Comments on: Riding for equality

By: Beth

Beth — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:26:54 +0000

So, what do we make of religious universities who change their policies that are, well, bigoted? Policies that use the Bible to support their bigotry? Because schools have changed their policies.
I believe it was either Regent or Liberty or maybe Bob Jones University who did not allow African American students and Caucasian students to date each other until something like 2000! Maybe it was even more recent than that.
Do we support their right to imply, by their policies, that to date someone of another race is “wrong” for some strange reason?
Do I support a religious university to imply, by their policies, that some people, because of their sexual orientation, are sinful people, committing sin similar to any other sin in the BIble like adultery or drunkenness or whatever else God given sexual interest is compared to?
Okay, I’ll give in to censoredagain and say to let religious schools kick out gay students, but I’m having trouble with it.
I wish I could be more, um, in the mood to tolerate, but the entire community faces an emotional and, sometimes, physical toll because of the religious based bigotry that goes unquestioned and is allowed free reign to fester.
So, we are supposed to tolerate ideas that diminish us?
The gayness of any of us does not diminish anyone’s right to practice their own religion. It does not cause harm.
I admit to struggling, and I wish I could break through and find a way that I could feel good about tolerating people who do not understand how their “sacred religious beliefs” cause daily damage to a lot of people, especially youth.

By: censoredagain

censoredagain — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:58:18 +0000

Beth your thoughts are alarming! We do not deserve any rights if we do not support the rights of others; that includes religious thought and practice. If a private religious institution so chooses to forbid and expel an open non-heterosexual individual then we should support that right but yet condemn the action. The U.S. constitution gives everyone the right to the freedom of association and freedom of association includes the freedom to exclude others. We do not have to like what others do with their freedom but we should support their right to be free.

Your post is alarming because it seems to advocate subtracting that freedom from those religious institutions. Keep in mind that the act of imposing one community’s belief system onto another community in and of its self is showing intolerance. Tolerance does not mean you have to like something you just tolerate it. Because many religious communities are intolerant of non-heterosexual sexual activities or the state of being non-heterosexual does not justify our community to be intolerant of said religious communities.

We too have the freedom of association, so for those in the non-heterosexual community that choose to attend a religious institution; let them choose one that is welcoming to all, to include members of the non-heterosexual community.

By: Beth

Beth — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:21:31 +0000

Not a whole lot of empathy going on there, Natas.
I watched the documentary, and I recommend you watch it, too.
GLBTs are allowed to hold and practice religious beliefs; they should be allowed to attend religious schools without fear of being expelled. The comments you are making sound great if you’re in your 30s or 40s and looking back on life, but aren’t helpful for 18 year olds who are closeted and whose parents are their ticket to a university education.
Plus, there are a lot of these kids who only have a sick, twisted image in their head of what GLBTs look like. For some, this is the first time they’ve seen someone gay, let alone speak to someone who is openly gay.
There’s a lot of value to opening a dialogue. Religious people are not lost causes, especially young religious people.
The message these young people are bringing is not one of condemnation, hatred, or “you’re going to hell” like the example you give of preachers coming into gay bars, so I don’t think it’s an appropriate comparison. Plus, I wouldn’t want the preachers coming into gay bars charged with a hate crime UNLESS THEY COMMITTED A CRIME. None of us should.
I’m assigning Natas some extra homework and study on civil rights and how laws get changed. It’s called pressure, baby.
Now, go do your homework.

By: Natas

Natas — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:18:10 +0000

Bud, yes the law is the law. Those sodomy laws did not get changed by breaking them. It came through legislation and education. Those Private Univercity’s do have every right to teach what they want. Those students that go there pay for it. It is their choice to be there. Again I must remind you that I dont like these places anymore than you do; but they have the right to teach their beliefs just as we have a right to ours. I feel no pity for any gay student that goes to those schools, it was a choice they made. If they dont like it then move. Dont give me some anger filled excuse that they shouldnt have to. There are many other schools these young people can attend to get the same kind of education (usually cheaper). Basicly your right the schools do preach something we as a community dislike, but its their right to do so. Reading your comments from every one, you guys tend to sound just like them spewing the same kind of virulence they do to us. We should be better than that, take the higher ground.

