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	<title>Comments on: Gay activists rally outside Mormon temple in NYC</title>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-activists-rally-outside-mormon-temple-in-nyc/comment-page-7/#comment-30360</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4198#comment-30360</guid>
		<description>Ain&#039;t it funny how people who have practiced hate and intolerance for years are now accusing those who fight back of the same thing.  I don&#039;t advocate violence or vandalism but protesting in the streets against those who seek to hold you down is an American tradition.  To anyone who takes issue with Gay men and woman taking to the streets, protesting your churches, your businesses, you brought it on yourselves so deal with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ain&#8217;t it funny how people who have practiced hate and intolerance for years are now accusing those who fight back of the same thing.  I don&#8217;t advocate violence or vandalism but protesting in the streets against those who seek to hold you down is an American tradition.  To anyone who takes issue with Gay men and woman taking to the streets, protesting your churches, your businesses, you brought it on yourselves so deal with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Rodney Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-activists-rally-outside-mormon-temple-in-nyc/comment-page-7/#comment-30356</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodney Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4198#comment-30356</guid>
		<description>&quot;By their fruits, ye shall know them&quot; 

When those cute young Mormon missionaries come to our doors, bringing their Books of Mormon to give potential new converts they often quote this scripture from the Gospel of Mathew, 7:16 to be exact. Mormons or members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to be exact, love to show off their good works. Their prophet and founder Joseph Smith broke with the protestant tradition of &quot;By faith alone&quot;. He and Mormons believe that not only must you believe in Jesus Christ, the Book of Mormon and the ordinances (aka sacraments) of the church but also must do good among men. And this doing good among men, is what our Mormon friends, neighbors and acquaintances take seriously. Those Mormon missionaries with their white shirts and black pants bicycling around sharing the Gospel according to Joseph Smith, are the most public face of their church. They try to do good, they offer to volunteer, help elderly people go to and from the pharmacy, help people moving in and out, they hold doors open and they do all of this with a genuine smile on their face and a desire to do good. As they preach their newer, more complete and restored Gospel of Jesus Christ according to Joseph Smith, they have a tough time selling to people that Native Americans are lost tribes of Jews who fled just before the Babylonian Captivity and that Jesus Christ after his Crucifixion appeared resurrected to these same Native American Jews as Quezacoatl. So more often than not, Mormons fall back on this scripture in the Book of Mathew as a means of validating themselves to potential converts who are likely skeptical of Joseph Smith&#039;s revelation.

The Mormon Church, very much like the Roman Catholic Church, recognizes that gay and lesbian people do not choose to be gay. Their current and former President (or Pope) has acknowledged scientific evidence that homosexuality is not and has never been a choice. But despite this the church still views homosexuality, same-sex marriage, and sex between same-sex couples as wrong. Far be it for me to tell Mormons what to believe, but here&#039;s why this matters to the rest of us. While Mormons seek the full protection of the First Amendment&#039;s protection of Freedom of Religion, due to their own history of persecution, they themselves don&#039;t feel obliged to respect the freedoms of others, particularly the Freedom to Marry, which gay and lesbian Californians had prior to Proposition 8. The Mormon church didn&#039;t simply preach their version of marriage in their own churches, chapels and temples, they used their church&#039;s vast resources and deliberately meddled in the political affairs of California, breaking not only federal law, but violating the sanctity and dignity of marriages between same-sex couples. By doing this, the Mormon church spread a campaign of deliberate lies, telling the voters of California that Prop 8 was not about being anti-gay, but pro-family. Marriage equality never threatened traditional heterosexual marriage it only extended the current legal definition to include same-sex couples, in accordance with the equal protection clause of both the federal and Californian Constitutions. The Mormon church lied, bore false witness, used its funds in complete contradiction of federal law and even it&#039;s own church doctrine. For gay and lesbian people, particularly married couples or couples on the verge of marriage, the Mormon fruit that is being born is not one of love and kindness but of hatred, intolerance and malevolent intervention in the private contractual affairs of people.

