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	<title>Comments on: Florida Episcopal bishop permits blessing of married gay couples</title>
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	<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/florida-episcopal-bishop-permits-blessing-of-married-gay-couples/</link>
	<description>The daily news source for the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community</description>
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		<title>By: Southernhemisphere</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/florida-episcopal-bishop-permits-blessing-of-married-gay-couples/comment-page-1/#comment-73281</link>
		<dc:creator>Southernhemisphere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am so glad to hear someone say marriage is just that; Marriage, and not all these other nice terms of ambiguity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so glad to hear someone say marriage is just that; Marriage, and not all these other nice terms of ambiguity.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveMD2</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/florida-episcopal-bishop-permits-blessing-of-married-gay-couples/comment-page-1/#comment-73274</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveMD2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 03:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>And I missed something in the previous post - note this is in Florida - which except for a couple areas, is really almost part of the totally corrupt bible belt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I missed something in the previous post &#8211; note this is in Florida &#8211; which except for a couple areas, is really almost part of the totally corrupt bible belt</p>
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		<title>By: SteveMD2</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/florida-episcopal-bishop-permits-blessing-of-married-gay-couples/comment-page-1/#comment-73273</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveMD2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 03:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9681#comment-73273</guid>
		<description>This is a major step forward.  And I might note that about 4 years ago I attended a gay marriage in DC at an Episcopal church.

Yes it was called a &quot;committment ceremony&quot;.  But having been to a number of marriages over my lifetime including my own, the ceremony was identical to a marriage, except for the words. And this included the fact that the marriage did not have any legal meaning.

What I am saying is that the church will actually be even more progressive then its official stance.  And it has a group working on writing an official marriage ceremony for gay people.  Expected in a couple of years.

Of course, we have the monstrosity called the Catholic church, trying to destroy gay marriage in maine.  Just remember that these are the people who gave the world the hatred of the Jews, Jesus own people. Which reached its zenith when a Catholic used this hatred as a political lever to gain control of Germany, and give the world WWII and the holocaust.

Make no mistake about it - right wing christianity and Catholicism are control freak cults who will stop at nothing to keep their power over over people.  Every self respecting CAgtholic should close their pocketbooks to the church.  And if enoough do so, you will be surprised how quickly they will start to to change.  As someone once said - all you have to do is follow the money, and I&#039;ll add the power, and you&#039;ll understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a major step forward.  And I might note that about 4 years ago I attended a gay marriage in DC at an Episcopal church.</p>
<p>Yes it was called a &#8220;committment ceremony&#8221;.  But having been to a number of marriages over my lifetime including my own, the ceremony was identical to a marriage, except for the words. And this included the fact that the marriage did not have any legal meaning.</p>
<p>What I am saying is that the church will actually be even more progressive then its official stance.  And it has a group working on writing an official marriage ceremony for gay people.  Expected in a couple of years.</p>
<p>Of course, we have the monstrosity called the Catholic church, trying to destroy gay marriage in maine.  Just remember that these are the people who gave the world the hatred of the Jews, Jesus own people. Which reached its zenith when a Catholic used this hatred as a political lever to gain control of Germany, and give the world WWII and the holocaust.</p>
<p>Make no mistake about it &#8211; right wing christianity and Catholicism are control freak cults who will stop at nothing to keep their power over over people.  Every self respecting CAgtholic should close their pocketbooks to the church.  And if enoough do so, you will be surprised how quickly they will start to to change.  As someone once said &#8211; all you have to do is follow the money, and I&#8217;ll add the power, and you&#8217;ll understand.</p>
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		<title>By: judderwocky</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/florida-episcopal-bishop-permits-blessing-of-married-gay-couples/comment-page-1/#comment-73272</link>
		<dc:creator>judderwocky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 03:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9681#comment-73272</guid>
		<description>Jay,

Actually I think this IS a big step. As someone who has worked as advocate in the community, and who was raised in an Episcopal Church and School I can say this is a huge deal. The church I attended when I was young split over this issue (right here in Florida) within the past several years. Communities in Florida are definitely split over this issue. Forcing people to go to a Church that they disagree with, is not going get anybody anywhere except pissed off. Advancement in the religious realm is going to require changing hearts and minds. These advances may appear small to people who are outside the church or those who are unfamiliar with theology or church culture but this Bishop is risking quite a bit by putting this forward.

