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Loading ...Irish parliament to consider civil union bill
01.27.2009 12:24pm EST
(Dublin) Legislation to allow same-sex couples to form civil unions will be presented to Irish lawmakers in the spring session of Parliament, the government announced Tuesday.
The bill is modeled after Britain’s Civil Partnership law, which grants all of the rights of marriage except the name.In Dublin, Government Chief Whip Pat Carey said that the Irish legislation would allow gay and lesbian couples to have their unions registered in clerk’s offices.
Partners would have to be 18-years of age or over, not be related and not be in other committed relationships such as opposite-sex marriages.
Gay and lesbian couples intending to have civil partnerships will have to give 90-days notice of their wish to register.
The legislation covers areas such as pensions and property rights for partners and it provides for ending relationships which fail.
The government has dismissed calls from LGBT groups to bring in full marriage ,saying it prevented from doing so by the Irish constitution, which states the government must protect the institution of marriage.
Recent public opinion polls show that 84 percent are in favor of some recognition of same-sex couples, while 53 percent would allow gay couples to marry.
The bill is expected to pass Parliament with the help of the opposition Greens Party, but 20 members of the governing Fianna Fail Party have said they will vote against it.
One really can’t describe “those who pushed for gay marriage” as a monolithic group. There is such variance in opinion and support across different states that what happens on the coasts or in the Midwest or the South varies widely. We never “pushed” for gay marriage in Wisconsin; but even passage of civil unions in other states makes our local fearmongers rattle their sabers, and we still don’t even have public employee domestic partner benefits. Other states can’t fathom basic nondiscrimination laws (and Congress certainly couldn’t until recently), and polling data shows wildly varying opinions on anything with the word “gay” in it.
Any apparent “setback for a generation” may be more due to that next generation thinking “what’s the big deal?” about treating LGBT folk equally when they eventually reach the halls of power.
Chris,
Most of us think with emotions rather than our heads and thats why we keep loosing. We will not have marriage in all states any century soon. I think that after the wounds of prop 8 have healed people will realise that. I believe most states might have civil unions before the current administration leaves office.
Bud Evans,
I have checked out your article about my neighboring state (almost except for 12 miles of Delaware in between.
The civil unions route was a cowardly route of the least resistance. a less of a hot potato for NJ than outright marriage. The court gave the legislature 180 days to come up with something that supposedly would give NJ same sex couples some kind of equality with straight marrieds and they came up with civil unions. Since then NJ same-sex couples have gained very little from civil unions—no respect, no benefits and no recognition by employers and insurance companies (two of the biggest factors in the life of the average US couple.
Civil unions get a big “F” for failure and for fraud. The couples are left with a little better than zero. Sure legal recognition from the state government of NJ, nice to have, but.
These couples are left with 10th best and zero class. Everywhere these couples go to talk to employers, insurance couples, to sign up for a health care plan, talking to friends and family, etc to doctors, nurses, hospitals, anything of potential significant impact on their lives come major and minor decision-making time…. these NJ same-sex couple find themselves explaining over, and over and over again each and every time about the NJ civil unions they entered in.
Civil unions are not well understood in America, but most everyone IMMEDIATELY UNDERSTAND MARRIAGE. Marriage not civil unions is the currency that those entities and people with the ability to most deeply impact our lives use marriage and not civil unions as the common “currency” by which health plans, insurers, employers and the medical profession operates under.
Only recently have some doctor’s office (like that of my GP in DC which has a domestic partner registry law)have started to include “domestic partners” on the form you fill out when becoming a new patient.
Back to NJ though. Bud your article makes note of Governor Corzine. He has recently said that he would sign a new law for NJ marriage equality when it comes his way for his signature.
NJ will very likely become the 3rd US state to have marriage equality.
I certainly DO support full marriage equality. My point was that when you are dealing with a political process and a major cultural shift, a realistic and pragmatic works best. Gaining marriage rites in one or two states and then losing then in more than 20 because it was approached too aggressively (and idealistically) does nobody any good. I understand that in most caes, Civil Unions do not equal full marriage rites but they are a significant incremental step in that direction that would be far less likely to create a backlash that will be much harder to undue.
On February 16, 2007, I wrote an article for “Equality Marriage for Same Sex Couples” (Canada) about the New Jersey Supreme Court decision and the state legislature’s spineless Civil Union “compromise” which was later adopted.
The title of the article is: “There is a Snake in the Garden State of New Jersey”
Unfortunately, all of my fears then have since been proven correct regarding that degrading “marriage” apartheid alternative — as you can see in my article.
Check it out:
http://www.samesexmarriage.ca/advocacy/sna160207.htm
the Green Party aren’t in opposition,
they’re part of the government.
Also the civil partnership offered is not equivalent to marriage – it offers no recognition of parental roles for gay partners
Maith thu, a Eire! Bravo, Ireland!
What works in Eirinn (in Ireland) or in other countries has been found to be very unworkable in New Jersey, Vermont etc.
Places like Iceland, Ireland, UK, New Zealand, Czech Republic, etc. have made civil unions, civil partnerships the law of the entire land and such law is legally binding.
in USA so much is in unfortunately a piecemeal state by state affair with the civil unions, marriage equality and none of it is binding for the entire USA as it should be due to federal level DOMA and the laws that are supported by federal level DOMA at USA entry points, laws that state that states to do not have to recognize marriage equality or civil unions legal in other states and in foreign countries, (ignoring the full faith and credit clause of the US Constitution that says that laws legally binding in one state shall be respected in the rest of the states. The Federal DOMA leads to denial of veteran’s and social security benefits for surviving spouse of a same-sex couple when one spouse passes away.
