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Loading ...Vanasco: Do we need religion to win gay marriage?
06.04.2009 1:21pm EDT
We need to take back the religious and moral high ground.
That was the message today from a conference call organized by the Center for American Progress with Rev. Gene Robinson, the openly gay Episcopal Bishop of New Hampshire and Rev. Rebecca Voekel, Director of the Institute for Welcoming Resources and Faith Work of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, plus the authors of two new reports on gay marriage and religion.
What was most interesting is that the two reports - one analyzing an anti-gay marriage propositon in Michigan that passed, and one analyzing the Prop 8 campaign in California – come to the same conclusion: It is very important for the gay marriage movement to break the monopoly that the religious right has on religious and moral arguments around marriage.In the past, the battle has gone like this: The anti-gay right uses Biblical and religious language, plus the infrastructure of religious institutions, to make the case that equal marriage invalidates the sacredness of limited straight marriage.
Gay activists, on the other hand, have a secular message of civil and human rights, focusing on the benefits gays and lesbians get from marriage. We reach out to religious groups, sure, but only once the battle lines have been drawn, and then haphazardly.
This is why we lose, when we do.
The solution?
First, that we acknowledge that religious opposition requires a religious response. Those on the call said that it is very important that we call on GLBT’s who are religious to speak up both in their faith communities and in their queer communities in order to help find common ground.
We must cultivate and support progressive religious leaders who speak out in the media and in the pulpit on our issues. We must show the media and the public that the Religious Right does not speak for all people of faith, or even all Christians.
We must emphasize to legislators and the public that religious marriage and civil marriage are two different states that share the same noun. We must say, as Robinson does, that forbidding gay marriage is a case where religions are infringing on a state’s right to marry those they deem fit.
We must build “strong and authentic alliances” with religious leaders and convince them that gay rights is a matter of justice.
And we must not write off any religious group as unmovable – all denominations and religions have moderate voices.
Voekel said that there are 5 million members of Welcoming Congregations across the nation – congregations that have voted to affirm that they are open to GLBTs. Younger evangelicals are twice as likely as evangelicals over all to support gay marriage, said Winne Stachelberg, vice president for external affairs for the Center for American Progress. 60 percent of Catholics under 30 support gay marriage. 2/3 of mainline Protestant clergy support gay relationships.
New Hampshire showed us the way to a new strategy: confirm religious liberties in the same law that passes equal marriage. Robinson said that “this is a new dimension to the discussion and a very effective one.” He said that the religious liberties confirmed in the NH marriage law are redundant ones, already part of state law. But if re-affirming them is what leads to gay marriage passing, then so be it.
Robinson said, “We need to change the attitudes of religious people and clergy toward LGBT’s, but that’s a fight for another day. That’s a conversation that needs to take place in the denominations. We’re here to change the civil law.”
To believe they will continue to act “the way they always have” is kind of dump position. Religions change their doctrine and position with each new generation. The Bible might have condemned certain forms of male intercourse centuries ago – but it also condemns eating shrimp and polycotton blends. The church used to bind the hands of left handed kids to make them write right handed. The Church is, as is any religion, INFINITELY flexible. Most of the modern doctrines we come up with when thinking of Christianity weren’t even formed at the time of Jesus. The same can be said for Abraham and Judaism, and Muhammad and Islam. The curious thing about religion is its adaptability.
The whole concept of religions has become a violent farce. I want nothing, personally, to do with them. However, if I find it necessary to lie my way into their souls, I can be as hypocritical as they have been and remain. I usually suffer from tremendous guilt complex – not this time. To get religions out of the government and out of my life, I’ll say almost anything they want to hear and they won’t need to waterboard me.
If we need something to believe in jwsus, i will by nailed to the cross. I will die for anyone who is gay or bye. Jesus told me to take over him and i will. I asked him if i can for the Gays and he says yes. I am gay and i will do anything to die for somebody who is gay. And i will go to hell for them. Just come get me. Nail me to the cross. I have Jesus permission to be on the cross.
I am so very tired of religion forcing itself upon me. Now the only way I can get equal rights is use the very thing I wish to be free of. I am glad my generation is choosing at a higher rate than any other generation to let go of religion.
To the faithful: Let me be!
No I disagree with some of the other posts.
We do need to gain a significant amount of support amougnst religists people if we are to win marriage, reduce homophobia and provide gay kids with a safe home enviroment.
We need to argue that the sin that the bible refers to is not homosexuals expressing their natural sexual orientation but heterosexuals in dulging in same gender sex acts for their own grativication.
