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Loading ...Prop 8: What went wrong
GLBT Americans awoke Nov. 5 to the news they had snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
While right-wing candidates and causes were largely voted down at ballot boxes the day before, state proposals to constitutionally ban same-sex marriage in California, Florida and Arizona nonetheless prevailed, as did a law prohibiting gays and lesbians from adopting or serving as foster parents in Arkansas.
Of those defeats, none stung worse than Proposition 8.
Approved by 52 percent of California voters, Proposition 8 overrode a May ruling by the state’s supreme court legalizing same-sex marriage. In addition to banning gay and lesbian couples in the state from future marriages, the ballot initiative left about18,000 existing same-sex California marriages in legal limbo.
What went wrong?
Proposition 8 seemed to have more going against it than for it. California voters are among the nation’s most liberal, and they turned out on Nov. 4 to support Democrat Barack Obama by a whopping margin of 61-37 percent.
Popular Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger campaigned against Proposition 8.
And while same-sex marriage supporters are often outspent in ballot fights, the No on 8 campaign amassed a war chest of $38 million. That was not only the most money ever raised to defeat such a measure, but it was as much as—or more than—the amount raised by gay opponents on the Christian right.
Next: What the polls said
I live in a bubble: here in liberal Marin County Prop 8 lost by the widest margin outside of S.F. Outside of the Bay Area the people are very different. Education levels plummet and religion, the opium of Americans, reigns supreme. Having “faith” is just great because you don’t have to think for yourself and merely have to follow orders. If Americans weren’t religious they’d be out-and-out Nazis, and if you don’t believe it, take a drive (now that gas is affordable again) to Bakersfield. Listen to the madness that poses for rational debate on the radio: these idiots are somehow living in the 17th century with one difference: technology. How do we protect ourselves and obtain rights in such a “society”? I suggest not only boycotting our enemies but patronizing our friends (Human Rights Campaign has lists of gay-friendly businesses). And some well-placed bribes wouldn’t hurt either because the “government” is totally corrupt.
This was a good, reasonable explanation. Thanks.
To parent? I assume your a parent. I asked my mother when I was twelve yrs. old, if she knew death existed before I was born. She said what are you talking about now, I had too many questions too many times. I asked again, did you know that people died before I was born, her answer was of course I knew people died before you were born. I stated then your guilty of premeditated murder.
I said if you knew people died, then you knew I would have to die, it’s a biological fact, in being a parent you kill your child
Having a child is the ultimate selfish act, could you ever tell your child the truth, I brought you here because I needed you, that your life was unfulfilled, until you had someone to use to make your own life more important. Did you tell your child , you have subjected them to all the pain of physical and emotional suffering, and in the end given them the gift of death, without choice.
Buddhists believe to be born is to suffer till you die. And I’m sorry to say you are the cause of much added suffering.
A child is not the only thing parents produce, sadly, far to many parents, a man and a women breed hate, lies, intolerance and the holocaust of the spirit, and you being the parent that you are, unfortunately, have bred them all.
I’ve actually been encompassing a whole wide range of thoughts in wake of this whole detestable PROP 8 balderdash.
Does nobody in the far religious right think for themselves anymore? I find myself posing that question more frequently than ever these days, mostly because I’ve read so much pathetic propaganda scribed by folks old enough to know far better.
That old adage, “live and let live,” apparently no longer bears any credence; at least not to those who believe my life should somehow mirror theirs. But, since it doesn’t, I and the vast innumerable others like me are swiftly judged as inferior. To be a homosexual, after all, is the ultimate abominable sin. God “hates” me. I am ultimately no better than a predatory sex-fiend, who lives only to spread disease and corrupt our nation’s children. I deserve second-class citizenship and will, according to those who laughably presume to know me and my relationship with the Lord, burn in eternal hell-fire. If our God really is one of love, as we so often hear, why does society use his name to spread so much unnecessary ignorance and vile hatred? “I don’t hate you,” touts John Q. Public. “I just hate your sin.”
Are common people really that dense?
These folks place so much stock in the Bible, a tome compiled by flesh and blood men whose bones have long gone to dust, and very foolishly attempt to pass off the writings within that text as “God’s law.” So, where exactly does that leave the Ten Commandments? What is there to say about those who would rather embrace a book authored by mortal men instead of allowing the Ten Commandments, believed throughout history to represent God’s true law, to be posted outside our nation’s courthouses and public libraries? I cannot honestly ever recall spotting one negative reference to homosexuality anywhere within our Lord’s ten mandates. He never once professed, “Thou shalt not be gay.” That false edict is strictly of man’s own self-righteous design and has not the single slightest thing to do with how God views me as an individual. But I would have to be totally insane to believe I could ever convince those who vehemently insist otherwise of such obvious common sense. I find it shrewdly ironic that all the strangers who would casually condemn me in God’s name are also the ones who have already murdered, stolen, committed adultery, and staged false witness against their neighbors.
