I especially loved…”Yet we have to spend a portion of our time coddling the ‘LGBT Christian/Jew’ crowd who lacks the intellectual and spiritual courage to break free from poisonous traditions.”

Perfect!

we get closer to the truth by using reason, evidence, logic. Not faith, revelation, authority or tradition. Stick uncompromisingly to that as a means of argument, or teaching, and stop respecting other people’s beliefs.

No matter how much they proclaim their “love” and “tolerance”, Christians on the whole are a very hateful group.

No we don’t, Wayne. Only imminent violence or physical danger is a reason to proscribe speech in the United States. Religion is an ideology, unlike sexual orientation and gender identity, which, in-born or not, are fundamental parts of a person’s being. You can claim that about religion but is ultimately something one chooses to follow. Ideologies are open to any criticism even if “unrestricted” or “irresponsible”.

“Here are a few facts: First, not all Christians are homophobic. In fact, the majority of Christians are LGBT positive or neutral on the issues.” –Wayne

Being Christian in 99% of cases means they accept a ‘holy’ book which condemns homosexuality in multiple places including a call to murder gay men as the law of god. Neutrality in such cases means siding with murderous homophobia. Being “LGBT positive” means pitying condescension to our ‘inferior lifestyle’ in my experience.

“Second, when religious fundamentalists use hateful lies and fear-raising against LGBT people, they violate the commandments and have no support in scriptures (which they are abusing and twisting anyway for their own purposes).” –Wayne

Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13. Clear as day to anyone who isn’t trying to square a circle. The fundamentalists at least are honest about their religious scripture; I’ll grant them that much, unlike ‘liberal’ believers.

“Third, neither religious fundamentalist nor LGBT people can gain respect by being disrespectful to others.” –Wayne

I don’t want their respect. People who believe in violent, egomaniacal father-figure gods are not the sort of people whose good opinion I seek. The Abrhamic flocks undying hatred of LGBT people is written in their ‘holy’ books and their centuries of on-going violent persecution.

I want my CIVIL rights in CIVIL society. These religions are the epicentre of homophobia and violence against LGBT people. Yet we have to spend a portion of our time coddling the ‘LGBT Christian/Jew’ crowd who lacks the intellectual and spiritual courage to break free from poisonous traditions.

When the gay positive Christian sects organize as strongly FOR gays as their conservative counterparts have against gays, I’ll listen.

When gay positive Christians hit the radio and t.v. and scream and screech JUST AS LOUD and JUST AS OFTEN as the fundy Christians do…I’ll gain some respect for them.

The ONLY Christian voice I EVER see/hear in the media about gay issues is the anti-gay voice. As a result, the gay positive sects just look like a SMALL, irrelevant, fringe group of Apostate churches that have no real moral authority.

Gay positive Christians need to get JUST AS CRAZY in their support of gays as the Fundy Christians are in their hatred of gays! Without this action, religion IS mostly a toxic thing in the lives of gays. This can’t be denied.

After ALL of the unspeakable things that have been done to OUR community by people of faith, in the name of god, it’s amazing that some gay Christians would see fit to give a lecture to their fellow gays about respecting religion more?!…

Are you kidding me? Instead of lecturing gays about not being haters, go and talk to the STRAIGHT MEMBERS of your gay positive church and let them know how DECADES of words and actions from fellow Christians have RIGHTLY hardened the gay community’s heart towards ANY possible goodness coming from religion!…

When the straights in liberal Christian churches have their own alternative to Dobson and company, and when they shout gay positive religious messages just as often in the media…I’ll start to think that religion is not a TOTALLY bad thing.

Yes, we should have the ability to discuss “opposing views” civily.

But we also need to be able to define acceptable opposing views vs. bigotry.

Quite simply the religious position against us is bigotry and not a valid opposing view.

Just like that student in the mock debate heckling an astronomy professor about evolution. Not an acceptable opposing view as we teach evolution as an accepted scientific theory (as close to “fact” as you get in science) and we aren’t going to entertain delusion-based arguments against it.

If we can set boundaries then we should expect civility. If I have to listen to someone say I am a sinner (in their minds…) I am not going to respond civilly!

I will never understand why someone would join a cult that seeks to eradicate you, so I have no sympathy for Morgan asking for civility.

Can we discuss if religion has a place in your private life and views? yes. Am I going to engage in an argument of whether or not I’m an abomination? No. You take that up with me and I will attack you as severely as I can.

And to say you are a “liberal gay christian” is to show you are brainwashed. They have “liberal” versions of religion to get your money, but they still use it to fund the hate machine. It is just a front to make you feel ok joining a cult that hates you.

Sad, but not to late to quit.