigotry have shown that they are moving past some of their prejudices. Now if only the rest of them could have…
That’s totally not shocking.
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@ Jay – I’ve said it before on here in response to similar comments…there are many people who feel a loyalty to their heritage, or just plain like many aspects of their organization, that’s why they stay.
In fact it actually HELPS the LGBT cause to have allies in places like that (like Alabama, where I live). Because there are few out people here, it’s easier to touch someone and make them understand that we are real people.
That’s why spies are so effective: infiltrate and let them get to know that a gay man is no different from them…that’s how progress has been made in this denomination.
““It doesn’t seem that minds have changed as much as voting patterns have changed this time around,” he said. That is a patently ridiculous statement or don’t these people use their minds to make their decision to vote?
Some of us live in presbyteries of the PCUSA where the vote was 5 to 1 in favor of change, but still we find ourselves hobbled by being part of a national system that does not yet fully embrace us. But we remain confident that God is on our side, and time is on our side, so we keep working for the inevitable change. Is that so different from what we’ve done for 40 years in civil society? In my lifetime of experience the organization doesn’t hate us. It does fear us, but only a minority actually hate us.
“Paul Detterman, executive director of Presbyterians for Renewal, a conservative group, said he was pleased ‘the church has once again voted to uphold historical biblical standards of ordination’…”
Detterman’s comment is either ignorant or, more likely, dishonest. The clause calls for marriage between a man and a woman, but polygamy dominates the Old Testament, and a wide variety of family arrangements are found in the New Testament.
As Kristie said, Jesus told the disciples to leave their homes and families and follow him. Jesus regarded his followers as his family. When told, “Your mother and brothers are outside to see you,” he replied, “Who are my mother and my brothers?” Then he looked around at his followers and said, “Look! My mother and my sisters and my brothers!”
The clause also calls for “chastity in singleness,” in other words, no fornication. The word translated fornication in the New Testament is the Greek “porneia”, which actually meant prostitution or harlotry.
Furthermore, church liturgies included blessings of same-sex unions until the 17th century. The constitutional clause, adopted as recently as 1996, isn’t “historical and biblical” but a reflection of modern prejudice.
Most of the information in this post comes from William L. Countryman’s book “Dirt, Greed, and Sex: Sexual Ethics in the New Testament.” The 2007 edition addresses the modern idea that marriage should be between one man and one woman, and the book’s dismissal of the notion that the Bible considers homosexuality a sin is practically irrefutable.
Do not give up. Slowly, but surely, we are gaining more and more allies in the faith community. Educate them and change will come. Remember, our first job is to prove to religious moderates and progressives that the religious conservatives are wrong and there is nothing to fear by opening doors to LGBT equality.
When will people – gay, straight, whatever – learn that organized religion is pure evil?
Eric: The moment they actually start thinking.
Not sure if this is a good quote at this time but as someone once said:
“Religion is the opiate of the masses”
This in reality is no different than some religions refuse to have women as clergy. Religion is on its last legs why care one way or the other? As long as they aren’t out teaching hate we should care less. The religions that do, we should be able to keep them isolated and use them to show what hate really is to the straight people.
Religion is so old and decrepit that they think they can ignore change. Well they are wrong history has proved them wrong so many times it is almost funny. If you belong to one religion or another good for you, but do not expect things will be the same in 100 years. I will go out on a limb here and say Catholicism will disappear in 200 years (or less).
Let the people have their own beliefs and you keep yours. Let them stew in their own mess.