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	<title>Comments on: 4th diocese breaks away from Episcopal Church over gays</title>
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	<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/4th-diocese-breaks-away-from-episcopal-church-over-gays/</link>
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		<title>By: Alex Parrish</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/4th-diocese-breaks-away-from-episcopal-church-over-gays/comment-page-1/#comment-30685</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Parrish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4248#comment-30685</guid>
		<description>AP Wrote:&quot;The vote is the latest fallout from the 2003 consecration of the first openly gay Episcopal bishop, V. Gene Robinson of New Hampshire.&quot;

That consecration may have been the &quot;straw that broke the camel&#039;s back&quot; but this angry group of people have been on the verge of mutiny for a long, long time over issues such as updating the prayer book to more modern English and the ordination of women. In a sense, this group of conservatives is living in denial of the 21st century (and most of the 20th). They have a lot in common with US Evangelicals, but would vehemently deny any such comparison. Most of these arguments are not really theological, but rather sociological in origin.  Again -- they would deny this, but to an outside observer (I am not an Episcopalian, but do have a firm grasp of the theology embraced by various factions) it is clear that this conservative movement within the church is simply in denial. They will make their bed with the African Church until they see that the prime reason the African church welcomes them is because of the possibility of US funds flowing into African coffers. Once the novelty wears-off those congregations will find themselves adrift and will likely seek reunification. that may take a generation, but it will happen. All of this aside -- I just wanted to point-out that while this seems a gay issue, it is only peripherally so.  The Episcopal Church in the USA, while still attempting to be sensitive to its more conservative members, is still supporting and ordaining both gay and lesbian priests, and is fully committed to the ordination of women. I don&#039;t believe they will change-course on those issues.  The very small group of mutineers will not significantly affect ECUSA as a whole except, of course, as pointed out, the financial cost of associated legal fees and some percent of donations - which I believe ECUSA can absorb without any significant damage.
In the end -- this will be a minor footnote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AP Wrote:&#8221;The vote is the latest fallout from the 2003 consecration of the first openly gay Episcopal bishop, V. Gene Robinson of New Hampshire.&#8221;</p>
<p>That consecration may have been the &#8220;straw that broke the camel&#8217;s back&#8221; but this angry group of people have been on the verge of mutiny for a long, long time over issues such as updating the prayer book to more modern English and the ordination of women. In a sense, this group of conservatives is living in denial of the 21st century (and most of the 20th). They have a lot in common with US Evangelicals, but would vehemently deny any such comparison. Most of these arguments are not really theological, but rather sociological in origin.  Again &#8212; they would deny this, but to an outside observer (I am not an Episcopalian, but do have a firm grasp of the theology embraced by various factions) it is clear that this conservative movement within the church is simply in denial. They will make their bed with the African Church until they see that the prime reason the African church welcomes them is because of the possibility of US funds flowing into African coffers. Once the novelty wears-off those congregations will find themselves adrift and will likely seek reunification. that may take a generation, but it will happen. All of this aside &#8212; I just wanted to point-out that while this seems a gay issue, it is only peripherally so.  The Episcopal Church in the USA, while still attempting to be sensitive to its more conservative members, is still supporting and ordaining both gay and lesbian priests, and is fully committed to the ordination of women. I don&#8217;t believe they will change-course on those issues.  The very small group of mutineers will not significantly affect ECUSA as a whole except, of course, as pointed out, the financial cost of associated legal fees and some percent of donations &#8211; which I believe ECUSA can absorb without any significant damage.<br />
In the end &#8212; this will be a minor footnote.</p>
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		<title>By: Bud Burgoon-Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/4th-diocese-breaks-away-from-episcopal-church-over-gays/comment-page-1/#comment-30677</link>
		<dc:creator>Bud Burgoon-Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4248#comment-30677</guid>
		<description>Look at the numbers: 18,000, 19,000 ... these are small dioceses, even by Episcopal standards. The only one of any size is Pittsburgh, and the former bishop will NOT succeed in taking the majority of parishes, parishioners, or endowments with him into heresy and schism. FAITHFUL Episcopalians in the Diocese of Pittsburgh have made SURE of that. Ditto the other heretical, schismatic dioceses:

&quot;Buh BYE, and don&#039;t forget to leave the deeds to your properties, the bank cards to the parish accounts and endowments, and your PENSION FUND as you leave; don&#039;t let the door hit you in your heretical, Calvinist/Congregationalist ASSES.&quot;

&quot;Abandonment of Communion&quot; is sufficient reason to confiscate Church Pension Fund accounts of dissident heretical/schismatic FORMER priests.