If you are unfamiliar with theology, it might seem, that this move is somehow putative or even punitive. Most churches and denominations however are usually reticent to sanction any relationship that falls outside of the &quot;legal&quot; system. The reasons for this are too numerous and difficult to go into.... it is a matter of the strange way in which religion(s), state governments, and the federal government have coexisted in this country (and elsewhere) for the last 200 some odd years. Bishop Frade however is elevating the status of these (existing) relationships by offering them a place at the table. Previous discussions have revolved around whether the sex act itself could be sanctified - whether or not clergy could be ordained without being celibate, or whether or not laity should be counseled in the same matter. Statements like these however advance the dialogue to a whole new level. The issue now isn&#039;t &quot;can the act be justified&quot; but rather, the extent to which it can be integrated into existing theological and liturgical practices. It might SEEM like a small step (and it is by no means ubiquitous within Episcopal culture yet) but this is actually a very nice push in the right direction. 

From a strategic standpoint the conversation can now be moved forward. Theologians and Church officials now have to justify and answer in clear theological terms &quot;why aren&#039;t the relationships being treated equally?&quot; (as in, what justifies a difference in treatment)  rather than &quot;can we in any way justify this relationship?&quot; Usually theological answers like this are decided after a lot of careful research, writing, and reflection of specially formed committees (at least within the Episcopalian context). I would expect in the next few years to see some sort of activity within the leadership in this direction, but theological progress often takes decades.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay,</p>
<p>Actually I think this IS a big step. As someone who has worked as advocate in the community, and who was raised in an Episcopal Church and School I can say this is a huge deal. The church I attended when I was young split over this issue (right here in Florida) within the past several years. Communities in Florida are definitely split over this issue. Forcing people to go to a Church that they disagree with, is not going get anybody anywhere except pissed off. Advancement in the religious realm is going to require changing hearts and minds. These advances may appear small to people who are outside the church or those who are unfamiliar with theology or church culture but this Bishop is risking quite a bit by putting this forward.</p>
<p>If you are unfamiliar with theology, it might seem, that this move is somehow putative or even punitive. Most churches and denominations however are usually reticent to sanction any relationship that falls outside of the &#8220;legal&#8221; system. The reasons for this are too numerous and difficult to go into&#8230;. it is a matter of the strange way in which religion(s), state governments, and the federal government have coexisted in this country (and elsewhere) for the last 200 some odd years. Bishop Frade however is elevating the status of these (existing) relationships by offering them a place at the table. Previous discussions have revolved around whether the sex act itself could be sanctified &#8211; whether or not clergy could be ordained without being celibate, or whether or not laity should be counseled in the same matter. Statements like these however advance the dialogue to a whole new level. The issue now isn&#8217;t &#8220;can the act be justified&#8221; but rather, the extent to which it can be integrated into existing theological and liturgical practices. It might SEEM like a small step (and it is by no means ubiquitous within Episcopal culture yet) but this is actually a very nice push in the right direction. </p>
<p>From a strategic standpoint the conversation can now be moved forward. Theologians and Church officials now have to justify and answer in clear theological terms &#8220;why aren&#8217;t the relationships being treated equally?&#8221; (as in, what justifies a difference in treatment)  rather than &#8220;can we in any way justify this relationship?&#8221; Usually theological answers like this are decided after a lot of careful research, writing, and reflection of specially formed committees (at least within the Episcopalian context). I would expect in the next few years to see some sort of activity within the leadership in this direction, but theological progress often takes decades.</p>
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		<title>By: Morgan</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/florida-episcopal-bishop-permits-blessing-of-married-gay-couples/comment-page-1/#comment-73260</link>
		<dc:creator>Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9681#comment-73260</guid>
		<description>Francis,

I care and so do a number of gay Episcopalians who like myself have spent their lives in the Episcopal church and who like it as I do. And who hope to maybe one day have it in some Episcopal church that performs same-sex weddings in a state where marriage equality is legal.

