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	<title>Comments on: Councilwoman retracts letter of support for San Diego gay pride</title>
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	<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/councilwoman-retracts-letter-of-support-for-san-diego-gay-pride/</link>
	<description>The daily news source for the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community</description>
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		<title>By: boB</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/councilwoman-retracts-letter-of-support-for-san-diego-gay-pride/comment-page-7/#comment-68721</link>
		<dc:creator>boB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8610#comment-68721</guid>
		<description>So am I the only person who actually wrote to Sterling?  The material she sent for the most part was not shocking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So am I the only person who actually wrote to Sterling?  The material she sent for the most part was not shocking.</p>
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		<title>By: sait</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/councilwoman-retracts-letter-of-support-for-san-diego-gay-pride/comment-page-7/#comment-68596</link>
		<dc:creator>sait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8610#comment-68596</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s an unfortunate reality that the most extreme and lascivious behaviors are those that are deemed most newsworthy, and thus are foremost in the minds and the opinions of those individuals who only have a sideline observer&#039;s view of what goes on in any given population.  

The radical extreme gets to put itself on prominent display during LGBT Pride parades, and those are the images that linger in the collective consciousness of the population at large.  The &quot;gay lifestyle&quot; then becomes defined (in the minds of those standing at a safe distance) by the defiant, celebratory theatrics that occur at these events.  

People who hate us have an arsenal of ammunition to draw from, as evidence of our &quot;depravity&quot;--news clips, home videos, candid pics taken from camera phones, etc. 

These images don&#039;t show the ordinary day-to-day nuts-and-bolts of life for lgbt people...because that&#039;s not INTERESTING enough.  

These images come to represent all of us who get lumped together under the &quot;queer&quot; umbrella--&quot;queer&quot; being defined by the spectator as &quot;odd&quot; or &quot;freakish&quot; or &quot;deviant&quot;--even those of us who subscribe to more conservative viewpoints.  

It&#039;s unfortunate that true diversity is not evident during these events, as that would mean that the stuffed shirts among us would have to join the spectacle and march in front of the cameras.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s an unfortunate reality that the most extreme and lascivious behaviors are those that are deemed most newsworthy, and thus are foremost in the minds and the opinions of those individuals who only have a sideline observer&#8217;s view of what goes on in any given population.  </p>
<p>The radical extreme gets to put itself on prominent display during LGBT Pride parades, and those are the images that linger in the collective consciousness of the population at large.  The &#8220;gay lifestyle&#8221; then becomes defined (in the minds of those standing at a safe distance) by the defiant, celebratory theatrics that occur at these events.  </p>
<p>People who hate us have an arsenal of ammunition to draw from, as evidence of our &#8220;depravity&#8221;&#8211;news clips, home videos, candid pics taken from camera phones, etc. </p>
<p>These images don&#8217;t show the ordinary day-to-day nuts-and-bolts of life for lgbt people&#8230;because that&#8217;s not INTERESTING enough.  </p>
<p>These images come to represent all of us who get lumped together under the &#8220;queer&#8221; umbrella&#8211;&#8221;queer&#8221; being defined by the spectator as &#8220;odd&#8221; or &#8220;freakish&#8221; or &#8220;deviant&#8221;&#8211;even those of us who subscribe to more conservative viewpoints.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s unfortunate that true diversity is not evident during these events, as that would mean that the stuffed shirts among us would have to join the spectacle and march in front of the cameras.</p>
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		<title>By: alrev2000</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/councilwoman-retracts-letter-of-support-for-san-diego-gay-pride/comment-page-7/#comment-68589</link>
		<dc:creator>alrev2000</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8610#comment-68589</guid>
		<description>The Pride parades (at least here in Sin City San Francisco) have become so tame that after the parade last month I commented to my friends that it seems one must be over 50 years old, or at least 25 pounds over weight, to be allowed to march. (And I&#039;m 59 myself.) The parades have become positively dull. Yes, they used to be rather shocking, and though that could be fun some people certainly did cross a line in my view. But rarely anymore. Those who believe that the parades are too shocking to view should check out the next one. They might find that there&#039;s really nothing to get excited about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Pride parades (at least here in Sin City San Francisco) have become so tame that after the parade last month I commented to my friends that it seems one must be over 50 years old, or at least 25 pounds over weight, to be allowed to march. (And I&#8217;m 59 myself.) The parades have become positively dull. Yes, they used to be rather shocking, and though that could be fun some people certainly did cross a line in my view. But rarely anymore. Those who believe that the parades are too shocking to view should check out the next one. They might find that there&#8217;s really nothing to get excited about.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/councilwoman-retracts-letter-of-support-for-san-diego-gay-pride/comment-page-7/#comment-68588</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8610#comment-68588</guid>
		<description>Everyday a Palestinian and a Jew try to kill each other. This is been going on for thousands of years. Both sides are convinced that they are one who is right. I personally don’t know. But what I do know is that their strategy of “fire then return fire” evidently is not working.

