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Loading ...Anti-gay violence growing problem in Amsterdam
11.21.2008 9:28am EST
(Amsterdam, Netherlands) Amsterdam faces an ingrained problem of violence against gay men, despite its reputation as a haven of tolerance, according to a new study released.
Town councilman Freek Ossel said the University of Amsterdam study, commissioned by the city, said the Dutch capital must improve protection of gays, increase education, and encourage reporting of discriminatory incidents.“Amsterdam’s title as a gay capital, according to some people, has already been gone for years, and according to others in any case it’s at stake,” he said.
The study said 67 attacks were reported in Amsterdam in 2007. Police commissioner Leo Wilde said the number was about average for recent years and “is not decreasing.”
The figure is difficult to compare with other cities. Amsterdam, with 750,000 people, has tried for years to improve reporting of anti-gay incidents, but police believe most still go unreported.
The study found that most attacks were carried out spontaneously by poorly educated young men who feel their masculinity has been questioned.
“In 40 percent of cases the trigger is if people think they’re being targeted” for seduction, said Laurens Buijs, one of the study’s authors. Attackers “see gays as predatory animals that can strike at any moment.”
The study drew its title “As Long As They Keep Away From Me” from that fear. It concluded that the tolerance often professed by Dutch youth is only a veneer: gay men are accepted only as long as they don’t display stereotypically gay behavior.
The study combined a broad survey of Amsterdam youth with in-depth interviews with smaller groups. Authors also interviewed individual attackers and reviewed recent cases.
“It’s very sad confirmation of what we already suspected,” said Dennis Boutkan, chairman of the Union for Homosexual Integration. “The layer of social acceptance of homosexuality is exceptionally fragile and thin.”
“I’ve never understood this threatened mindset where people think that the _______ (fill in the blank with any scary foreign evil, muslims, Mormons, Orthodox Jews, the Jonas Brothers…) is going to ‘force itself on everyone else’ if we’re not careful.” How stupid can you fucking be. Look at California the fill in the blank ______ Mormons, Latino Catholics, Orthodox Jews voted en masse to take away the right to marriage for gays and lesbians. If Quebec allows religious accommodations to continue, it wont be long until some fill in the blank group, especially Muslims do the same damn thing in Quebec. I moved to Quebec to get away from religious nutcases. And if you are stupid enough to believe that religious groups wont try to push their beliefs on you, then you need to just go ahead and blow your fucking brains out cos you don’t have any. Kudos to Quebec for standing up against religious tyranny, they got rid of theocracy in the quiet revolution back in the 60s and the last thing they want is for Muslims or Sihks or Mormons to fill the void left by the authoritarian Catholic church.
“Has someone forced you to wear a turban, garmand, light a menorah or pray towards mecca lately? Explain how you’ve been imposed upon by those scary people who are different from you and we’d have more to talk about.” Yes, as an American I have had people of different religions impose their beliefs upon me. Be they Evangelical Christians along with Jews(Joe Lieberman), Mormons(duh!!!), Muslims, Latino Immigrant Catholics who all have voted to take away the rights of gays and lesbians. What did you think only native born Anglo Saxon protestant Americans were capable of homophobic bigotry?!?!? While Jews don’t force me to wear a yamuhka, Joe Lieberman sponsored DOMA and voted down every piece of gay rights legislation. Have Muslims forced me to pray toward Mecca, NO, but in 2000 Muslims voted OVERWHELMINGLY for George W Bush partly because he opposed gay rights. So yes, Muslims, Jews and Sihks, just like Mormons might be minority or “exotic” religious groups, but they have no qualms about imposing their religious views on others.
Quebec being INTELLIGENT, has decided to stand on those principles and values that has made Quebec a modern society. The Catholic Church used to RULE Quebec until the Quiet Revolution, the Catholic Church issued le Catechisme d’electeur to guide Quebecois Catholics to vote for l’Union Nationale candidates and Maurice Duplessis. Quebec woke up and overthrew the Catholic-Union Nationale theocracy and replaced it with separation of church and state. NOW Muslims and Jews believe that their status as minorities entitles them to push their own faiths on others.
Looking at California and how the Mormons, who represent only a fraction of the population, passed Prop 8 is prima facie evidence enough of how a minority religion imposes itself on others.
I don’t think we disagree as much as you make us out to Rodney.
Protection of minority rights within the constitution is the role of elected government. Successes include protection of gays in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in Quebec. We’ve seen a recent failure with prop 8 being put to a popular vote.
I also agree that one must adapt to the society one immigrates to. This includes learning the language and abiding by the law. I disagree that this should be couched in some sort of signed agreement between state and citizen. If people are afraid that someone will be stoned to death in the town square by these new strangers to their country, shouldn’t the LAW be enough protection for them?
