Gays are upset with blacks and Hispanics because so many liberal whites (gay and straight) have fought to help minorities and to be turned upon is upsetting, hurtful and mind-boggling. Al Sharpton himself has stated that blacks voting against any group trying to obtain their civil rights is just plain stupid. Ditto others like Toni Morrison, Coretta Scott King, MLK, Maya Angelou, Oprah Winfrey and many other people of color.

Liberals are not racist – otherwise we would not be liberals. Angelo is one of many who is working to bait blacks into thinking he is cool with them when really he would love to strip them of their rights or worse.

Ana is an uneducated, immature person clearly brain washed and uninterested in learning anything. I feel little sympathy for her as she walks into the lion’s den with her eyes shut.

The only way things will EVER change is if we make them change. Get out of the stupid bars and silly get ups and start being PEOPLE as opposed to Gay people. Show solidarity, boycott those who try to hurt us, and stop being indifferent to the whole situation because it may not apply directly to our lives.

Religion is only part of the picture here. Raw numbers alone do not govern the social effect of religion, which is still largely a male-dominated affair in this country. Even though church attendance by women exceeds that of men in virtually every Christian denomination, nearly all of them are run by men. Very conservative ones in particular tend to be outright hostile to female authority.

Macho culture however is a separate sociological problem, and you’re right that it is beginning to effect white men just as heavily as it has historically affected blacks and Latinos.

The black community however serves as a sort of canary in a coal mine here. Black women college graduates vastly outnumber black male ones. The mythology of how “society” keeps them down fuels a strong desire to assert masculinity in various ways, especially in the face of the growing success and independence of black women.

It is not a coincidence that Barack Obama is half-African, as opposed to “African-American” and raised by a white family. A lot of black men (no women that I knew) complained that he rarely talks much about slavery or the civil rights movement. That’s because he doesn’t define himself in those terms. His ancestors weren’t slaves and he doesn’t hold to that as a rationalization for anything. His high ambitions and intellectual accomplishments were fueled by entirely personal goals. Obama consciously rejected the notion that there were, or should be, limits for him based on his skin color and now he sits in the Oval Office.

Like so many black female business executives I have known he showed very little interest in “The Struggle”. Rather than looking for excuses as to why “The Man” wouldn’t let him succeed he simply went off and succeeded. By the same token, he was secure enough in his masculinity to marry a similarly intelligent and successful woman without fear of his manhood being compromised by her strength.

Yes, this problem is also spreading in white culture, as our economy becomes more intellectually-driven as opposed to physically-driven and men have to compete with women on a level playing field. This insecurity is increasing male homophobia of course. It’s ironic considering that the Founding Fathers were a bunch of guys wearing lace and powdered wigs, whose idea of a good time was reading and discussing intellectual topics. Today’s “manly man” would deride George Washington as “gay”.

But it’s not a coincidence that the bulk of black hostility towards homosexuality is fueled by the assertion that it causes men to lose their manliness, or in the case of lesbians causes them to stop placing themselves at the disposal of men.

And I love we can have this debate.

Daniel: Are you a homophobe if you use the word queer or dyke or fag in with members of the community? Are you a homophobe when you start assuming someone is gay until you slept with him or he tells you or he announces it? We in the gay community continue to discriminate against ourselves all the time:
Troll
Twink.
Bear
Chub
Queen
Faggot
And many many more

Your description of Black men is the same. Furthermore, the pity party you attribute to Black men you just gave.

Racism is a real factor. And just like we use the rainbow as our flag to indicate we have gays from every part of the human spectrum, we then must accept that racism is part our culture as well. The Queer community is a microcosm of the general community.

Lastly, I don’t care if the other groups understand us. I just want them to get out of our way. Respect us even if they don’t want to be near us.

Based on my experience and encounters (and I am “black,” whatever that means) that machoism is a little bit of a front. A higher percentage of black women go to church than black men (I think this is true of women of any race, by the way).

Also remember that some the trends that you cite among black men have also become more prevelant in other ethnic groups, including “white.”

The fact that for a young gay kid, college is often the way out of an oppressive home. There is more of an incentive for gay kids of all colors to go to college for reasons other than to get an education, they need to get the hell outta the house. But the disparity in income can make the college route more difficult for a black kid.

And, particularly for a young black man, wanting to and having the desire to succeed academically is seen as being effeminate and non-macho by his peers (as opposed to simply being seen as nerdy and geeky). So homophobia in the black community (and this is based on my experiences, folks) can be felt even by straight teenagers.

You love using broad strokes, don’t ya?!

Have a good night.

Sincerely,

James

You are on the money, “black homophobia” is not simply anti-gay, it’s anti-white.

And what disturbs me is that we are letting it happen. So, my friend, I agree to disagree. I just wish we had a Harvey Milk to lead us now. A Martin Luther King for us. Somebody, who may not always agree with, but at least motivated us to do something.

====

Again, we have more in common than this conversation and the conversation in general than “they” would have us believe.

We’re on the same page for end result but bringing two different sets of experiences to the table.

My point through it all, even when I’ve been angry and posted nasty responses to folks here, is in order to have any real progress outside of the Gay community, we need to first understand, listen to, and respect the differences of opinion within it.

Otherwise, we run the risk of becomming the very thing we fight.

That said, it’s often hard to feel sympathy towards black men. Given that I and lot of others get a dose of double-bigotry in the form of anti-white racism AND homophobia it can be very hard to relate to their issues. Also, in the corporate world we see a lot more successful black women than we do black men. This often leads me to wonder if societal racism is as big a problem for black men as their own obsessive macho culture is.

Ironically, we get lectured for our “victim culture” while a lot of black men blame their lack of success in society on remnants of slavery or racism. This is something I have never heard from the mouths of black female managers or executives I have worked with.

So to me, the issue is as much about the macho culture that black men often idealize, which includes homophobia as part of efforts to prove manliness. Of course it also feeds other social problems as well. Hence I think there is a large division between the communities here.