Mormons are wondering why there is so much venom, so much anger, so much hatred being shown to them. They need only look in the mirror, for those Mormons who didn&#039;t support Prop 8 and haven&#039;t ever harbored homophobia, they need to look at their church leadership. The Mormon church is getting the Lion&#039;s Share of the attention, because they donated the Lion&#039;s share of the Yes on Prop 8 money. &quot;What thou sowest thou shalt also reap&quot;, Mormons have no one but themselves to blame for the venom being shown their way, for they sowed the seed of intolerance, bigotry and hatred. Gay and lesbian people have justifiably grown tired of religious based attacks on themselves and their rights. And we&#039;re judging Mormons by their fruits, and those fruits are bigotry, intolerance, malicious and slanderous lies. And as long as Mormons continue in their quest to force and legislate their beliefs on what marriage should be, gays and lesbians will be there to stop them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;By their fruits, ye shall know them&#8221; </p>
<p>When those cute young Mormon missionaries come to our doors, bringing their Books of Mormon to give potential new converts they often quote this scripture from the Gospel of Mathew, 7:16 to be exact. Mormons or members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to be exact, love to show off their good works. Their prophet and founder Joseph Smith broke with the protestant tradition of &#8220;By faith alone&#8221;. He and Mormons believe that not only must you believe in Jesus Christ, the Book of Mormon and the ordinances (aka sacraments) of the church but also must do good among men. And this doing good among men, is what our Mormon friends, neighbors and acquaintances take seriously. Those Mormon missionaries with their white shirts and black pants bicycling around sharing the Gospel according to Joseph Smith, are the most public face of their church. They try to do good, they offer to volunteer, help elderly people go to and from the pharmacy, help people moving in and out, they hold doors open and they do all of this with a genuine smile on their face and a desire to do good. As they preach their newer, more complete and restored Gospel of Jesus Christ according to Joseph Smith, they have a tough time selling to people that Native Americans are lost tribes of Jews who fled just before the Babylonian Captivity and that Jesus Christ after his Crucifixion appeared resurrected to these same Native American Jews as Quezacoatl. So more often than not, Mormons fall back on this scripture in the Book of Mathew as a means of validating themselves to potential converts who are likely skeptical of Joseph Smith&#8217;s revelation.</p>
<p>The Mormon Church, very much like the Roman Catholic Church, recognizes that gay and lesbian people do not choose to be gay. Their current and former President (or Pope) has acknowledged scientific evidence that homosexuality is not and has never been a choice. But despite this the church still views homosexuality, same-sex marriage, and sex between same-sex couples as wrong. Far be it for me to tell Mormons what to believe, but here&#8217;s why this matters to the rest of us. While Mormons seek the full protection of the First Amendment&#8217;s protection of Freedom of Religion, due to their own history of persecution, they themselves don&#8217;t feel obliged to respect the freedoms of others, particularly the Freedom to Marry, which gay and lesbian Californians had prior to Proposition 8. The Mormon church didn&#8217;t simply preach their version of marriage in their own churches, chapels and temples, they used their church&#8217;s vast resources and deliberately meddled in the political affairs of California, breaking not only federal law, but violating the sanctity and dignity of marriages between same-sex couples. By doing this, the Mormon church spread a campaign of deliberate lies, telling the voters of California that Prop 8 was not about being anti-gay, but pro-family. Marriage equality never threatened traditional heterosexual marriage it only extended the current legal definition to include same-sex couples, in accordance with the equal protection clause of both the federal and Californian Constitutions. The Mormon church lied, bore false witness, used its funds in complete contradiction of federal law and even it&#8217;s own church doctrine. For gay and lesbian people, particularly married couples or couples on the verge of marriage, the Mormon fruit that is being born is not one of love and kindness but of hatred, intolerance and malevolent intervention in the private contractual affairs of people.</p>
<p>Mormons are wondering why there is so much venom, so much anger, so much hatred being shown to them. They need only look in the mirror, for those Mormons who didn&#8217;t support Prop 8 and haven&#8217;t ever harbored homophobia, they need to look at their church leadership. The Mormon church is getting the Lion&#8217;s Share of the attention, because they donated the Lion&#8217;s share of the Yes on Prop 8 money. &#8220;What thou sowest thou shalt also reap&#8221;, Mormons have no one but themselves to blame for the venom being shown their way, for they sowed the seed of intolerance, bigotry and hatred. Gay and lesbian people have justifiably grown tired of religious based attacks on themselves and their rights. And we&#8217;re judging Mormons by their fruits, and those fruits are bigotry, intolerance, malicious and slanderous lies. And as long as Mormons continue in their quest to force and legislate their beliefs on what marriage should be, gays and lesbians will be there to stop them.</p>
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		<title>By: Ramón</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-activists-rally-outside-mormon-temple-in-nyc/comment-page-7/#comment-30348</link>
		<dc:creator>Ramón</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 14:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4198#comment-30348</guid>
		<description>Helen: Your &quot;logic&quot; totally escapes me; no one has said anything about hurting anybody, yet you continue to play that card. We&#039;re wise to that tactic - try something new.
