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	<title>Comments on: Gay marriage fight, `kiss-ins&#8217; smack Mormon image</title>
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	<description>The daily news source for the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community</description>
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		<title>By: Caleb</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-fight-kiss-ins-smack-mormon-image/comment-page-2/#comment-71582</link>
		<dc:creator>Caleb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9152#comment-71582</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t Tyler Barrick one of the guys who&#039;s marriage announcement was denied by the newspaper</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t Tyler Barrick one of the guys who&#8217;s marriage announcement was denied by the newspaper</p>
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		<title>By: Kelson</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-fight-kiss-ins-smack-mormon-image/comment-page-1/#comment-71437</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9152#comment-71437</guid>
		<description>The Mormon church, it would appear, has a lot in common with the Islamic Taliban.  Different covering, but same interior.  Both has as their justification books of fantasy with mythical characters - not very good ones at that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Mormon church, it would appear, has a lot in common with the Islamic Taliban.  Different covering, but same interior.  Both has as their justification books of fantasy with mythical characters &#8211; not very good ones at that.</p>
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		<title>By: RobertinWestbury</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-fight-kiss-ins-smack-mormon-image/comment-page-1/#comment-71416</link>
		<dc:creator>RobertinWestbury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9152#comment-71416</guid>
		<description>Jessieka made the following claims about Mormonism that I feel the need to comment on: 


1.	“They are beyond racist.”  I don’t know what beyond racist is called, but many of them are racist.  The church believes that we all existed in heaven before we were born.  There was a war in heaven between the two sons of God, Satan and Jesus Christ.  Both had submitted plans of salvation to God the Father.  God chose Christ’s plan, and Satan and his followers rebelled.  And there was a war in heaven, and Satan and his followers were cast to the earth to be tormenting demons (and thus provide temptations to do wrong, which we must fight against).   There were some in heaven that were in the middle and didn’t side with Christ or Satan.  Those fence sitters were to be known by having dark skins.  This is how God marked those spirits who were not valiant in the war in heaven.  They were called the ‘progeny of Cain’ because God introduced blackness into the world when he caused Cain to have a black skin as punishment for slaying Abel.   Early Mormon prophets taught that blacks would never be allowed to have their priesthood until after the 1000 year Millennial reign of Christ, which would begin at the 2nd coming.  But due to political pressure in the 1970’s, and the church anticipating major growth in Africa and Latin and South America, God allowed them to extend full membership rights to all races in 1978.   However, the quote that the only way a negro man can enter heaven is as a slave – that may have been said by someone in the early days of the church (19th century), but it has never been a teaching or belief of the church.  I was in it for 30 years and know it quite intimately, and that is not a belief of the church.  


2.	The church does teach that women need to be submissive to their husbands.  It teaches that a woman cannot attain the highest level of heaven without her husband.  Indeed, at the resurrection, Christ will call forth the spirits of all the men who have lived from the grave.  And the men will then call forth the spirits of their wives.  Thus if a man doesn’t choose to call forth is wife, she is S.O.L.   I don’t think the early leaders who thought up this teaching believed that any man just resurrected would withhold this ‘blessing’ to his wife, but…..   LOL…  


3.	The LDS church would never encourage the men in the family of a Lesbian to rape her.  Although I know of instances of local leaders, such as bishops, counseling families to cut off all relations with a gay or lesbian son or daughter – in the hopes that it would cause them such sadness that they would want to repent and change.. 


4.	They believe in baptism by immersion, so it would be very difficult to baptize someone without their knowledge or consent.  They do perform baptisms for the dead, but since the parties involved are dead,  it would be impossible to gain their consent.  I was actually involved in this once.  Mormons don’t think anyone can get into heaven without being baptized first, and so if you have ancestors that were never baptized, you can be baptized in their place – by proxy, and it will allow them to proceed into heaven.  These ceremonies are done in the temple in a big pool of water resting on the backs of 12 sculpted oxen, representing the 12 tribes of Israel.  I was baptized for 33 dead guys one day….  I didn’t actually see any of their spirits attending the ceremony as some who have participated have claimed.  Yes, some claim they have actually seen the dead person’s spirit looking on as they have freed them from any restraint in going to heaven..  Anyway… 


5.	There is no Mormon who would want to spend Eternity with Hitler..  and there is no evidence that Hitler would want to spend eternity with them either. 


