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	<title>Comments on: Gay marriage momentum stalls in liberal NY, NJ</title>
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		<title>By: Ken Cage</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-momentum-stalls-in-liberal-ny-nj/comment-page-2/#comment-78114</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Cage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10949#comment-78114</guid>
		<description>WHat does that mean Vo Cong Cung?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WHat does that mean Vo Cong Cung?</p>
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		<title>By: Vo Dong Cung</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-momentum-stalls-in-liberal-ny-nj/comment-page-2/#comment-78112</link>
		<dc:creator>Vo Dong Cung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 06:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10949#comment-78112</guid>
		<description>I would like to ask people who oppose gay marriage, will they want their daughters in law are lesbians, or their sons in law are gay men?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to ask people who oppose gay marriage, will they want their daughters in law are lesbians, or their sons in law are gay men?</p>
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		<title>By: Morgan</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-momentum-stalls-in-liberal-ny-nj/comment-page-1/#comment-78102</link>
		<dc:creator>Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10949#comment-78102</guid>
		<description>The work toward equality is far from finished and that we still have a long way to go with even blue states like NJ and NY and with lot of other states.

DE and MD have been progressing forward under our current governors but DE and MD still have a way to go. DE has a young and openly gay-friendly governor at this time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The work toward equality is far from finished and that we still have a long way to go with even blue states like NJ and NY and with lot of other states.</p>
<p>DE and MD have been progressing forward under our current governors but DE and MD still have a way to go. DE has a young and openly gay-friendly governor at this time.</p>
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		<title>By: S Saxon</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-momentum-stalls-in-liberal-ny-nj/comment-page-1/#comment-78085</link>
		<dc:creator>S Saxon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 18:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10949#comment-78085</guid>
		<description>Equal Treatment is the Constitutional RIGHT of every American-- Gay or straight, black or white, man or woman--and this right should NEVER be determined by the popular vote. 

The Constitution is meant to protect the minority from the prejudicial will of the majority, not give the many (by means of the vote) a way to take away the rights of a disenfranchised few! 

Using the popular vote as a means to deny the equal rights of a minority is not Democracy!  It is voter approved bigotry. 

Even the LGBT community, by spending huge amounts of money fighting for our rights at the polls, unwittingly legitimizes the idea that our rights should be determined by the majority vote!  It is time to change the strategy!  

It is time to challenge our President, our Law Makers and Our Representatives to uphold the Constitution. 


On February 28, 2008, as a Presidential candidate, Senator Obama stated:   “Equality is a moral imperative...As your President, I will use the bully pulpit to urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality...I will never compromise on my commitment to equal rights for all LGBT Americans...” 

Now-- as our President, he tells us that we must be patient because, in his words, &quot;there are those who still need to be convinced&quot;. 

With all due respect, Mr. President, if the African American community&#039;s civil rights had been determined on a state by state basis by the popular vote, there are areas in our country to this day, where segregation would be the &quot;will of the people” because &quot;there are those who STILL need to be convinced.&quot;  

I am not equating the African American struggle, or the women’s rights struggle, or the struggle for Religious freedom, with the LGBT struggle.  Each group has historically faced it&#039;s own unique challenges and discrimination.  They are, however, comparable in one way.  None should be determined by the &quot;popular vote&quot; and none of them were-- EXCEPT the civil rights of LGBT Americans. This is unacceptable!

There is NO legal or socially moral reason to deny FULL EQUALITY to all. This denial is based on a particular religious  belief--and no one’s religious interpretations should be allowed to justify denying a group their Civil and Social Rights.  To do so is a blatant violation of the separation of church and state.  

