Valentino could you pleae email me if its ok that I ask one question to you?
thanks

“Not acceptable”? Let’s talk about what’s “not acceptable”. Assaulting a cop and attempting to grab his gun – if this is indeed what happened – is “not acceptable”. And it would not be TREATED as acceptable by any jury in this country, regardless of the sexual orientation of the attacker. Now, if other facts or testimony end up showing that this isn’t really what happened (e.g. that Hirschfeld wasn’t really being aggressive toward the officers, or that they exaggerated the threat he posed)… or if we find out that the cops behaved in a homophobic manner toward Hirschfeld BEFORE any aggression he might have committed (i.e. intensified the situation by way of discriminatory treatment)… then we might have grounds for some of the conclusions that are being drawn here. But until we know more than an eight-paragraph news story can tell us, refraining from such strong judgments would seem to be the most fair and prudent course of action. Heavy accusations, such as police brutality and unjustified killing, should only be made on the very strongest of evidence.

Keep in mind, neither this post nor my first advocates in any way for simply “taking the side of the cops”. All I’m saying is that the entirety of the facts must be considered — and the legal process, while it may not be perfect, is the best mechanism we’ve been able to develop thus far for determining the truth of disputed issues. During the course of the trial, we MAY (or may not) determine that these individual cops were innocent of any wrongdoing. And if there’s anyone in the world who should understand how wrong it is to judge people as a group, or on insufficient evidence, I would think it would be us in the GLBTQ community. For instance, remember the old assumption – still heard in many places! – that all gay men are pedophiles? Doesn’t it make you incredibly angry to be placed in an odious category where you don’t deserve to be? Well, I’d have to assume that “good eggs” in law enforcement feel the same way about being generalized as thugs owing to the actions of SOME other cops who are… yet this is exactly what some of the comments here are doing — assuming aggression and homophobia were present, from little more information than the fact that the shooter is a cop and the victim was gay. Sorry, but when the GLBTQ community says “whaddaya expect, they’re cops”, it’s just as unfair as when the Religious Right says “whaddaya expect, they’re queers”.

And PJ, I’d have to be blind to deny your basic premise that there’s been a lot of homophobic violence perpetuated by cops throughout American history, or that interactions with law enforcement are a setting in which we as a community more commonly face discrimination. But, like any wrongful act, these are only fairly attributable to the individuals who actually commit them. Until a fair trial demonstrates anything else (and it *might* – that’s why we conduct one!), the only thing the San Diego officers have in common with those cops who HAVE perpetuated homophobia is the fact that they wear a badge.

(Incidentally, at first I was amazed to hear that case-by-case assessment, and reservation of judgment until full facts are presented, now constitute “straight-wannabe conformity”. Then I realized that, as a long-term avowed agnostic, I’m already more than familiar with the basic excluded-middle paradigm. The agnostic position is essentially rooted in an objection of insufficient *evidence* for God’s existence — yet the Catholics think we actively judge religious people, and the atheists think we’ve actively decided to be chicken-s–t. So I suppose it’s *understandable* that people who come into a situation having already decided they hate the cops would misread a neutral “wait and see” response as actively pro-cop — but that doesn’t render any less distressing our society’s increasing tendency toward rashness and rancor).

And as for “bowing to authority”: sorry, but I don’t think that failure to jump to conclusions is evidence of affliction with Stockholm syndrome; I don’t think that the possible approaches to a political question can be divided neatly into Justifiable Rage Of The Entitled and Capitulation Of The Shrinking Violet; and I don’t think that judging individual cases as individual cases will lead inexorably to another Holocaust. (If anything, too much *generalization* runs the risk of providing a fertile host for the sort of hatred and animus that, left unchecked, leads humanity in such tragic directions…)

After reading the article and comments about this tragic event, I agree that a little more than “let’s just be cool and let the lawyers handle it” seems a little too naive.
Having grown up in an era of american intolerance toward gay and transgendered people I know that if this kind of attitude continues in the gay community that more trouble will continue unchecked. Straight people need to know that this is intolerable and in this day and age unacceptable. They need to hear that message loud and clear

I can hardly believe that any sane gay person would give the police in this case the benefit of the doubt. I have to doubt that the pro-cop comments here were written by gay people. Cops (or people like them) have been murdering, beating, harassing and imprisoning gay men forever. This is just another extreme case. The cops will get off, of course. Partially because the gay population right now has been placated by token pro-gay sentiments here and there. There is no gay rage, gay movement for true justice and freedom. All we have is straight-wannabe conformity, as evidenced here. Well, ask someone who lost a relative in the Holocaust where bowing to authority leads you.

It’s just about time we formed our own Militia which we can take on cruises and elsewhere. which we can post in our neighborhoods and stand guard at our weddings. Which we can use to protect our children in schools. It is obvious that the so-called ‘Good People’ of American – read christian/straight – want us dead-dead-dead. Time to fight back. We have a constitutional right to be protected by the officers who taxes we pay. Failing that, we have a constitutionaly right to life/liberty and happiness AND the right to bear ARMS. ‘Cause ignoring it, or sending happy thoughts at our attackers is not working. The reason we have any kind of freedom here in the US is because of the Stonewall Riots where Gay Men in NY poured into the streets and attacked the attackers. They sure woke up and took notice then! Fight hate with hate.

How much of a threat was someone who had just climbed aboard the Harbor Patrol launch by rope, after having fallen 30-feet from the charter yacht and then treading water for about 20-minutes before the launch arrived? This man was only dressed in sneakers and shorts–obviously unarmed–and was shot in the back. Also, there was an inordinate amount of time before the police reported the incident, while they concocted a “cover” story to attempt an explanation of their bizarre behavior.

Anytime someone most likely on meth or PCP assaults a police officer and tries to take his gun, he can only expect such behavior to be met with lethal force.

These cops have made a promise to their wives, partners, children and families to come home alive at the end of their shifts. There is no time to anaylze the motives of an assailant.

Don’t blame the police. Blame the permissive attitude in the gay community towards alcohol and widespead use of drugs.

With hate crimes against gays on the rise in Southern California I’m not surprised this kind of thing would/could happen. I wouldn’t put it past the police boys to stick together on this kind of action!