By: Bob from Arlington, VA

Bob from Arlington, VA — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:08:42 +0000

Bud, you’re absolutely right.

Most of these universities have one great thing in common: isolation.

I don’t think that having meetings off campus would have the impact of being on campus, because a lot of students still wouldn’t go. The biggest way of dealing with isolation is bringing exposure. Exposure to gays. Exposure to the fact that other than in the bedroom, gays are NO DIFFERENT than the rest of society.

Btw, I watched the premiere of “Equality U” and I commend them for gaining allies in the most unlikely of places.

By: Justin

Justin — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:42:49 +0000

I support the Equality Riders. Not only is it good because the institutions are teaching homophobia, but for another reason as well. There are GLBT students at these campuses and they are suffering. They are at these schools for many reasons such as the parents will only send them to one of these schools, they feel a conservative religious school will straiten them out because of their upbringing and see they won’t change when they get there, they don’t realize or have not come out to themselves as gay, etc. People are suffering very badly and it is important this discussion be taken to these campuses. As a Christian it saddens me that when it comes to GLBT issues these schools are filled with untruth.

By: Bud Burgoon-Clark

Bud Burgoon-Clark — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 15:41:57 +0000

The law is the law?

Laws don’t get changed by breaking them?

Tell that to the Freedom Riders and all those who were brutalized in the lunch-counter sit-ins.

According to that way of thinking, it was *OK* for Southern states to outlaw sodomy, with a jail sentence of 20 years to life if you were “caught.”

These schools are no different from the religious schools of the radical Islamic world. They are hotbeds of hate, prejudice, and mis-information, and are recruiting grounds for foot-soldiers in the Culture Wars.

They have NO RIGHT to be shielded or isolated from the TRUTH. That violates the definition of a university, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson and the Southern Baptist Church notwithstanding.

Bud Burgoon-Clark
San Diego CA USA

By: Chad

Chad — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 15:04:36 +0000

For most days out of the year on my college campus, there is a Christian preacher (not sure what denomination) who would stand in the grove and shout out his message about God and Jesus. He stood in an area of high traffic and spoke in a voice that anyone in the vicinity could hear. He did this only between classes, though, at the request of the university so as to not disrupt the learning environment. During classes, he would walk around common areas and ask if he could speak with people about God. If they said no, he would simply walk away.

Now, I never stopped even once to listen to this guy preach, nor did I ever speak with him. Most people on campus just ignore him and laugh about it later. But part of me respects what he does, because he does it respectfully.

So if these Equality Riders want to spread their message in a peaceful, law-abiding way, then I say let them do so. However, I will certainly agree that breaking the law should be no part of this quest. If they are asked to leave – or if they were never invited – then they need to respect the wishes of those in charge. I do commend their efforts, though, to spread the message of gay equality. We need more people willing to put in that kind of leg-work.

By: Randy

Randy — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 07:51:53 +0000

It’s hard to believe some of the comments. The law is the law? Good grief, it used to be a felony for us to have sex in our own homes. Did you stop? I’m not for general lawlessness, but I am all for peaceful disobedience when it gets a point across. These places manufacture the human tools (in all senses of that word) they will use to try to limit and ultimately remove our rights. So I think we do need to take the discussion to their turf. That said, I have NOT seen the documentary, but I look forward to it.

By: Natas

Natas — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:20:44 +0000

Aiden, yes I read the story…they were invited by who? The administration? No..that is where they over stepped their bounds. Like I said I dont agree with their institutions, but it is wrong to violate their rules. They can talk with the ones who invited them off campus, thats where free speach happens…clearly it isnt on campus. I think the riders are breaking the law to draw attention to themselves. Tresspassing is against the law. End of subject. If they were meeting someplace else and encouraging debate we would not be disscussing this. The law is the law, it does not get changed by breaking it, it gets changed in the court system and by legislation.