There IS no crisis, except a craven COWARD on the throne of St. Augustine. ++ Michael Ramsey, a thoroughgoing anglo-catholic, would have settled THEIR hash in EXTREMELY short order. The present Archbishop of Canterbury has thrown GLBT people under the bus for the sake of preserving the &quot;Anglican Communion,&quot; which nobody had ever HEARD of until the Lambeth Conference of 1900 (!).

We are AUTONOMOUS, AUTOCEPHALUS Provinces , governed by our national synods and electing/appointing our own bishop. We have NO say in the appointment of the Archbishop of Canterbury by the British Crown. He has NO authority over ANY Province, save Canterbury.

Bud Burgoon-Clark
lifelong high-church Episcopalian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look at the numbers: 18,000, 19,000 &#8230; these are small dioceses, even by Episcopal standards. The only one of any size is Pittsburgh, and the former bishop will NOT succeed in taking the majority of parishes, parishioners, or endowments with him into heresy and schism. FAITHFUL Episcopalians in the Diocese of Pittsburgh have made SURE of that. Ditto the other heretical, schismatic dioceses:</p>
<p>&#8220;Buh BYE, and don&#8217;t forget to leave the deeds to your properties, the bank cards to the parish accounts and endowments, and your PENSION FUND as you leave; don&#8217;t let the door hit you in your heretical, Calvinist/Congregationalist ASSES.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Abandonment of Communion&#8221; is sufficient reason to confiscate Church Pension Fund accounts of dissident heretical/schismatic FORMER priests.</p>
<p>There IS no crisis, except a craven COWARD on the throne of St. Augustine. ++ Michael Ramsey, a thoroughgoing anglo-catholic, would have settled THEIR hash in EXTREMELY short order. The present Archbishop of Canterbury has thrown GLBT people under the bus for the sake of preserving the &#8220;Anglican Communion,&#8221; which nobody had ever HEARD of until the Lambeth Conference of 1900 (!).</p>
<p>We are AUTONOMOUS, AUTOCEPHALUS Provinces , governed by our national synods and electing/appointing our own bishop. We have NO say in the appointment of the Archbishop of Canterbury by the British Crown. He has NO authority over ANY Province, save Canterbury.</p>
<p>Bud Burgoon-Clark<br />
lifelong high-church Episcopalian</p>
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		<title>By: blacksteel</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/news/4th-diocese-breaks-away-from-episcopal-church-over-gays/comment-page-1/#comment-30656</link>
		<dc:creator>blacksteel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4248#comment-30656</guid>
		<description>&quot;the secessions have a large cost to the national church, not only in legal expenses and lost donations from the dioceses, but also in damage to the Episcopal public image&quot;

Whose fault is that, the liberals or the conservatives? In whose eyes are the secessions causing &quot;damage to the Episcopal public image&quot;? The writer seems to imply that the liberals are doing something wrong rather than the conservatives.

This kind of bias is why 365gay.com should not publish Associated Press articles without editing them. It should be a gay rights advocacy site, shouldn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the secessions have a large cost to the national church, not only in legal expenses and lost donations from the dioceses, but also in damage to the Episcopal public image&#8221;</p>
<p>Whose fault is that, the liberals or the conservatives? In whose eyes are the secessions causing &#8220;damage to the Episcopal public image&#8221;? The writer seems to imply that the liberals are doing something wrong rather than the conservatives.</p>
<p>This kind of bias is why 365gay.com should not publish Associated Press articles without editing them. It should be a gay rights advocacy site, shouldn&#8217;t it?</p>
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