These ‘commonly held secular values’ have all the protection they need within the constitution and the law. Because we continue to amend them as our society evolves, they should be a reflection of our societal values. It’s not perfect, but it’s better than a ‘Bureau for the Enforcement of National Identity’ in my opinion.
I’ve never understood this threatened mindset where people think that the _______ (fill in the blank with any scary foreign evil, muslims, Mormons, Orthodox Jews, the Jonas Brothers…) is going to ‘force itself on everyone else’ if we’re not careful.
Has someone forced you to wear a turban, garmand, light a menorah or pray towards mecca lately? Explain how you’ve been imposed upon by those scary people who are different from you and we’d have more to talk about.
We’d potentially have much more to talk about if you didn’t needlessly fling around insults like ‘fucking retard’…..
Speaking of Quebec, I am an immigrant to Quebec myself. I live in Ahuntsic in Montreal Nord, right on the edge of an area with African and Arabic immigrants. My Bloc Quebecois MP is Maria Mourani who is an immigrant herself, born in Cote D’Ivoire to Lebanese parents. I am gay, pagan, Irish and Cajun American and I was welcomed in Quebec with open arms. I have the right to practice my religion as I deem fit, I can walk to Parc Ahuntsic and do ritual with people watching if I wanted to. As a Gay person living in Quebec I have the right to marry my Quebecois boyfriend if we chose to do so. Quebec asked of me and I completely agree with this, that I learn to speak French,, je parle le francais courament et avec plaisir, and that I respect the separation of church and state. This means I cannot force my employer to give me off every pagan holiday, nor can I impose my pagan faith on secular post-Catholic Quebecois.
As an immigrant to Quebec myself, I find the Code of Herouxville extremely redundant and unnecessary, but the only time I have ever been called faggot or “fife”(pronounced feef) in Montreal was by a Morrocan immigrant. So perhaps immigrants to Quebec need to be reminded that sexism, homophobia, antisemitism and violence against women and gays is NOT tolerated. What Herouxville did was NOT attack Muslims, but remind immigrants that Quebec will not tolerate Muslim intolerance against gays, women, seculars, etc.
The Bouchard Taylor Commission was convened by Jean Charest to make a spectacle of Quebec. The media only cared about seeing the most ridiculous person talking about how Jews and Muslims need to celebrate Christmas. They never saw how an anglophone Montreal Jew moved to Rimousky and ended up being completely integrated into Francophone society, while at the same time practicing his own religion. That would have shown a positive image of Quebec, and we all know that Canada doesn’t like Quebec or anything French for that matter. It’s Canada’s little dirty secret. Save the whales, save the Muslims, police the world, Death to America most Canadians squawk. But when you ask them about how they treated francophones(speak white) or natives(residence schools) they get defensive and start spewing nonsense about how racist Quebec is.
http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/immigration-herouxville-code
Yes,, how intolerant of Herouxville to remind newcomers that they wont be allowed to kill gays, stone adulterers or force a halal diet upon Quebec. “pparently some newcomers to Canada take exception to Canada’s equality among the sexes, equal rights for Gays, Womens Rights, Divorce, Free Speech, Religious Freedoms, Racial Equality etc and many other rights fought for by groups in Canada who felt discriminated against. These rights which Herouxville and other groups who feel may not be agreeable to newcomers to this country whose religuious mores prohibit such association.”
Yes,, how dare the Quebecois to stand up for women’s rights, gay rights, religious freedom, freedom of speech and separation of church and state. They must all be racists against poor defenseless Muslims.
Kurt you’re like any Westmont dwelling sociopathic retard. You’re just like Jan Wong who blamed Quebec for Kimveer Gill going into College Dawson and shooting it up. Blame society for not accepting anti-social behavior when someone kills or hurts someone else.
Always count on the Globe and Mail to do everything possible to make Quebec out to be racist for wanting to be as French as the Rest of Canada is English. The article down below shows how Quebec deports homophobic imams instead of tolerating them. Unfortunately the article doesn’t tell you that Said Jaziri has had repeated run ins with police, not only in Quebec, but in France and his home country Tunisia. He lied on his Immigration Quebec papers, he violated human rights code, beat a counter protester, insulted and slandered gay and lesbian Quebecois on television. As far as I am concerned anyone who calls homosexuality a choice, a mental illness and advocates stoning for it should be deported. Oh HOW INTOLERANT of me. Vive le Quebec LIBRE, laic et francophone!!
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Page/document/v5/content/subscribe?user_URL=http://www.theglobeandmail.com%2Fservlet%2Fstory%2FLAC.20071016.IMAM16%2FTPStory%2FNational&ord=109357109&brand=theglobeandmail&force_login=true
What idiocy!