6.	They do feel totally justified in meddling in everyone’s lives, but then so do all organized religions, especially of a conservative nature. 


7.	They worship money almost as much as they do their ‘profits’ (I think you meant prophets??? Either way it works)..  I would agree with that too.  They bring in millions daily in tithes, and they invest those millions in Real Estate, businesses, corporations, media, etc.  They control most, if not all, media outlets in Utah.  They own large percentages of CocaCola and other food product companies.  They own 100% of Beneficial Life Insurance.  They own Zion’s National Bank….  Stores…  They are largely a corporation.  And that has provided them far too much power.   They control the political landscape in several states, and in Utah even hold political meetings in LDS church houses.   They claim they do not get involved in politics, but every Mormon who holds a temple recommend has taken an oath to be obedient to the Mormon prophet.  Therefore, if a Mormon prophet deems an issue to be a moral issue, and speaks out on it, the state legislators will adopt that view simply because they have taken oaths to obey him.  Thus there is little separation of church and state.   The prophet spoke out in favor of Prop 8 and look what happened…  They have a doctrine of Infallibility (called the Manifesto), and Mormons do not believe their prophet can lead them astray.  Thus, when he speaks, ‘the thinking has been done,’ and their duty then is to obey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jessieka made the following claims about Mormonism that I feel the need to comment on: </p>
<p>1.	“They are beyond racist.”  I don’t know what beyond racist is called, but many of them are racist.  The church believes that we all existed in heaven before we were born.  There was a war in heaven between the two sons of God, Satan and Jesus Christ.  Both had submitted plans of salvation to God the Father.  God chose Christ’s plan, and Satan and his followers rebelled.  And there was a war in heaven, and Satan and his followers were cast to the earth to be tormenting demons (and thus provide temptations to do wrong, which we must fight against).   There were some in heaven that were in the middle and didn’t side with Christ or Satan.  Those fence sitters were to be known by having dark skins.  This is how God marked those spirits who were not valiant in the war in heaven.  They were called the ‘progeny of Cain’ because God introduced blackness into the world when he caused Cain to have a black skin as punishment for slaying Abel.   Early Mormon prophets taught that blacks would never be allowed to have their priesthood until after the 1000 year Millennial reign of Christ, which would begin at the 2nd coming.  But due to political pressure in the 1970’s, and the church anticipating major growth in Africa and Latin and South America, God allowed them to extend full membership rights to all races in 1978.   However, the quote that the only way a negro man can enter heaven is as a slave – that may have been said by someone in the early days of the church (19th century), but it has never been a teaching or belief of the church.  I was in it for 30 years and know it quite intimately, and that is not a belief of the church.  </p>
<p>2.	The church does teach that women need to be submissive to their husbands.  It teaches that a woman cannot attain the highest level of heaven without her husband.  Indeed, at the resurrection, Christ will call forth the spirits of all the men who have lived from the grave.  And the men will then call forth the spirits of their wives.  Thus if a man doesn’t choose to call forth is wife, she is S.O.L.   I don’t think the early leaders who thought up this teaching believed that any man just resurrected would withhold this ‘blessing’ to his wife, but…..   LOL…  </p>
<p>3.	The LDS church would never encourage the men in the family of a Lesbian to rape her.  Although I know of instances of local leaders, such as bishops, counseling families to cut off all relations with a gay or lesbian son or daughter – in the hopes that it would cause them such sadness that they would want to repent and change.. </p>
<p>4.	They believe in baptism by immersion, so it would be very difficult to baptize someone without their knowledge or consent.  They do perform baptisms for the dead, but since the parties involved are dead,  it would be impossible to gain their consent.  I was actually involved in this once.  Mormons don’t think anyone can get into heaven without being baptized first, and so if you have ancestors that were never baptized, you can be baptized in their place – by proxy, and it will allow them to proceed into heaven.  These ceremonies are done in the temple in a big pool of water resting on the backs of 12 sculpted oxen, representing the 12 tribes of Israel.  I was baptized for 33 dead guys one day….  I didn’t actually see any of their spirits attending the ceremony as some who have participated have claimed.  Yes, some claim they have actually seen the dead person’s spirit looking on as they have freed them from any restraint in going to heaven..  Anyway… </p>