Mr. President, I would challenge you to show the courage of young Will Phillips.  Give him back his Country’s Pledge.  Show him that “Liberty and Justice for ALL” is not a lie!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Equal Treatment is the Constitutional RIGHT of every American&#8211; Gay or straight, black or white, man or woman&#8211;and this right should NEVER be determined by the popular vote. </p>
<p>The Constitution is meant to protect the minority from the prejudicial will of the majority, not give the many (by means of the vote) a way to take away the rights of a disenfranchised few! </p>
<p>Using the popular vote as a means to deny the equal rights of a minority is not Democracy!  It is voter approved bigotry. </p>
<p>Even the LGBT community, by spending huge amounts of money fighting for our rights at the polls, unwittingly legitimizes the idea that our rights should be determined by the majority vote!  It is time to change the strategy!  </p>
<p>It is time to challenge our President, our Law Makers and Our Representatives to uphold the Constitution. </p>
<p>On February 28, 2008, as a Presidential candidate, Senator Obama stated:   “Equality is a moral imperative&#8230;As your President, I will use the bully pulpit to urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality&#8230;I will never compromise on my commitment to equal rights for all LGBT Americans&#8230;” </p>
<p>Now&#8211; as our President, he tells us that we must be patient because, in his words, &#8220;there are those who still need to be convinced&#8221;. </p>
<p>With all due respect, Mr. President, if the African American community&#8217;s civil rights had been determined on a state by state basis by the popular vote, there are areas in our country to this day, where segregation would be the &#8220;will of the people” because &#8220;there are those who STILL need to be convinced.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I am not equating the African American struggle, or the women’s rights struggle, or the struggle for Religious freedom, with the LGBT struggle.  Each group has historically faced it&#8217;s own unique challenges and discrimination.  They are, however, comparable in one way.  None should be determined by the &#8220;popular vote&#8221; and none of them were&#8211; EXCEPT the civil rights of LGBT Americans. This is unacceptable!</p>
<p>There is NO legal or socially moral reason to deny FULL EQUALITY to all. This denial is based on a particular religious  belief&#8211;and no one’s religious interpretations should be allowed to justify denying a group their Civil and Social Rights.  To do so is a blatant violation of the separation of church and state.  </p>
<p>Mr. President, I would challenge you to show the courage of young Will Phillips.  Give him back his Country’s Pledge.  Show him that “Liberty and Justice for ALL” is not a lie!</p>
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		<title>By: Southernhemisphere</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-momentum-stalls-in-liberal-ny-nj/comment-page-1/#comment-78082</link>
		<dc:creator>Southernhemisphere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10949#comment-78082</guid>
		<description>At one time you hated upon those who entered interracial marriages; to the point of murdering them. And even now many psychologist use a doctrine of&quot;similarity&quot; to stop such marriages from happening. Yet the homogenous hetero. marriages are plagued with divorce even our own moral majority Govenor in the state of South Carolina. Who are you people to tell consenting adults where they may and with what other&quot;Adults&quot; thet may lay their heads?!!!!! Whatever</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At one time you hated upon those who entered interracial marriages; to the point of murdering them. And even now many psychologist use a doctrine of&#8221;similarity&#8221; to stop such marriages from happening. Yet the homogenous hetero. marriages are plagued with divorce even our own moral majority Govenor in the state of South Carolina. Who are you people to tell consenting adults where they may and with what other&#8221;Adults&#8221; thet may lay their heads?!!!!! Whatever</p>
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		<title>By: SteveMD2</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-momentum-stalls-in-liberal-ny-nj/comment-page-1/#comment-78064</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveMD2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 06:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10949#comment-78064</guid>
		<description>Note that the Episcopal, ELCA. MCC, UCC, UU, Quakers, Jewish Reform/Conservative, etc all support gay people, including pastors in relationships.  The PresbyterianUSA group got close this year, and next time will most likely support the relationship deal, they do have openly gay pastors.

There are movements in the United Methodists,  American (not southern) Baptists, Disciples of Christ, etc.  Sure the Catholic church has DignityUSA, but those folks should get smart and have a national day of condemnation when they all leave the church at once.

soon it&#039;s going to be only the Southern Baptists of Slavery days, the catholic monster of Hitler, etc, and lots of the southern Baptists like independent christian churches who will be left.

And as the generations change, hopefully these remaining bigot groups will preach to the dust in the pews, the dust of their departed, and the dust of the wrecking ball knocking over their houses of hate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note that the Episcopal, ELCA. MCC, UCC, UU, Quakers, Jewish Reform/Conservative, etc all support gay people, including pastors in relationships.  The PresbyterianUSA group got close this year, and next time will most likely support the relationship deal, they do have openly gay pastors.</p>
<p>There are movements in the United Methodists,  American (not southern) Baptists, Disciples of Christ, etc.  Sure the Catholic church has DignityUSA, but those folks should get smart and have a national day of condemnation when they all leave the church at once.</p>
<p>soon it&#8217;s going to be only the Southern Baptists of Slavery days, the catholic monster of Hitler, etc, and lots of the southern Baptists like independent christian churches who will be left.</p>
<p>And as the generations change, hopefully these remaining bigot groups will preach to the dust in the pews, the dust of their departed, and the dust of the wrecking ball knocking over their houses of hate.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveMD2</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-momentum-stalls-in-liberal-ny-nj/comment-page-1/#comment-78063</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveMD2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 06:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10949#comment-78063</guid>
		<description>&quot;Politicians could lose their seats for supporting same sex marriage&quot;

Not what happened in MA,  Note one lost their seat.  But several of the bigots did lose their seat.

when the gay community really gets off its ass, and 10 million gay people show up at rallies, the state house etc, the politicians will really take notice.  Because the bigots really are  minority, except in the hate fiolled south, still fighting for segregation, only now it is of gays, not blacks.

We never finished the civil war - that is the problem down there.