When my day comes to marry if it does, I want the best day of my life to be special and beautiful and not some occasion over with in 10 minutes in front of a judge or some official in some office (in front of a roomful of strangers) who calls out last name after last name as each is done.
But hey, that 100% secular way works for a lot of people. However, it doesn&#039;t for me.

It obviously may not matter to you Francis, whether you and your partner get blessed or not.  but it matters to a lot of gay Episoopalians. And also because it&#039;s my day and my partner&#039;s day it matters a lot to a future he and I. To me, it&#039;s not a who cares or an oh well, occasion. I have too much respect for however anyone celebrates their day, to just toss it off with a cavalier &quot;who cares&quot;? Hopefully someone cares about their day and hopefully it&#039;s some person&#039;s most beautiful day in their life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Francis,</p>
<p>I care and so do a number of gay Episcopalians who like myself have spent their lives in the Episcopal church and who like it as I do. And who hope to maybe one day have it in some Episcopal church that performs same-sex weddings in a state where marriage equality is legal.</p>
<p>When my day comes to marry if it does, I want the best day of my life to be special and beautiful and not some occasion over with in 10 minutes in front of a judge or some official in some office (in front of a roomful of strangers) who calls out last name after last name as each is done.<br />
But hey, that 100% secular way works for a lot of people. However, it doesn&#8217;t for me.</p>
<p>It obviously may not matter to you Francis, whether you and your partner get blessed or not.  but it matters to a lot of gay Episoopalians. And also because it&#8217;s my day and my partner&#8217;s day it matters a lot to a future he and I. To me, it&#8217;s not a who cares or an oh well, occasion. I have too much respect for however anyone celebrates their day, to just toss it off with a cavalier &#8220;who cares&#8221;? Hopefully someone cares about their day and hopefully it&#8217;s some person&#8217;s most beautiful day in their life.</p>
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		<title>By: francis</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/florida-episcopal-bishop-permits-blessing-of-married-gay-couples/comment-page-1/#comment-73255</link>
		<dc:creator>francis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 15:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9681#comment-73255</guid>
		<description>If I ever decide to get married I wouldn&#039;t give a darn if my marriage can be blessed or not. Who cares!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I ever decide to get married I wouldn&#8217;t give a darn if my marriage can be blessed or not. Who cares!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/florida-episcopal-bishop-permits-blessing-of-married-gay-couples/comment-page-1/#comment-73253</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9681#comment-73253</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Wayne. This is not a big step forward. It is a tiny, timid step. It is disingenuous to say that he is treating gay and straight couples equally by allowing blessings for marriage but not civil unions or domestic partnerships. In effect, he is endorsing a &quot;fag tax.&quot; You gotta go to the trouble and expense of traveling to the few states where gay marriage is permitted in order to be treated &quot;equally&quot; in your own church. What a crock. (Oh, and of course, you can&#039;t actually be married in the Church but remember, we treat everyone equally.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Wayne. This is not a big step forward. It is a tiny, timid step. It is disingenuous to say that he is treating gay and straight couples equally by allowing blessings for marriage but not civil unions or domestic partnerships. In effect, he is endorsing a &#8220;fag tax.&#8221; You gotta go to the trouble and expense of traveling to the few states where gay marriage is permitted in order to be treated &#8220;equally&#8221; in your own church. What a crock. (Oh, and of course, you can&#8217;t actually be married in the Church but remember, we treat everyone equally.)</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne M.</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/florida-episcopal-bishop-permits-blessing-of-married-gay-couples/comment-page-1/#comment-73241</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 00:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=9681#comment-73241</guid>
		<description>Bishop Leo Frade is taking a big step forward to ensure all people are welcome to come to Christ.  This also reminds us to work harder and with more courage for marriage equality, so it will be same-sex marriages, not just &quot;partnerships&quot;, that are blessed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bishop Leo Frade is taking a big step forward to ensure all people are welcome to come to Christ.  This also reminds us to work harder and with more courage for marriage equality, so it will be same-sex marriages, not just &#8220;partnerships&#8221;, that are blessed.</p>
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