We don&#039;t hate the Mormons, we&#039;re simply going to boycott you.
You have strong convictions; we have strong dollars.
We&#039;ll see who blinks first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Helen: Your &#8220;logic&#8221; totally escapes me; no one has said anything about hurting anybody, yet you continue to play that card. We&#8217;re wise to that tactic &#8211; try something new.<br />
We don&#8217;t hate the Mormons, we&#8217;re simply going to boycott you.<br />
You have strong convictions; we have strong dollars.<br />
We&#8217;ll see who blinks first.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarrellec</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-activists-rally-outside-mormon-temple-in-nyc/comment-page-7/#comment-30323</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarrellec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 10:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4198#comment-30323</guid>
		<description>The reason the Mormon cult has become the target of the protests is that the cult donated a lot of money to impose their religious beliefs onto others and therefore have become the poster child for ALL the religious organizations which have made it their business to impose their religious beliefs onto other citizens.
It&#039;s really that simple.
The Mormons have just become a symbol of everything that is wrong with allowing religion to impose itself into the lives of others.  This is not supposed to be a theocracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason the Mormon cult has become the target of the protests is that the cult donated a lot of money to impose their religious beliefs onto others and therefore have become the poster child for ALL the religious organizations which have made it their business to impose their religious beliefs onto other citizens.<br />
It&#8217;s really that simple.<br />
The Mormons have just become a symbol of everything that is wrong with allowing religion to impose itself into the lives of others.  This is not supposed to be a theocracy.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen Westover</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-activists-rally-outside-mormon-temple-in-nyc/comment-page-7/#comment-30317</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen Westover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 10:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4198#comment-30317</guid>
		<description>Of course I grieved over Shepard&#039;s murder!  It exemplified what happens when hate reigns.  
So you are saying that it&#039;s time for YOU to   injure and hurt, or even kill, your opposition?  Do you realize how stupid you sound?  How childish?
So you think that you will prevail, bringing your own brand of hatred to the public square?  Well go ahead.  All the years of peaceful, reasoned tactics, and the freedoms thus won you by your forerunners will be for naught.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course I grieved over Shepard&#8217;s murder!  It exemplified what happens when hate reigns.<br />
So you are saying that it&#8217;s time for YOU to   injure and hurt, or even kill, your opposition?  Do you realize how stupid you sound?  How childish?<br />
So you think that you will prevail, bringing your own brand of hatred to the public square?  Well go ahead.  All the years of peaceful, reasoned tactics, and the freedoms thus won you by your forerunners will be for naught.</p>
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		<title>By: Ramón</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-activists-rally-outside-mormon-temple-in-nyc/comment-page-7/#comment-30260</link>
		<dc:creator>Ramón</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 03:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4198#comment-30260</guid>
		<description>Sure, Helen, sure.

Phyllis got a (cheesy) styrofoam cross knocked out of her clenched fists and she becomes the subject of moral indignation; which begs the question: Where were you and your followers, and how did you demonstrate against the heinous murder of Matthew Shepard? Or were you comforting the the poor misunderstood murderers? Did you attend the silent candle light marches, organized by THE SISTERS OF PERPETUAL INDULGENCE?
Did you shed a tear at the young life snuffed out because of HATE?