<p>5.	There is no Mormon who would want to spend Eternity with Hitler..  and there is no evidence that Hitler would want to spend eternity with them either. </p>
<p>6.	They do feel totally justified in meddling in everyone’s lives, but then so do all organized religions, especially of a conservative nature. </p>
<p>7.	They worship money almost as much as they do their ‘profits’ (I think you meant prophets??? Either way it works)..  I would agree with that too.  They bring in millions daily in tithes, and they invest those millions in Real Estate, businesses, corporations, media, etc.  They control most, if not all, media outlets in Utah.  They own large percentages of CocaCola and other food product companies.  They own 100% of Beneficial Life Insurance.  They own Zion’s National Bank….  Stores…  They are largely a corporation.  And that has provided them far too much power.   They control the political landscape in several states, and in Utah even hold political meetings in LDS church houses.   They claim they do not get involved in politics, but every Mormon who holds a temple recommend has taken an oath to be obedient to the Mormon prophet.  Therefore, if a Mormon prophet deems an issue to be a moral issue, and speaks out on it, the state legislators will adopt that view simply because they have taken oaths to obey him.  Thus there is little separation of church and state.   The prophet spoke out in favor of Prop 8 and look what happened…  They have a doctrine of Infallibility (called the Manifesto), and Mormons do not believe their prophet can lead them astray.  Thus, when he speaks, ‘the thinking has been done,’ and their duty then is to obey.</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne M.</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-fight-kiss-ins-smack-mormon-image/comment-page-1/#comment-71413</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 02:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9152#comment-71413</guid>
		<description>Mormon church spokespersons claim they are only defending traditional marriage.  Well, I have news for them.  Supporters of marriage equality also defend traditional marriage.  We want traditional marriages to be successful and last for life-- in other words, fewer divorces and couples prepared for the commitment of marriage.  However, neither they nor others in the religious right will protect and defend traditional marriage by denying the rights of same-sex couples to marry or by pushing homosexual persons into traditional marriages for which they are not suited.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mormon church spokespersons claim they are only defending traditional marriage.  Well, I have news for them.  Supporters of marriage equality also defend traditional marriage.  We want traditional marriages to be successful and last for life&#8211; in other words, fewer divorces and couples prepared for the commitment of marriage.  However, neither they nor others in the religious right will protect and defend traditional marriage by denying the rights of same-sex couples to marry or by pushing homosexual persons into traditional marriages for which they are not suited.</p>
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		<title>By: D R</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-fight-kiss-ins-smack-mormon-image/comment-page-1/#comment-71409</link>
		<dc:creator>D R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9152#comment-71409</guid>
		<description>Brigham Young, the &quot;prophet&quot; also said the penalty for interracial marriage is death.  It&#039;s in the journal of discourses... easy to find.  Just look up anything about slavery in the journal of discourses, and you will be very surprised at all you will find that Marie Osmond would never share when she&#039;s on Larry King!  It is a far cry from the image they portray today and what the members would conveniently say was &quot;a man speaking for himself&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brigham Young, the &#8220;prophet&#8221; also said the penalty for interracial marriage is death.  It&#8217;s in the journal of discourses&#8230; easy to find.  Just look up anything about slavery in the journal of discourses, and you will be very surprised at all you will find that Marie Osmond would never share when she&#8217;s on Larry King!  It is a far cry from the image they portray today and what the members would conveniently say was &#8220;a man speaking for himself&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: jessieka</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-fight-kiss-ins-smack-mormon-image/comment-page-1/#comment-71408</link>