The point not mentioned here, is the fact that the religious right is not respecting the religious freedoms set forth in the constitution of this country. The state must realize that our constitution guarantees our right to practice our faith and the rights of those who practice no religious affiliations. To deny marriage to some because of religious opposition is also to deny their fundamental constitutional right to practice their faith of choice. This is not just an issue of equality in marriage but also equality in our ability to practice our beliefs without another church propogating state sanctions.
We already have strong religions on our side. We need to make sure we leverage that. We’re never going to win over the Pentecostals, Mormons, and Catholics. They’re too mired in their dogma. Let’s focus on the affirming religions we already have on our side and not pander to the others.
End of the day, full equality will not come from the people. It will come from the Courts. We shouldn’t fall into their traps.
The New Hampshire “religious protections” was pandering plain and simple. We already have a little thing called the Constitution that provides religions all the “protection” they need.
Roger: To speak about intellectual acumen in the middle of that comment leaves one breathless in irony.
We live in a representative democracy, also known as a republic. Get over it. Saying that people who are religious are idiots doesn’t do us any favors. The fact is God appears in our governments founding document. God appears on our money, and only recently have we gotten the 10 commandments off many of our government buildings. That is the world you live in, deal with it.
The Bible does say what it says about us. It will always say that. It also says we can keep slaves and beat our wives. Amazingly those things have somehow left common acceptability within our still dominantly Christian society. There are still a disturbing number of people who practice such things, but they are not legal, and the majority is still generally against them. This simple fact proves your entire argument false.
I am not Christian, but I believe strongly in a government by the people for the people. I believe in that not only because it sets some control on government abuses, but because if a government lays down a law the people disagree with strongly enough they will eventually revolt. It doesn’t matter if the law is just, if the people are not just then the injust will overthrow the government. When the government and the people are linked the way ours is then it forces you to deal with the cultural problems that are faced by a society that is injust while those who see the injustice work to correct the law.
Look at the revolutions that have happened throughout history. For every one that has toppled a bad government and replaced it with a better one there are 5 that have toppled a bad government and replaced it with a worse one and 5 that have toppled an eh government and replaced it with a bad one.
Law cannot exist in a vacuum. Society cannot exist in a vacuum. If there is rot from the inside you must cure the whole disease causing the rot, or it continues to fester.
You insult people’s faith and you’re not going to get them on your side now matter how compelling you may think your “story” is. We absolutely cannot win this fight without the help of friendly religious groups.
Good luck with heresy strategy.
Simply ignoring (or refusing to engage) on the religious issue is self-defeating…as we’ve seen time and time again. Put people in a private ballot box and they’ll vote their conscience and their morals every time regardless of what they tell pollsters.
Here in VT we couldn’t have won marriage equality without the support of our religious communities. They were essential to the cause. Hundreds came out publicly in support of us.
Religion is the only basis people have for objecting to us getting married. They might dress it up as “every child needs a mom and a dad”, but what they’re really thinking is “it’s an abomination”. We simply have to address it.
We need to retain the moral high ground in order to defeat DOMA, and we can’t do that if we’re seen as either immoral or amoral. We have to engage.
We shouldn’t be forced to acknowledge religious arguments on a political issue. What the f*ck ever happened to separation of church and state in this country? If some religious communities want to support us, so much the better, but seriously, we’ve been playing defensively for too long. WE have done nothing wrong, and the extreme right wing christian fundamentalists have BROKEN THE LAW. We shouldn’t be pandering to people like that. People have the right to believe whatever they want to in this country, and the fact that some of us don’t believe the same way they do should NOT automatically invalidate any arguments we have against them, especially in a forum where religious arguments aren’t even allowed.
i don’t why ones has to do with the other and you are also saying that we all practice a religion. I’m on the side of that the is a rights issue that should have no baring on religion. religion has the right to have there laws and what is and is not right in religion. But the law says we are al equal so much so that your religion has the right to practice and think what is want but can not mix with the law. that little thing called separation of church and state. By buying in to what the story says we are ignoring the fact that it needs to be and should be separate.
Reaching out the the religious is not for me. You see, I am one of those homos that doesn’t believe in the tooth fairy, I mean “god.” I go for the secular approach. I don’t care if you wear magic underwear or believe in talking snakes, it has NOTHING to do with me and I’ll make sure YOU KNOW IT!
No. To placate the stupid with an assent to their religion is plain wrong. And we LGBT will lose.
Make no mistake; Their Bible says what it says about us. They will never abandon that position.
The only way to win and keep marriage equality is to force the hand of the secular federal supreme court to either declare us fully equal under the federal constitution, or conclude that we are second class citizens – seperate and unequal – which they cannot.
Placating religious idiots by becoming them denigrates the intellectual acumen we gays are famous for.
Steer well-clear of ANY gay leader who thinks we need to become the enemy to beat the enemy.
They started this war against us and they would LOVE it if we all ended up praying to their Hebbie-Jeebus.