Muslims in Quebec have been coming by the droves. At first most Muslims who came to Quebec were seculars, often from Algeria or Lebanon, fleeing religious nonsense in their own countries. In the late 1990s and early 2000s Ottawa imposes upon Quebec a bullshit policy of multiculturalism which is akin to apartheid or plusieurs solitudes. Quebec like Holland has a long history of tolerance and pro-gay legislation, Quebec like Holland is very tolerant of people, often those who want to destroy that very culture. In Quebec there are anglophones who hate all things French and live right smack dab in the worlds second largest French speaking city. Sounds like racist White South Africans to me!! In fact I believe Jacques Parizeau in his very politically incorrect and truthful style called anti-French anglo-Quebececois white Rhodesians and he hit the nail right on the head. NOW, Quebec which has been more than welcoming to immigrants only asking them to learn and speak French and respect commonly held secular values, is being called racist for not allowing Muslims to force their religion on everyone else. Yes, how intolerant of Quebecois and Dutch and Gay people for not allowing a minority religion, Islam or Mormonism, to be imposed upon them.
Quebec past gay rights legislation back in 1976 in the Chartre des Droits et Libertes de la Personne, while the rest of Canada treated gays like mental patients. Quebec like Holland welcomed people into their society regardless of background or race, expecting them only to respect their language and commonly held secular values(ie women’s rights, gay rights, separation of church and state). And you consider this backward?!?! What fucking retard!!
Morgan – you’ve got to be kidding with this brochure and film nonsense. This was written with the panache of a preteen girl, and I half expected you to propose that lucky immigrants who finally pass the ‘quiz’ would be assigned their own ‘Dutch Friend Forever’ who would help them find their locker at school and make sure they get a library card.
I witnessed this same weak logic twisted into something very ugly recently in Quebec. The French-speaking majority here is on constant guard against any and all threats to its culture. Last year some backwater town full of old-stock white Catholic Quebecers, became convinced that the end of their way of life was imminent if the Muslim hoards at the gates were ever let in. They drafted up a document similar to the one proposed by Morgan, stating the town’s position on things like polygamy and public stoning.
It turned into a province wide discussion, government commission, report, and gong-show that went on for a year. In our current election campaign, opposition parties are actually proposing a Quebec constitution that immigrants must comply with similar to Morgan:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2008/05/22/qc-boutayreportadvancer0522.html
This is a dangerous path to go down. Who decides what our ‘values’ are? What exactly constitutes a ‘way of life’ and how do you define it? Who decides that you have genuinely adopted this way of life and what are the consequences if you do not conform? At some point could you be ‘not Dutch enough?’. Once this conversation starts separating people into ‘us and them’, you begin the process of dehumanizing the other. Name me one historical example where this has lead to anything good.
You cannot legislate someone’s hatred away. You can punish it within the bounds of the law, and you can protect citizens from it through the constitution, but intolerance is only cured through education.
As for the Muslim factor, given how they have been vilified, ghettoized, and discriminated against by white Europeans across the entire continent, it’s no surprise that they’re committing crime. If you were stuck in a social class just above leper with no hope of moving higher in your lifetime you might be angry and violent, too. Does that make hate crime acceptable? No. Does it add another factor to its likelihood of happening? I think so.
Oh my God of my choice.
Did Morgan say something that makes complete sense?!?! This cannot be true, it simply cannot be true. Nevertheless, being the principled person that I am, I have to say Morgan is right.
Anyway, I was in Holland in 2005 for about a month visiting New Orleans friends evacuated to the Rotterdam School of Arts. Rotterdam as anyone who travels knows is FULL of immigrants from everywhere. Most speak Dutch quite well, surprisingly, since most Dutch people refuse to speak their own language, most opting for English. Dutch multi-culturalism, which seems more and more like apartheid, has pushed ethnic minorities, who would otherwise integrate into Dutch society in a generation, into ethnic ghettos dominated by crime, bad schools and radical imams. The reasoning behind this concept of multi-culturalism isn’t new, it comes from the Dutch tradition of pillarization. Calvinists, Catholics, Liberals and Socialists all had their own political parties, social services, schools, etc. So when Jewish, Muslim, Bahais or other ethno-religious groups moved into Holland, they often made their own schools and maintained their own culture. However, the Dutch allow things to go too far, especially in the wake of cultural relativism. Practices from within cultural or religious groups, even those which are questionable within the community, are often tolerated under a blanket of cultural relativism. Muslims sending their prepubescent daughters to marry 50 year old men, which even bothers most Muslims, is tolerated because the Dutch have had it drilled into their head that to judge any practice from any group other than their own is tantamount to racism. The Dutch have a LONG history of being tolerant, in some cases too tolerant, of groups, practices and cultural particularities. But what gets me is that only in Holland could gay men be considered culturally intolerant because they don’t like being beaten up, stabbed and killed by Muslim immigrants. I mean, how intolerant of gay people not to allow a religious group to take away their rights! Sound familiar?