		<dc:creator>jessieka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9152#comment-71408</guid>
		<description>Response to others comments.
Yes they are beyond raciest makes the klan look sweet by comparasin.Example &quot;the only way a negro man can enter the pearly gates of heaven is as a slave&quot; there is no mention of black woman BECAUSE ALL woman MUST obiendantly submit to all men!
The lds also encourages a lesbains family &quot;men&quot; to &quot;FORCE TO SUBMIT SEXURALY&quot; There is no rape because NO woman or girl has a right to say no!
these are people who want to spend eternity with hitler! They &quot;babtise&quot; people without there knoledge &amp; consent.
With that kind of thinking they feel totly justerfied in meddling with everyones earthly lives as the do are afterlives! The only thing we can do since the feds are to wussy to act is hit it were it realy counts to these inbread rejects the pocket book. They worship money almost as much as the do there&quot;profits&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Response to others comments.<br />
Yes they are beyond raciest makes the klan look sweet by comparasin.Example &#8220;the only way a negro man can enter the pearly gates of heaven is as a slave&#8221; there is no mention of black woman BECAUSE ALL woman MUST obiendantly submit to all men!<br />
The lds also encourages a lesbains family &#8220;men&#8221; to &#8220;FORCE TO SUBMIT SEXURALY&#8221; There is no rape because NO woman or girl has a right to say no!<br />
these are people who want to spend eternity with hitler! They &#8220;babtise&#8221; people without there knoledge &amp; consent.<br />
With that kind of thinking they feel totly justerfied in meddling with everyones earthly lives as the do are afterlives! The only thing we can do since the feds are to wussy to act is hit it were it realy counts to these inbread rejects the pocket book. They worship money almost as much as the do there&#8221;profits&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: jessieka</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-fight-kiss-ins-smack-mormon-image/comment-page-1/#comment-71406</link>
		<dc:creator>jessieka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9152#comment-71406</guid>
		<description>We can hold a milloin protests &amp; never be heard by a single &quot;morman&quot; they dictate what is suitable to read or watch mostly just there brainwash channel &amp; other programs they control. 
They have snaked there way into american lives &amp; most are clueless!
Boy &amp; girl scouts are MORMAN you buy a girl scout cookie your fianacing there propaganda ads.Drunk a pepsi lately?
They own that to! The lds is no church they are a crimenal organazation &amp; all there resourcers should be removed under recko!!! The continued publication of &quot;daisy&quot; books are proof but the feds dont have the balls to act.I urge all THINKING people to stop fianacing there bs say no to pepsi &amp; girl scout cookies.
Dairy queen has &quot;exclusive&quot; contract for the cookies so probably also lds owned.
They got 1 rule for business only deal with others from the church. Hitting them in pocket book effects them much more than a kissathon! Does anybody else no a company we can all boycot in salidarty ???please add!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We can hold a milloin protests &amp; never be heard by a single &#8220;morman&#8221; they dictate what is suitable to read or watch mostly just there brainwash channel &amp; other programs they control.<br />
They have snaked there way into american lives &amp; most are clueless!<br />
Boy &amp; girl scouts are MORMAN you buy a girl scout cookie your fianacing there propaganda ads.Drunk a pepsi lately?<br />
They own that to! The lds is no church they are a crimenal organazation &amp; all there resourcers should be removed under recko!!! The continued publication of &#8220;daisy&#8221; books are proof but the feds dont have the balls to act.I urge all THINKING people to stop fianacing there bs say no to pepsi &amp; girl scout cookies.<br />
Dairy queen has &#8220;exclusive&#8221; contract for the cookies so probably also lds owned.<br />
They got 1 rule for business only deal with others from the church. Hitting them in pocket book effects them much more than a kissathon! Does anybody else no a company we can all boycot in salidarty ???please add!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Skiff</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-fight-kiss-ins-smack-mormon-image/comment-page-1/#comment-71399</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Skiff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9152#comment-71399</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a podcast I shot and posted of Santa Monica, CA&#039;s Kiss-In at the Third Street Promenade.

