Comments on: Leader Calls For Curb On Gay Bishops

By: Father Raymond Clark

Father Raymond Clark — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 11:58:26 +0000

RJB: you misunderstand the polity of the Episcopal Church in the United States of America, to use its full title, and indeed of Anglicanism. Anglicanism’s structure is related to the autocephalous national Eastern Orthodox Churches’ form of government, NOT Rome’s. We settled THAT in 1531. The BIBLICAL requirement for the election of a bishop is this: the people of the diocese nominate and elect; the NEIGHBORING bishops give their consent (in this case, the U.S. Province); the Presiding Bishop or Archbishop consecrates him/her, assisted by other bishops. We have NEVER been consulted about the appointment of the Archbishop of Canterbury; NONE of the African bishops have ever looked to the U.S. Episcopal Church for advice and consent on THEIR elections; by the same token, until now, NO “foreign prelate” has EVER dared to tell a brother/sister bishop what to do, much less a Presiding Bishop / Archbishop or an entire PROVINCE. Anglicanism HAS no Pope, no College of Cardinals, no General Synods, and it was set up that way on purpose. Messy and inefficient? To be SURE! But it also prevents the kind of coalition and seizure of power that the bishops of the “global south” are attempting. And make no mistake: they are being PAID by conservative Americans like Ahmanson and Scaife and the other members of the Nine Families. Google “Larry Kramer Cooper Union Speech” for details about that.

Father Raymond
Superior, Retired
Community of the Resurrection
San Diego CA

By: SteveMD2

SteveMD2 — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 04:31:56 +0000

to rjb….

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I disagree. Social progress often has meant the shoving of issues into the face of those good people who are so stuck on the old ways, and fearful of the new, that they can’t change, especially if it shows how wrong they have been in the past. We’ve been here before in the USA, re women voting, inter-racial marriage, ending the hatred against Jews, ending slavery and segregation, etc., etc. Sometimes you just have to force, nicely, people out of their comfort zones.

And I’ve attended one gay wedding, in an Episcopal church in Washington DC, for two friends. It was a very nice ceremony, with parents, grandparents, friends, co-workers, etc present. The only shames were that they had to call it a committment ceremony, and that it is still not recognized here. Real Shames, for two perfectly decent good Americans.

By: SteveMD2

SteveMD2 — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 04:25:25 +0000

Adam and Eve – hmmm. The Adam in the old testament is the Hebrew for for ‘all the people’, not a name of someone.

So there are lots of interpretations possible here, but 4000 year old writings that call for murder should be dropped from the bible. They are the true Abomination before God.

By: SteveMD2

SteveMD2 — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 04:21:38 +0000

Hasn’t the church been here before – formed from the need to break away from the most backwards large institution in the western world, Rome, 500 years ago.

Hasn’t the church been here before, over the issue of women priests. And now the US Episcopal church is headed by a woman.

And it is time to consecrate more Gay bishops, and for the ones still terrorized into the closet and come out and say “Free at Last….”, as another, perhaps America’s greatest patriot, Dr. Martin Luther Kings, said decades ago.

And it is time, if Rowan William is such a pansy as he appears to be, to tell him to step aside, if he can’t do what is right.

And I might add that Jesus never said anything about gays. And what is said in the bible about them comes from patriarchialism – the old idea that men control, and women submit. If you want a good example of that, just go look at Saudi Arabia, where raped women often get whipped, while the man gets a slap on the hand. Do we in America want to propagate ideas related to that, I ask?

By: Glen

Glen — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 02:47:23 +0000

Thank you to everyone for your comments towards Mr/Ms Kay. I’m glad to see that some of you understand where I’m coming from.

And just remember Mr/Ms Kay, God also created ME in HIS image. Hey, guess you’re the one who’s queer after all.

And yes, dear, I’ll pray for you too.

By: rrspyke

rrspyke — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 02:02:28 +0000

PAUL KAY:

You seem to forget that your ‘God’ made the Hermaphrodite too. Ooops. There’s a little wrench in your sound-bite theory, huh? You know what that is, bible boy? Thats a person born with BOTH sets of genetalia. Now who is He/She supposed to marry? And if you just think they are freaks-of-nature, then welcome to the Darwin Club. Otherwise sit down and shut up. Not everybody in the world is a christian or even cares what christians think. I certainly don’t. And your religion will NOT decide what I can and cannot do.

By: John Robert

John Robert — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 01:24:34 +0000

Paul Kay, it’s not Adam and Steve, sweetie, it’s Adam and Steven!

P.S.: I’ll say a prayer for you to overcome your hatred, intolerance, prejudice, and stupidity. Judge not so that ye not be judged.

By: Ken

Ken — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:02:18 +0000

Paul Kay, please don’t patronise us by praying for us. Pray for yourself instead. Read the whole of Leviticus and see what abominations you indulge in. Adam and Eve? You still believe that codswallop in the light of scientific evidence of the evolution of man? Just crawl back under that 16th century rock you are living under and leave us alone.

By: Brian MacIntyre

Brian MacIntyre — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:27:43 +0000

Paul Kay, Please educate yourself before firing off the standard homophobic blather of the religious right – with that tell-tale cliche about “Adam and Steve”, always delivered as if we’ve never, ever heard that one before. We gay Christians have heard it all before, we’ve given answers to the same questions as yours again and again, but we never get so much as “let’s agree to differ”. Here’s a couple of handy links so you can start to educate yourself: http://www.whosoever.org/bible/

http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~lcrew/argu.html

By: dennis

dennis — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:42:05 +0000

By his statements, it’s obvious who Williams sides with. The conservative extremists came out of the conference with a 100% victory. The only question now is whether the liberals in the Episcopal Church will stop kidding themselves and have the courage, self-respect and integrity to leave the Anglican union.