Somehow I don&#039;t think that she will be in the league of Matthew Shepard and Gwen Araujo, then again, it doesn&#039;t take much to provoke the religious taliban to cry foul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, Helen, sure.</p>
<p>Phyllis got a (cheesy) styrofoam cross knocked out of her clenched fists and she becomes the subject of moral indignation; which begs the question: Where were you and your followers, and how did you demonstrate against the heinous murder of Matthew Shepard? Or were you comforting the the poor misunderstood murderers? Did you attend the silent candle light marches, organized by THE SISTERS OF PERPETUAL INDULGENCE?<br />
Did you shed a tear at the young life snuffed out because of HATE?</p>
<p>Somehow I don&#8217;t think that she will be in the league of Matthew Shepard and Gwen Araujo, then again, it doesn&#8217;t take much to provoke the religious taliban to cry foul.</p>
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		<title>By: TigerTzu</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-activists-rally-outside-mormon-temple-in-nyc/comment-page-7/#comment-30258</link>
		<dc:creator>TigerTzu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 03:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4198#comment-30258</guid>
		<description>Helen Westover &quot;Violence has totally marred your message.  Phyllis Burgess is a victim of a Hate Crime, and deserves her day in court. and the ripple effect will be overwhelming&quot;

Too bad she wasn&#039;t severely beaten and hung on a fence to die.  Then maybe you would have something to whine about.  Funny you people are all about violence when you&#039;re the ones doing it to us, but when we strike back, oh the horror, the horror!  Your puritanical crusades have set the tone.  Dont come crying when we finally realize how the game is played and act accordingly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Helen Westover &#8220;Violence has totally marred your message.  Phyllis Burgess is a victim of a Hate Crime, and deserves her day in court. and the ripple effect will be overwhelming&#8221;</p>
<p>Too bad she wasn&#8217;t severely beaten and hung on a fence to die.  Then maybe you would have something to whine about.  Funny you people are all about violence when you&#8217;re the ones doing it to us, but when we strike back, oh the horror, the horror!  Your puritanical crusades have set the tone.  Dont come crying when we finally realize how the game is played and act accordingly.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen Westover</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-activists-rally-outside-mormon-temple-in-nyc/comment-page-6/#comment-30255</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen Westover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 03:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4198#comment-30255</guid>
		<description>Yes, Ramon; but people will remember Burgess, and what happened to her.  There are many in the LGBT community who are appalled at all this.  You have squandered political capital with these violent tantrums.  When another Prop 8 is put up for vote, they will remember this...and vote you down for sure.
Violence has totally marred your message.
Phyllis Burgess is a victim of a Hate Crime, and deserves her day in court.  and the ripple effect will be overwhelming</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Ramon; but people will remember Burgess, and what happened to her.  There are many in the LGBT community who are appalled at all this.  You have squandered political capital with these violent tantrums.  When another Prop 8 is put up for vote, they will remember this&#8230;and vote you down for sure.<br />
Violence has totally marred your message.<br />
Phyllis Burgess is a victim of a Hate Crime, and deserves her day in court.  and the ripple effect will be overwhelming</p>
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		<title>By: Ramón</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-activists-rally-outside-mormon-temple-in-nyc/comment-page-6/#comment-30247</link>
		<dc:creator>Ramón</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 02:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4198#comment-30247</guid>
		<description>Phyllis Burgess will no doubt have the full support of the Mormon cult&#039;s legal troops.
While Phyllis Burgess will have her day in court, tomorrow, men and women, straight and gay will march in support of another Phyllis, namely Phyllis Lyon. We will march to honor her and Del Martin&#039;s brave fight these past five decades for the civil rights of ALL Americans.
Their battle for civil rights and marriage will not have been in vain, despite the assault on their rights by haters disguised  as followers of the Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phyllis Burgess will no doubt have the full support of the Mormon cult&#8217;s legal troops.<br />
While Phyllis Burgess will have her day in court, tomorrow, men and women, straight and gay will march in support of another Phyllis, namely Phyllis Lyon. We will march to honor her and Del Martin&#8217;s brave fight these past five decades for the civil rights of ALL Americans.<br />
Their battle for civil rights and marriage will not have been in vain, despite the assault on their rights by haters disguised  as followers of the Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen Westover</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/gay-activists-rally-outside-mormon-temple-in-nyc/comment-page-6/#comment-30244</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen Westover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 02:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4198#comment-30244</guid>
		<description>It looks like Phyllis Burgess is filing charges over being assaulted.  Good.  Physically attacking old ladies sure looks like a &quot;hate crime&quot; to me.
Ramon, you have a lot to say; but you haven&#039;t cogently answered any of my point.  Hmmm.  O I get it!  It&#039;s because you can&#039;t!  
Violence and hate have no defense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like Phyllis Burgess is filing charges over being assaulted.  Good.  Physically attacking old ladies sure looks like a &#8220;hate crime&#8221; to me.<br />
Ramon, you have a lot to say; but you haven&#8217;t cogently answered any of my point.  Hmmm.  O I get it!  It&#8217;s because you can&#8217;t!<br />
Violence and hate have no defense.</p>
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