Comments on: Russian Orthodox Church embraces gays

By: DragonScorpion

DragonScorpion — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 09:25:25 +0000

When it comes to action, this is pretty worthless, but symbolically, for the Russian Orthodox Church to be even this supportive of homosexuals is pretty significant.

Thinking in terms of increments, which all civil-rights movements must, this is a step forward. What will be telling is if there are any other supportive statements in the near future or if there will be backpeddling.

By: oatc

oatc — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 15:35:41 +0000

| Patriarch Kirill says gays and lesbians must not be
| persecuted or discriminated against in any way, though the
| church still opposes same-sex marriages.
|
| The patriarch’s statements, a breakthrough for the Russian
| church, were made during a meeting Wednesday with visiting
| Council of Europe Secretary General Thorbjorn Jagland.

Oh come on! He was meeting with the general secretary of the body that runs the European Convention on Human Rights and the European Court of Human Rights, the Supreme Court on Human rights matters for a vast swathe of countries from the French Caribbean South Pacific right round the globe to Russia’s Vladivostock, under which discrimination against LGBT people is illegal. What else could he say? In fact, having him make such a statement was probably the point of the meeting.

Kirill was able to maintain his advocacy of discrimination against us in marriage because eligibility for marriage is reserved, in the convention, for member states to decide on the basis of morality. Until someone creates a law case challenging the religious basis of our exclusion on morality grounds in one of the member states that still exclude us (five have equal marriage), people will continue to advocate discrimination, and stoke hatred, against us using that.

So, no breakthrough. Hypocrisy and double-dealing as usual. Sorry.

Representatives of the Roman Catholic church in CoE member states have said exactly the same even though the Vatican stokes hatred against us wherever possible. But the Vatican is not a CoE member, and takes full (or excessive) advantage of that distinction.

What will be interesting will be the pope visiting the UK in 2010 without placing his local officials in an impossible position on human rights whilst he flies off with his diplomatic passport, immune from prosecution.

By: Danny

Danny — Sat, 26 Dec 2009 05:31:04 +0000

Kirill’s comments were merely meant for the West, and not for Russia. Russian Orthodox Church has always encouraged and perpetrated violence against gays.

By: Drewski

Drewski — Fri, 25 Dec 2009 05:45:45 +0000

Well…let’s see…within two miles I know I have Greek, Russian and Antiochan Orthodox. Within 15 miles I have Serbian, Byzantine, Romanian, Albanian and Armenian Orthodox. (Not sure about Syrian Orthodox, but thought we had one of those too.) I haven’t heard of any of them coming out all gay-happy. I’ll believe it when I see it.

By: mykelb

mykelb — Fri, 25 Dec 2009 00:48:21 +0000

SteveHanson: What we should do is start our own religion and funnel our tax exempt money into fighting the Mormons and Catholics.

By: mykelb

mykelb — Fri, 25 Dec 2009 00:46:48 +0000

Pauliji: I totally agree with you. Screw religion, sue the state on Constitutional grounds and get your rights. If other minorities can do it, so can we.

By: Jacquemar

Jacquemar — Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:48:12 +0000

Steve, that’s a good idea, but in more oppressive areas of the world, where people are in the closet, it would be totally ineffective.

By: SteveHansen

SteveHansen — Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:05:12 +0000

“gays and lesbians must not be persecuted or discriminated against in any way, though the church still opposes same-sex marriages.”

Translation: The church will continue to discriminate against gays and lesbians, by denying them rites that are freely given to everyone else. But, gays and lesbians are welcome to sit in the pews and give money.

I wouldn’t call that an embrace. I think it is more likely that the Orthodox Church just needs money.

What do you think would happen if all gay and lesbian musicians, decorators, florists, and clergy just did not show up on Sunday? In most churches, they couldn’t put on the show.

Maybe we should call a “Gay Strike”. All gays and lesbians should refuse to go to Church on Sunday, until each church changes it’s hateful policies.

By: Peter Formaini

Peter Formaini — Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:14:25 +0000

Human progress has always consisted of two steps forward and one step back. If history teaches us anything, it teaches us that.

Be grateful for the two steps forward – and accept that there will be a step backwards somewhere in the mix.

If you do not accept that fact, you will have a miserable existence – never being able to accept the good while continuing to reform the bad.

By: Ng

Ng — Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:57:05 +0000

The patriarch only said it to placate visiting Council of Europe Secretary General Thorbjorn Jagland. Until the Russian Orthodox Church starts to follow his word, GLBT people shouldn’t take his opinion at face value.