Everyday a Christian homophobe condemns gay people. Everyday gay people condemn Christian homophobes. Both of us have the right to our feelings, and this includes being uncomfortable in churches or uncomfortable around gay people. But we all have to live together, or at least should try.

Gay people use GayPride to both affirm ourselves, but also to condemn homophobes through our words, actions and political and sexual statements. We are pushing back – but each of us in our own way.

Homophobes mainly use either the pulpit of their churches or their political office to condemn gay people. They are pushing back from what they see is moral decay.

To an extent, they actually are correct in some ways. Where they are wrong is it is not “all” gay people, nor is immorality “inherent” to GLBT people or our sexuality.


I WOULD BE CURIOUS TO KNOW IF ANYONE OR ANY ORGANIZATION TOOK THE TIME TO SIT DOWN WITH EITHER A POLITICIAN OR CHURCHLEADER AND SIMPLY STATED:

Look, life is short. We are all in this together to all make the best lives that we can. Christians can beat on gays, gays can beat on Christians all that we want, but we are not accomplishing anything. So lets accomplish something. 

We want to be able to live our lives as we want to, and you folks should too. We don’t care what you believe, and if you believe that homosexuality is a sin, then more power to you. We don’t go to your church, so what happens there is your deal. 

Same with us. You might get turned off by the ick factor, and I can imagine that it can be a jolting experience to see even same gender affection. But since you are not in our private homes, then what happens there is our deal.

About your rhetoric about being against gay marriage – because gays are irresponsible and cannot respect the institution of marriage. To an extent you are correct, to an extent you are incorrect. Some gay can, and some gays cannot. Lets try to change that.

We all want the same thing here, or at least many of us do. Now you can beat up on gay people because of those who are promiscuous, but the problem here is that neither of us is going away anytime soon. Again, beating each other up with rhetoric and having culture wars did not accomplish anything in the last decades and future rhetoric is not going to drive thousands of gays from loving same sex relationships to instantly break up and convert to your brand of religion and fill your pews as new converts. Lets stop pretending and acting like idiots - and I mean both Christians and gays alike. What do we want to accomplish and what is reasonable?

What I would like religious organizations to do would be to tell me what the GLBT community needs to do to gain your public support in the legislative arena while you retain your own private beliefs as your organization? If it would never be enough even if every GLBT person were perfect upstanding citizens, with zero promiscuity and social ills, if it would still never be enough to gain your support for the civil (not religious) portion of same gender marriage, then we can stop having this conversation and politely go our separate ways. If walking on water is not enough, then we have to walk away. Go back to your rhetoric and I hope that this feels good for you, we will all go back to he same broken paradigm and see how bad we can hurt each other. But the status quo sounds like a stupid idea to me.

However if we can begin to demonstrate real change in which we demonstrate in the GLBT community:

A decrease in promiscuity
Decreases in new HIV infections
Continued commitment to the prevention of HIV and AIDS
Decreases in drug use and alcohol abuse in the GLBT community
Toned-down GLBT Pride Parades in which some represent places that are appropriate for even children
Decreased attendance at bathhouses
Decreased rates of smoking within the GLBT demographic
Increased rates of high school graduation
Increased rates of college graduation

Then essentially we are on our way to creating more productive contributing members of society which should be valued. This helps everyone, it could be a gay doctor that find a cure for cancer, who saves the lives of those very people in your own congregation or consitutency. I fail to see how deliberately harming others serves any real goals.

You as Christians have complete autonomy to retain your beliefs, and we respect whatever it is that you believe, we agree to disagree but will leave your religion alone. We don’t publicly attack your denomination; your denomination does not publicly attack our collective demographic.