New Jersey’s legislature has said time and again NJ civil unions are legally binding in that state. Employers of especially nationwide companies and nationwide insurance companies operating under federal US law, feel free to thumb their nose at New Jersey civil unions saying in short that they are not marriage and thus are ignorable and benefits therefore are not going to be given out. Variations on these themes are rife in NJ, VT and other states where the civil unions exist. Go to Garden State Equality’s(the NJ gay rights org)website and see if you are not clear on all this and listen to one same-sex couples after another each in their own video clips all found on one web page within Garden State Equality’s site. All these couples are addressing (one couple at a time) a hearing on New Jersey civil unions. This hearing existed because of proof coming from around NJ of same-sex couples’ civil unions failings. Married couple have no problem with health coverage and insurance for their spouses and dependents from their employers and insurance companies, whereas the employees in civil unions are getting turned down by employers and by insurance companies in get health care coverage etc on their plans for their partners. Too much of this is happening in NJ and in other civil union states. The married straights are getting what they need but the same-sex couples wed under civil union arrangements that they have to explain again and again to everyone they talk to are told again and again, oh, it’s nice that you’re in a civil union but YOU ARE NOT MARRIED. We operate under federal law and we don’t have to give you anything UNTIL YOU ARE MARRIED. One male couple who moved to NJ from MA pointed out THEIR MARRIAGE in Massachusetts (MA)to each other and that such is legally binding in MA. As soon as one man’s employer heard that, employer chose to ignore the ERISA? law that says that under federal law employer doesn’t have to recognize a same sex couple for benefits (thanks, spin-off of federal level Defense of Marriage Act) and man’s employer chose to do the right thing and cover the employee’s partner as well under its plan.
A woman living in NJ and in a NJ civil union said that she was turned down for her partner when she mentioned civil union, but things improved very rapidly for her and her partner when she then mentioned that she and her partner had been to MA and were married legally married there according MA state law (which now allows same-sex couples from outside of MA to marry there thanks to the administration of the current pro-gay marriage MA gov who sought to repeal the infamous 1913 law stating that if a couple’s marriage (talking interracial marriages back then)was illegal in their home state, they could not marry in MA)
So back the NJ civil unions commission set up to study the problems and failures of NJ civil unions. Said commission’s recommendation is that NJ civil unions be turned into NJ marriage for same-sex couples and Governor John Corzine had said that he would sign a gay marriage law for NJ when that reaches his desk.
So, NJ is likely to be the 3rd marriage state and in Rhode Island antigay marriage Gov Carcieri is ineligible under RI law to run in 2010 and could be replaced by the gay mayor of Providence, RI David Cicilline or by one of the other 3 or so candidate for RI gov, all of them progay marriage for that state.
Civll unions unlike in other countries where they are national and have the full weight of their countries’ laws and government behind them are not working in the civil union states of the US for several reasons, one of them being that this country honors marriage as a whole and another is that unlike in other countries, our federal government does not giving any recognition to civil unions, marriage equality or domestic partnerships at the federal level. Those arrangements are strictly a state by state affair and recognized only that particular state. Your civil union or you gay marriage are as non-existent in my state Maryland as federal law says that state don’t have to recognize gay marriages or civil unions legal in other states or in other countries. When and if MD gets civil unions (and our current gov is for civil unions only for now)then your civil unions will be likely recognized in Maryland and your marriage equality will be likely treated as if it were a civil union by my state) Only problem is Maryland civil unions will likely be like those in NJ a sadly failed experiment. That is why most of us gays in Maryland have been taking lessons from the problems in NJ and we only want marriage equality. Marriage is the “currency” that employers and insurance companies in the USA understand. NJ is glaring proof of that.
Chris Sullivan. You are absolutelly right. I don’t want to spend the rest of my life fighting for a name. If civil unions are modified to provide full benefits that benefit my family, then I don’t care for a name. Im not seeking for approval from anyone. We have to be realistic in our movement.
When did this become the Chris Sullivan board?
TJNV – It’s called living in the real and pragmatic world and not the delusional idealistic one where moves can easily backfore and become counter-productive (and sadly, they HAVE!)
Any progress is good. But to blame us for wanting full equlity is to put the blame in the wrong place. We would already have full gay marriage in many states ( and perhaps federally) if it were not for the hateful bigots !!!
I think many people would squirm at first, But then get used to it. Why should we have to baby the bigoted. If we demand marrige we might get civil unions. They will always give us less than we demand..
Tom in Long Beach, I hope for full marriage in a few states with civil unions on a federal level. (For Now).
Um, NO LOrion! – you seem to have selective attention – while it is true that MA and CT currently have marriage, I wouldn’t count on NY, Maine or NJ anytime soon and you naturally disregard the main point of my post… BECAUSE of the push for “all or nothing baby” we NOW HAVE A LOT OF NOTHING! – dozens of states now have CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS BANNING GAY MARRIAGE (which will be VERY, VERY hard to undo!) that they most certainly WOULD NOT HAVE HAD if the GLBT ocmmunity was smart enough to move things along at a more reasoned pace. We’re talking a MAJOR cultural adjustment that needed to be eased into. Instead, because of the hyper-aggresive approach that was taken, we have been set back for quite some time. Those are the facts, I iamgine you’ll interpret that as suits you – but they are undeniable.
No, Chris. Here we have Equal Marriage Rights in MA and CT, soon in NY, Maine, and very soon in NJ…where they PROVED that CU/DP’s are not equal.
All or nothing baby.
Unlike Britain’s Civil Partnership law of 2004…..Ireland’s version will not allow same sex civil unioned partners to adopt children. British gay couples or singles can if they so wish.
Civil Unions are a logical, intelligent and desirable incremental improvement in the civil rites of GLBT people. Those who have pushed for gay marriage here in the U.S. too hard and too fast, have set back gay unions (by any name) at least a generation. This is good news indeed.