Comments on: Vanasco: Do we need religion to win gay marriage?

By: Patricia

Patricia — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:09:04 +0000

This is true across the board, not just with LGBT rights. I know there are a lot of practicing spiritual people out there who are sane and thoughtful; why have they gone so silent in the last 20 years or so?

By: Kuppers

Kuppers — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:42:18 +0000

Technically though, the Bible’s arguments are not only limited to gays, but to all people that cannot reproduce (I think this was in Genesis). I really beleive this was why homosexuality was banned, not because it was wrong, but because it didn’t reap mini humans to carry on the word. Ask any Christian WHY homosexuality is wrong and they will give you a bullshit answer about how ‘it just is’ or ‘men and women are supposed to be together’.
Now, on to this article. I really don’t think we should become them to beat them. It wouldn’t work. We actually need to go to the ‘neutral’ party, the government, because when it comes down to it, its higher than the church’s authority. This is a democracy, not a theocracy, and too many leaders allow their religious beleifs to completely overshadow fairness and equality. If all men are created equal, then they should have no such problem making marriage legal ( I don’t say gay marriage because marriage is marriage, the government can’t take away our basic right to love.) But, as such, it is not the case. I hope that when I grow up (still a minor. Fourteen to be exact.) the world will have at least realized that your religion is like your sexuality, it’s a vital part of you, but you shouldn’t be judged based on it.
~cupcake.

By: Katie Murphy

Katie Murphy — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 01:49:33 +0000

SEE: http://queeringthechurch.wordpress.com/2009/05/29/marriage-equality-the-church/

Below is some info on which churches are supportive, which are close to supportive, and who are the religious nazis.

Religious Supporters of gay equality:

United Churches of Christ
Metropolitan Community Church
Jewish Reform and Reconstructionist
Some Jewish Conservatives
Unitarian Universalists

Well on their way to supporting gay ===

Most of the Episcopal church. Let the bigots leave. Bishop Gene Robinson is the “shot heard round the world.

Evangelical Lutherans: Well on their way. This is the progressive Luth. group. They will allow gay ministers, and may possibly vote to allow gay ministers in relationships

PresbyterianUSA – Reasonably progressive, local church says they have individual option of blessing gay partnerships. Allow gay ministers, but recent voting says allowing gay ministers in relationships is not ok, though the vote is much closer than it was some years ago.

Hopeless as a church, but over half of the members under 30 are supportive of gay marriage…………..

Catholic church – Many supportive but Pope’s terrorism forces many progressive priests into another variant of the closet. For their life work will end if they come out in favor of gay marriage. Many supportive forward looking members, who need to be pried loose from the church and encouraged to join the Episcopal or UCC Church
As for the church itself, it is run by Razi, an unrepentant right winger who told Africans they shouldn’t use condoms, should practice abstinence. Despite the fact that 23 million in Africa are dying of AIDs. There is a group called Dignity USA, they need to be convinced en masse to leave the church. And lets remember that Razi unexcommunicated a holocaust denier. What else would you expect from a control freak who learned absolute control while growing up in Germany.

Church of protestant hatred incarnate.

Southern Baptists – But note that a good number of the younger people are more progressive, and need to be reached and educated.

As for the older people, remember this church was set up to defend slavery and then created segregation.
It is full of secretly gay people who are actively homophobic and need to be outed no matter what the cost. They are the equiv of Jews who would have worked for the nazis.

Southern (mostly) independent christian churches. Generally non-denomiational, bible believing groups similar to so. Baptists, who fail to stone their whore daughters to death as per the bible, but are just like the so. Baptists.

By: Toni

Toni — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:47:34 +0000

She’s absolutely right that the religious far right doesn’t speak for all Christians, by any stretch. We know this because the great majority of CA voters identify as Christian, and nearly half of CA voters voted FOR marriage equality. Statistically, there are far more Christians in favor of gay equality than there are gay people in existence. Clearly there is room in the Bible’s message for people to see that equal protection—-and more importantly equal human dignity—are part of Jesus’ plan.

By: Paul Opheim

Paul Opheim — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 04:15:45 +0000

Duh. The next question that begs an answer is what took the LGBT leaders so long to realize this?

By: ozzy

ozzy — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 21:51:08 +0000

No. Religion is important to those who think religion is important, but I rather have my state and church separate. Play the church game and you are bound to lose. I appreciate the support of religious groups but we are not going to win reading the bible and trying to correct their interpretation. We are going to win because we pay taxes and equality is a human right.

By: Jenny

Jenny — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:00:19 +0000

“If decent progressive clergy supports gay rights let them, but dont depend on them. They believe in a wrathful god.”

I’m sorry, but that’s not right.

The points you make in your post are a beautiful example of how the Christian extremists have co-opted all the public attention, and the public has begun to think the Christian extremists speak for all denominations.

A “wrathful god” is very Old Testament. Jesus of Nazareth was fighting against all the hateful nastiness and hypocrisy of the Old Testament. He was a radical liberal.

Christian extremists are adhering to the hateful nastiness of the Old Testament, they are going against everything Jesus stood for, and teaching/preaching the opposite of what Jesus said. These are the people Ghandi was talking about when he said, “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.”

Be careful not to paint all denominations with a Christian extremist brush. They are not the majority, they are only the loudest.

By: desert bat

desert bat — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 14:42:36 +0000

Religious extremists are a blight on this planet. Let those who adhere to a religion deal with your own extremists. You want to support equality of rights in this country? Then do it. Stop proselytizing those of us who are living our lives without these particular beliefs.

Thinking GLBTs all have to appreciate you and work with your communities because you are acting out of your own moral and ethical decisions is weird. A lot of us have long supported your right to freedom of religion, free assembly, and free speach and we have done it without thinking you would be gay or support gay rights because of it.

Cowboy/cowgirl up.

By: JIzin

JIzin — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:41:16 +0000

This article sounds like we should be going to church and paying tithe and the churches might change their attitude.

Fail. They are the ones who held back women suffrage, slavery and now equal marriage/gay rights.

If decent progressive clergy supports gay rights let them, but dont depend on them. They believe in a wrathful god.

I will trust in the progress of history in the western world of the past hundred yrs, not god thank you very much!

By: Jenny

Jenny — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 04:08:40 +0000

My church fought Prop 8 ferociously. Gay marriage is a civil right AND a religious right: if my church cannot perform full marriages according to our beliefs, then our right to religious freedom is being curtailed. If gay spouses cannot have full legal recognition, then their civil rights are being curtailed.

We do not all have to adopt religions or learn religious arguments to bring our side into the religious debate, we only have to support and encourage the liberal religious communities who are already fighting for us.

Let church educate church by supporting liberal churches as they reach out to moderate churches, and even Christian extremist churches.

Be careful not to assume the Christian extremists cannot change, or that all religious groups are the same. The BAPTIST church in my town has been performing gay marriages for 30 years.

My wife and I are one of the 18,000 California couples who are legally married, but in reality we are in legal limbo. Our church (and every other UU church in this country) stepped up to say they would recognize our marriage no matter what happens in the courts. This is the kind of church involvement that needs media attention, and isn’t getting it!