If you as Christians want to get on board with being part of the solution, then lets work together to solve some of these problems. Work alongside us to empower others through programs, funding, public service messages, and your official public support. If you cannot find it in yourself to vote for same gender marriage, then at least don’t vote against us, just don’t vote on the issue. If you have a problem with the promiscuous of others, then join us to do something about it to solve the problem instead of doing nothing except complaining and also being part of the problem yourselves. 

If we can work together, then everybody wins. If you only find comfort in condemning others, then you are a lost cause and we cannot work together. But we want to offer you a place in being part of the solution to make a better world and will hope that you join us with finding common ground together.

HAS ANYONE SAID ANYTHING LIKE THIS TO OUR OPPOSITION?
Do we talk with our anti-gay politicians? If we have, HOW have we talke with them?
It is possible to try to start some dialog?

I don’t expect Fred Phelps to come out helping raise scholarship dollars for homeless gay youth anytime soon, but it is possible that at least Moderates, such as Ruth Sterling, might be able to be reached.

Just wondering…

Sincerely,
Mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyday a Palestinian and a Jew try to kill each other. This is been going on for thousands of years. Both sides are convinced that they are one who is right. I personally don’t know. But what I do know is that their strategy of “fire then return fire” evidently is not working.</p>
<p>Everyday a Christian homophobe condemns gay people. Everyday gay people condemn Christian homophobes. Both of us have the right to our feelings, and this includes being uncomfortable in churches or uncomfortable around gay people. But we all have to live together, or at least should try.</p>
<p>Gay people use GayPride to both affirm ourselves, but also to condemn homophobes through our words, actions and political and sexual statements. We are pushing back – but each of us in our own way.</p>
<p>Homophobes mainly use either the pulpit of their churches or their political office to condemn gay people. They are pushing back from what they see is moral decay.</p>
<p>To an extent, they actually are correct in some ways. Where they are wrong is it is not “all” gay people, nor is immorality “inherent” to GLBT people or our sexuality.</p>
<p>I WOULD BE CURIOUS TO KNOW IF ANYONE OR ANY ORGANIZATION TOOK THE TIME TO SIT DOWN WITH EITHER A POLITICIAN OR CHURCHLEADER AND SIMPLY STATED:</p>
<p>Look, life is short. We are all in this together to all make the best lives that we can. Christians can beat on gays, gays can beat on Christians all that we want, but we are not accomplishing anything. So lets accomplish something. </p>
<p>We want to be able to live our lives as we want to, and you folks should too. We don’t care what you believe, and if you believe that homosexuality is a sin, then more power to you. We don’t go to your church, so what happens there is your deal. </p>
<p>Same with us. You might get turned off by the ick factor, and I can imagine that it can be a jolting experience to see even same gender affection. But since you are not in our private homes, then what happens there is our deal.</p>
<p>About your rhetoric about being against gay marriage – because gays are irresponsible and cannot respect the institution of marriage. To an extent you are correct, to an extent you are incorrect. Some gay can, and some gays cannot. Lets try to change that.</p>
<p>We all want the same thing here, or at least many of us do. Now you can beat up on gay people because of those who are promiscuous, but the problem here is that neither of us is going away anytime soon. Again, beating each other up with rhetoric and having culture wars did not accomplish anything in the last decades and future rhetoric is not going to drive thousands of gays from loving same sex relationships to instantly break up and convert to your brand of religion and fill your pews as new converts. Lets stop pretending and acting like idiots &#8211; and I mean both Christians and gays alike. What do we want to accomplish and what is reasonable?</p>
<p>What I would like religious organizations to do would be to tell me what the GLBT community needs to do to gain your public support in the legislative arena while you retain your own private beliefs as your organization? If it would never be enough even if every GLBT person were perfect upstanding citizens, with zero promiscuity and social ills, if it would still never be enough to gain your support for the civil (not religious) portion of same gender marriage, then we can stop having this conversation and politely go our separate ways. If walking on water is not enough, then we have to walk away. Go back to your rhetoric and I hope that this feels good for you, we will all go back to he same broken paradigm and see how bad we can hurt each other. But the status quo sounds like a stupid idea to me.</p>
<p>However if we can begin to demonstrate real change in which we demonstrate in the GLBT community:</p>
<p>A decrease in promiscuity<br />
Decreases in new HIV infections<br />
Continued commitment to the prevention of HIV and AIDS<br />
Decreases in drug use and alcohol abuse in the GLBT community<br />
Toned-down GLBT Pride Parades in which some represent places that are appropriate for even children<br />
Decreased attendance at bathhouses<br />
Decreased rates of smoking within the GLBT demographic<br />
Increased rates of high school graduation<br />
Increased rates of college graduation</p>
<p>Then essentially we are on our way to creating more productive contributing members of society which should be valued. This helps everyone, it could be a gay doctor that find a cure for cancer, who saves the lives of those very people in your own congregation or consitutency. I fail to see how deliberately harming others serves any real goals.</p>
<p>You as Christians have complete autonomy to retain your beliefs, and we respect whatever it is that you believe, we agree to disagree but will leave your religion alone. We don’t publicly attack your denomination; your denomination does not publicly attack our collective demographic.</p>
<p>If you as Christians want to get on board with being part of the solution, then lets work together to solve some of these problems. Work alongside us to empower others through programs, funding, public service messages, and your official public support. If you cannot find it in yourself to vote for same gender marriage, then at least don’t vote against us, just don’t vote on the issue. If you have a problem with the promiscuous of others, then join us to do something about it to solve the problem instead of doing nothing except complaining and also being part of the problem yourselves. </p>
<p>If we can work together, then everybody wins. If you only find comfort in condemning others, then you are a lost cause and we cannot work together. But we want to offer you a place in being part of the solution to make a better world and will hope that you join us with finding common ground together.</p>
<p>HAS ANYONE SAID ANYTHING LIKE THIS TO OUR OPPOSITION?<br />
Do we talk with our anti-gay politicians? If we have, HOW have we talke with them?<br />
It is possible to try to start some dialog?</p>
<p>I don’t expect Fred Phelps to come out helping raise scholarship dollars for homeless gay youth anytime soon, but it is possible that at least Moderates, such as Ruth Sterling, might be able to be reached.</p>
<p>Just wondering…</p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
Mark</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/councilwoman-retracts-letter-of-support-for-san-diego-gay-pride/comment-page-7/#comment-68587</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8610#comment-68587</guid>
		<description>Chris,