I don’t konw if the Dutch immigration authorities do this or not, but everyone who comes to reside in Holland or take up citizoenship there should be given a brochure in several major world languages including Arabic, Persian (Farsi) and Indonesian (huge country once a colony of the Dutch)as well as in Spanish, French and other major European languages including Russian explaning the Dutch way of life and culture that so many from outside of Holland view as “against their beliefs”. Before granting citizenship, foreigners to Holland should have to learn Dutch language, know Dutch history and government and know about Dutch way of life and be made to see a short movie of controversial(to them) Dutch things such as Dutch gay men and women getting married and all the other things that might make them want to run back home in disgust. They need to be told that is the way it is in Holland and that is what you can expect and they need to be quizzed on it all. And be given a few days to think about what they are getting into by becoming Dutch citizens.
And come back at a specific date and time to finish the citizenship proceedings or else they cannot be sworn in to citinzenship. And they need to asked point blank if they agreed to the Dutch way of life and accept it all including the things that would offend their culture back. If they don’t agree and accept Dutch way of life, then citizenship should be denied. As part of the movie and info they are getting, they should be made aware that hate crimes of any type including on GLBTs in Holland will be severely dealt with (of course if that is the case as I don’t know Dutch law and am just coming up with what I would hope would be the case about immigration into Holland.
Any foreigner bashing gays and doing hate crimes in general should be tried and deported and permanently barred from any future entry into Holland. Very hard to stop entry if Holland is one of many European countries with open borders.
I was in Scandinavia and once inside Scandinavia flying in from USA, you can go freely over the bridge from say Denmark to Sweden and from Sweden onto Norway with no border control for one example of open borders.
I have read elsewhere that it’s Muslim males who are doing most of the gay bashing in Amsterdam. If true, it’s important for the media – especially the gay media – to report that and not cover it up.
The time for civility and courteousness has subsided. You are my enemy, because you seek to sabotage the movement for gay rights and equality from within. You are an Uncle Tom, a traitor and I loath you.
That is the problem with homosexuals like you, you want to be nice, pleasant and civil even people are taking away your human rights, stepping all over them, and shitting on you. The last thing I want if I stand in the way of progress, is for someone to be civil to me. I absolutely HATE gay people who keep preaching that we should take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Because those homosexuals benefit from the hard work of others, while simultaneously telling us we need to hurry up to slow down.
So Morgan,, I have NO respect for you, from all that I have read from you, I loath you, revile you. You and those like you have held our community back for decades, and y’all are the reason we watch in amazement and shock while Nepal, Spain and South Africa have marriage equality before the US. Why should I respect your opinions?!?! If you are so angry,, then you should focus your anger, frustration and hatred towards the enemies of our community, instead you are on this site preaching the tranquilizing drug of gradualism ad nauseum. We don’t need to wait, we don’t need patience, this is the path we’ve taken for decades and it has gotten us NOGODDAMNEDWHERE. So shut the hell up and step aside, so real progress can be made.
Rodney Moore,
Why are you so mean to me?
I don’t deserve that hurt from you.
I have a right to my opinions which do not involve personal attacks on others.
Meanness is apparently your method of stifling exchange of ideas, I will not be silent nor will I “step aside”.
Nor will I quit being courteous to you. But at the same time, I do not have to take your cruelty and your insults.
That is EXACTLY what you keep saying.
I am a Socialist and I am not filtering anything through my “ideological lens”. I am quite non-partisan, quite non-ideological when it comes to issues of gay equality. Why?!? Because Gay rights and equality transcend politics, it is not about politics as usual, but people’s rights and lives. When justice is delayed it is denied. Furthermore, when you and Morgan and Mark and half the “writers” of this site keep telling gays how good they have it already and how we need to be patient, you are doing a disservice to gays and lesbians throughout America. You yourself seem only concerned with Obama and the Dems, putting our concerns, assuming you are gay and one of us, on the back burner. Why is that!?!? Why do you want to sacrifice gay issues at the altar of the false gods of electability for an election four years away?!?! People like you never cease to amaze me.
Rodney Moore said: “You and people like you are in the way, you impede progress”
Yeah, sorta like brakes get in the way of the accelerator. If you want to get somewhere without crashing, you need both the brakes and the accelerator. A philosophy of “full speed ahead and let the consequences be damned!” is a philosophy for disaster.
Rodney Moore said: “What I am hearing from the likes of you and Morgan, is that not even gay people should care about gay issues”
I’ve never said anything even close to that – just the opposite – and I haven’t noticed anything in Morgan’s comments of that nature either.
You seem to be reading and interpreting through ideology-colored glasses, instead of seeing what’s actually being written.