And someday, religion will be simple - &quot;we are only here for a short time.  Besides our families, we must help those denigrated amd their humanity denied, usually in the name of God.&quot;

And in the end, if there is a God, we will be honored.  If there isn&#039;t a God and hereafter, we&#039;ll know on our deathbed that we did the right thing, and that will be reward enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Politicians could lose their seats for supporting same sex marriage&#8221;</p>
<p>Not what happened in MA,  Note one lost their seat.  But several of the bigots did lose their seat.</p>
<p>when the gay community really gets off its ass, and 10 million gay people show up at rallies, the state house etc, the politicians will really take notice.  Because the bigots really are  minority, except in the hate fiolled south, still fighting for segregation, only now it is of gays, not blacks.</p>
<p>We never finished the civil war &#8211; that is the problem down there.</p>
<p>And someday, religion will be simple &#8211; &#8220;we are only here for a short time.  Besides our families, we must help those denigrated amd their humanity denied, usually in the name of God.&#8221;</p>
<p>And in the end, if there is a God, we will be honored.  If there isn&#8217;t a God and hereafter, we&#8217;ll know on our deathbed that we did the right thing, and that will be reward enough.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveMD2</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-momentum-stalls-in-liberal-ny-nj/comment-page-1/#comment-78060</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveMD2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 06:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10949#comment-78060</guid>
		<description>Look at gay marriage and civil unions from the following perspective.  In western europe, almost every nation recognizes gay relationships in one form or another.  Exceptions are Ireland - CU&#039;s expected soon, Portugal - the president is going to drive the issue, Italy and Greece - home to churches of hatred.

Then in Eastern Europe, there is Chech Republic, Hungary, and Austria who recognize gay unions.  Add Israel, Repub of South Africa, Nepal, a special case in Japan, NZ, and parts of Australia.

And in very Catholic South America, Uraguay, columbia, and parts of mexico, Argentina and Brazil.
Also of course, Canada.

The battle is in the USA, because when the churches lose in the USA, and people come to realize that gay people are good people, just like anyone else, the churches of hate will be exposed, and ultimately become like the Sabre toothed tigers - vicious beasts now extinct.

And the world will breath a sigh of relief, and God will be so busy expanding hell for those who denigrate and deny part of His creation for their own selfish ends.

It&#039;s probably going to take longer, and we need to have a longer term expectation, but the prize will be well worth it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look at gay marriage and civil unions from the following perspective.  In western europe, almost every nation recognizes gay relationships in one form or another.  Exceptions are Ireland &#8211; CU&#8217;s expected soon, Portugal &#8211; the president is going to drive the issue, Italy and Greece &#8211; home to churches of hatred.</p>
<p>Then in Eastern Europe, there is Chech Republic, Hungary, and Austria who recognize gay unions.  Add Israel, Repub of South Africa, Nepal, a special case in Japan, NZ, and parts of Australia.</p>
<p>And in very Catholic South America, Uraguay, columbia, and parts of mexico, Argentina and Brazil.<br />
Also of course, Canada.</p>
<p>The battle is in the USA, because when the churches lose in the USA, and people come to realize that gay people are good people, just like anyone else, the churches of hate will be exposed, and ultimately become like the Sabre toothed tigers &#8211; vicious beasts now extinct.</p>
<p>And the world will breath a sigh of relief, and God will be so busy expanding hell for those who denigrate and deny part of His creation for their own selfish ends.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s probably going to take longer, and we need to have a longer term expectation, but the prize will be well worth it.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveMD2</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-momentum-stalls-in-liberal-ny-nj/comment-page-1/#comment-78059</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveMD2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 06:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10949#comment-78059</guid>
		<description>The gallagher woman - to me she is a female satan in the flesh.  Probably a self hating lesbian created by the church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The gallagher woman &#8211; to me she is a female satan in the flesh.  Probably a self hating lesbian created by the church.</p>
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		<title>By: benrlw</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-momentum-stalls-in-liberal-ny-nj/comment-page-1/#comment-78055</link>
		<dc:creator>benrlw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 05:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10949#comment-78055</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m wondering what people really expected.  There just aren&#039;t many states left to grab for in 2009... NJ and NY are still reachable, but it&#039;s going to take an effort to make it come to a vote.  Besides RI and perhaps Hawai&#039;i, I don&#039;t see any other states as possible before 2012.  We&#039;ve pretty much won the court cases we can win at the state level.

I see two strategies coming from this:  a)  focuse on winning popular votes in liberal states in 2012, or b) focusing on a federal lawsuit to make same-sex marriage legal across the country. 

Or both.  But we HAVE to focus on 2012 if it comes to ballot initiatives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m wondering what people really expected.  There just aren&#8217;t many states left to grab for in 2009&#8230; NJ and NY are still reachable, but it&#8217;s going to take an effort to make it come to a vote.  Besides RI and perhaps Hawai&#8217;i, I don&#8217;t see any other states as possible before 2012.  We&#8217;ve pretty much won the court cases we can win at the state level.</p>
<p>I see two strategies coming from this:  a)  focuse on winning popular votes in liberal states in 2012, or b) focusing on a federal lawsuit to make same-sex marriage legal across the country. </p>
<p>Or both.  But we HAVE to focus on 2012 if it comes to ballot initiatives.</p>
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