I am quite proud of my body, and I am sure that you are proud of ours too. However I would not want to see my parents have sex, or my coworkers have sex either. Public nudity and public sexuality are things that we as a society have deemed inappropriate. 
Even so, there are designed spots for those who are inclined, as well as no shortages of clubs and classes which explore people and their bodies. There are private groups and organizations all over the GLBT community were I would not want to imagine what goes on in the privacy of their homes. 

The world does not bear a responsiblity to see naked people, so that nudiests can feel better about themselves and boast their self-esteem. These eare not and one person&#039;s personal standards, they are universal standards that are for the most part applied around the world. Sure we come into the world naked; people also fart too, but that does not mean that everyone has to smell it either to make you feel better. Some people view modesty and decency with shame about their bodies, others of us do not have these psychological issues. Essentially you are the one projecting your own individual psychological issues of expecting the world to accept your personal nudity. It is you who needs to keep your clothes on, not the rest of the world who need their clothes off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>I am quite proud of my body, and I am sure that you are proud of ours too. However I would not want to see my parents have sex, or my coworkers have sex either. Public nudity and public sexuality are things that we as a society have deemed inappropriate.<br />
Even so, there are designed spots for those who are inclined, as well as no shortages of clubs and classes which explore people and their bodies. There are private groups and organizations all over the GLBT community were I would not want to imagine what goes on in the privacy of their homes. </p>
<p>The world does not bear a responsiblity to see naked people, so that nudiests can feel better about themselves and boast their self-esteem. These eare not and one person&#8217;s personal standards, they are universal standards that are for the most part applied around the world. Sure we come into the world naked; people also fart too, but that does not mean that everyone has to smell it either to make you feel better. Some people view modesty and decency with shame about their bodies, others of us do not have these psychological issues. Essentially you are the one projecting your own individual psychological issues of expecting the world to accept your personal nudity. It is you who needs to keep your clothes on, not the rest of the world who need their clothes off.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/councilwoman-retracts-letter-of-support-for-san-diego-gay-pride/comment-page-7/#comment-68574</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8610#comment-68574</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s amazing to me is that these exhibitionists actually think that the world wants to see their stuff. We don&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s amazing to me is that these exhibitionists actually think that the world wants to see their stuff. We don&#8217;t.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chris Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/councilwoman-retracts-letter-of-support-for-san-diego-gay-pride/comment-page-7/#comment-68570</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8610#comment-68570</guid>
		<description>Or maybe their not self-conscious about their bodies and don&#039;t feel the need to live their lives by your personal standards. You come into the world naked and unashamed, you have to be taught to feel bad about not wearing clothes. Still, sounds like you&#039;re projecting your own issues onto people you don&#039;t even know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or maybe their not self-conscious about their bodies and don&#8217;t feel the need to live their lives by your personal standards. You come into the world naked and unashamed, you have to be taught to feel bad about not wearing clothes. Still, sounds like you&#8217;re projecting your own issues onto people you don&#8217;t even know.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/councilwoman-retracts-letter-of-support-for-san-diego-gay-pride/comment-page-6/#comment-68567</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8610#comment-68567</guid>
		<description>Those who parade naked in the streets during gay pride are demonstrating their low self-esteem and lack of self-respect and respect for others. This pathetic display is an attempt to boost their own egos by saying &quot;Look at me! Look at me! Aren&#039;t I outrageous?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those who parade naked in the streets during gay pride are demonstrating their low self-esteem and lack of self-respect and respect for others. This pathetic display is an attempt to boost their own egos by saying &#8220;Look at me! Look at me! Aren&#8217;t I outrageous?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/councilwoman-retracts-letter-of-support-for-san-diego-gay-pride/comment-page-6/#comment-68561</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8610#comment-68561</guid>
		<description>Here is what should happen:

Ron deHarte, executive director of San Diego LGBT Pride should personally meet with San Diego councilwoman Ruth Sterling. 

Without apologizing for the “lewd and lascivious behavior and unconscionable activities portrayed”, Ron should acknowledge this oversight then do appropriate damage control:

1) Listen to Ruth’s concerns and let her express all of her feelings
2) Admit fault and accept responsibility
3) Vow to act quickly to review policy
4) Devise a plan to correct the problem and make the plan known
5) Keep Ruth Sterling in the loop and formally invite her for the next PrideFest
6) Attempt to get her support in the future and state appreciation that she has helped make a difference and a positive change.

If she balks, then Ron would have simply tried his best, but has to move on, but still can:

1) Review policy
2) Devise a plan to correct the problem and make the plan known
3) Try to gain support (and retain support) wherever possible by making the changes known.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is what should happen:</p>
<p>Ron deHarte, executive director of San Diego LGBT Pride should personally meet with San Diego councilwoman Ruth Sterling. </p>
<p>Without apologizing for the “lewd and lascivious behavior and unconscionable activities portrayed”, Ron should acknowledge this oversight then do appropriate damage control:</p>
<p>1) Listen to Ruth’s concerns and let her express all of her feelings<br />
2) Admit fault and accept responsibility<br />
3) Vow to act quickly to review policy<br />
4) Devise a plan to correct the problem and make the plan known<br />
5) Keep Ruth Sterling in the loop and formally invite her for the next PrideFest<br />
6) Attempt to get her support in the future and state appreciation that she has helped make a difference and a positive change.</p>
<p>If she balks, then Ron would have simply tried his best, but has to move on, but still can:</p>
<p>1) Review policy<br />
2) Devise a plan to correct the problem and make the plan known<br />
3) Try to gain support (and retain support) wherever possible by making the changes known.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: boB</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/councilwoman-retracts-letter-of-support-for-san-diego-gay-pride/comment-page-6/#comment-68537</link>
		<dc:creator>boB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8610#comment-68537</guid>
		<description>Did anyone else get the materials from Sterling?

I looked at them and posted my opinion of what I saw.  Is there a way to upload the pdf files I received so that others can draw their own conclusion.

For the most part there was nothing over the top in the pictures. There were 2 exceptions which were questionable, but without context it is hard to judge those pictures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did anyone else get the materials from Sterling?</p>
<p>I looked at them and posted my opinion of what I saw.  Is there a way to upload the pdf files I received so that others can draw their own conclusion.</p>
<p>For the most part there was nothing over the top in the pictures. There were 2 exceptions which were questionable, but without context it is hard to judge those pictures.</p>
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