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?ns=1&amp;video_id=6q1_DY7w910&amp;next=%2Fmy_videos%3Fpi%3D0%26ps%3D20%26sf%3Dadded%26sa%3D0%26sq%3D%26dm%3D2

Hal Sparks of &quot;Queer As Folk&quot; talks about tough road for same-sex screen kisses in movies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a podcast I shot and posted of Santa Monica, CA&#8217;s Kiss-In at the Third Street Promenade.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?ns=1&#038;video_id=6q1_DY7w910&#038;next=%2Fmy_videos%3Fpi%3D0%26ps%3D20%26sf%3Dadded%26sa%3D0%26sq%3D%26dm%3D2" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?ns=1&#038;video_id=6q1_DY7w910&#038;next=%2Fmy_videos%3Fpi%3D0%26ps%3D20%26sf%3Dadded%26sa%3D0%26sq%3D%26dm%3D2</a></p>
<p>Hal Sparks of &#8220;Queer As Folk&#8221; talks about tough road for same-sex screen kisses in movies.</p>
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		<title>By: Dermot</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-fight-kiss-ins-smack-mormon-image/comment-page-1/#comment-71394</link>
		<dc:creator>Dermot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9152#comment-71394</guid>
		<description>Chris Sullivan:
That&#039;s...not really anything but caustic.  I wouldn&#039;t ask my worst enemy to do something like that.

Generally:

Anyway, I&#039;m rather surprised this article quoted so many gay Mormons and their Mormon allies.  There&#039;s a determined resistance movement within the church trying to reverse trends like these.  If a majority of people in Utah are Mormon, then it also figures that a majority of gay people in Utah are also culturally Mormon, and while some cease to be Mormons, others (in spiritual if not affiliatory terms) could no less stop being their own ethnicity.

It seems far too easy to wash one&#039;s hands of Utah and conservative regional cultures when the gay rights struggles there are actually some of those that matter the most.  Gay rights supporters in Utah are still fighting urgently for progressive advances, in a state where gay people (under state law) have no real rights at all.  Figures like Rocky Anderson and Jon Huntsman Jr. were considered great friends of the gay population, amidst others in the general population who wanted their blood for even saying so.

Please support and don&#039;t forget gay rights in Utah.  Here are some Mormon population-based gay rights campaigns in opposition to the church administration&#039;s hurtful policies:
http://www.affirmation.org/
http://mormonsformarriage.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris Sullivan:<br />
That&#8217;s&#8230;not really anything but caustic.  I wouldn&#8217;t ask my worst enemy to do something like that.</p>
<p>Generally:</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m rather surprised this article quoted so many gay Mormons and their Mormon allies.  There&#8217;s a determined resistance movement within the church trying to reverse trends like these.  If a majority of people in Utah are Mormon, then it also figures that a majority of gay people in Utah are also culturally Mormon, and while some cease to be Mormons, others (in spiritual if not affiliatory terms) could no less stop being their own ethnicity.</p>
<p>It seems far too easy to wash one&#8217;s hands of Utah and conservative regional cultures when the gay rights struggles there are actually some of those that matter the most.  Gay rights supporters in Utah are still fighting urgently for progressive advances, in a state where gay people (under state law) have no real rights at all.  Figures like Rocky Anderson and Jon Huntsman Jr. were considered great friends of the gay population, amidst others in the general population who wanted their blood for even saying so.</p>
<p>Please support and don&#8217;t forget gay rights in Utah.  Here are some Mormon population-based gay rights campaigns in opposition to the church administration&#8217;s hurtful policies:<br />
<a href="http://www.affirmation.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.affirmation.org/</a><br />
<a href="http://mormonsformarriage.com/" rel="nofollow">http://mormonsformarriage.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tara</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-marriage-fight-kiss-ins-smack-mormon-image/comment-page-1/#comment-71389</link>
		<dc:creator>Tara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9152#comment-71389</guid>
		<description>As a Pagan, I find it offensive that they have the only right to determine what is moral or not.  But what do you expect of a religion that use to proscute wicca&#039;s and other pagan people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Pagan, I find it offensive that they have the only right to determine what is moral or not.  But what do you expect of a religion that use to proscute wicca&#8217;s and other pagan people.</p>
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