These are grown men and women who, time and again, have maintained that I deliberately chose to engage myself in a homosexual existence. I can and evidently should pursue the path of change to become more equal to my heterosexual counterparts, this according to Exodus International, Love Won Out, and several other like-minded “Ex-Gay” conversion groups. These organizations often tend to drive me into hysterical fits of laughter, primarily due to the fact that a great many still in practice have long been scientifically discredited. Attraction is what it is. You can’t change who you are attracted to any more than you can hop in a time machine and change the past. Perhaps, if I and several gay friends opened an “Ex-Straight” ministry, the brainwashed right would finally begin to see their concept of change for the embarrassingly asinine waste of time it has always been.
The stubbornness of ignorance, however, is not so easily educated. Take what’s happened in California, for instance. The California Supreme Court, as we all remember, legalized same-sex marriage earlier this year. It was signed into law. On November 4th, however, thanks to a discriminatory and altogether evil piece of unnecessary legislation known as Proposition 8, common voters have now overturned that landmark ruling and have stripped their fellow citizens of their rights. This leaves 18,000 couples, all 36,000 people who married between June and November, wondering if their vows will be invalidated. I clearly cannot accept this, as a gay man, because it so totally flies in the face of everything this great nation allegedly represents. Prop 8 only became a political juggernaut because James Dobson, from Focus on the Family, joined other like-minded bible-thumping fear-mongers across the country and threw millions of dollars at it. They maliciously lied to anybody gullable enough to give them a platform about how homosexuality was “destroying the fabric of moral society.” It’s plain to see that Dobson, along with any others who endorse this glorified bigotry would rather carry their convictions to the grave before ever entertaining my point of view. It’s their way or no way at all.
I’ve also read statements from certain parents over the last year who claim they will never teach their children to accept or tolerate the “deviant homosexual lifestyle.” Those of that mindset should try voicing their opinion to Lawrence King’s grieving mother and father. King, as many will recall, was a fifteen year old Oxnard junior high student who took two bullets through the back of his head from a classmate last February simply because he self-identified as gay. Kids killing kids, imagine that! Does anybody ever wonder where they get the inspiration? Prejudice is a behavioral quirk that no child is ever born with. A responsible parent plays a major role in determining the potential social conduct of their sons and daughters. Teach a child to hate, and he will more than likely go through life with a chip on his shoulder. Instilling him with love, however, will open his mind and allow him to appreciate the wonderful diversity that makes life so exceptionally unique and special. Why, for some people, is this picture postcard ideal so incredibly difficult to grasp?
I harbor just as much frustration for those who, while unmercifully picking apart my life as a gay man, dare to label sexual orientation as a “bedroom topic.” If that actually is what human sexuality all boils down to, then I never want to see another straight couple holding hands, exchanging hugs, or kissing anywhere in public again! It is quite hypocritical for one to declare that I am somehow “shoving” my life down society’s throat when, by no small coincidence, it has been the millions of gay people living throughout the world who have had the “straight agenda” thrown in their faces from day one!
This may all seem like some sort of mad rant on my part. But, in all honesty, I’m upset. And, in wake of all that’s happened to the gay community just within the last couple of weeks, I think I have every right to be. This petty nonsense has persisted long enough!
Please bear with me as I attempt to address it…
I can’t disagree with you, Callan Mitchell, but setting everyone else back might be a bit selfish… I’m not a supporter of gay marriage, either, but I wouldn’t vote against it. It would be like voting against interracial marriage because I wasn’t in one… or against a woman’s right to choose because I wouldn’t have an abortion. Sometimes, solidarity is necessary.
TPq
Oh good argument to all! Unfortunately the voters have spoken, not once but twice! As Americans each person can make any choice they want as long as it doesn’t hurt any fellow Americans. Committing hate crimes against Churches and Christians doesn’t help the cause! We all can have a difference in opinions . But must not act out in such hateful , illegal behaviors! This is America, land of the free, freedom to be what ever religion of our personal choosing. Free to boycott Businesses and States! Free to blog until we are tired of blogging! But the majority wants marriage to be one man and one woman! Period! We are free to live any life styles we choose, but will have to accept the consequences’ . And marriage is one of them. If marriage was made legal for same sex couples, then what next? It’s a big can of worms! I am sorry that the majority of the people hurt the feelings of a certain group of minority’s, Surely all this hate isn’t going to change this world. Sorry for all the disappointment.
Happy Jack, the majority of voters DOES NOT have the right to take away the civil rights of minorities.
P.S. [edited]
Just quit throwing money at various activist organizations. Get out there and protest, confront, raise consciousness yourselves. Don’t pay others to do the work of justice that you must do yourselves. The recent nation-wide protest is an excellent example of what GLBT folks and their allies need to do. I’ve been very underwhelmed by HRC and other GLBT organizations. “Just send money…afterall the Mormons are sending money.” Also, maybe white GLBT folks could get out and meet/socialize with some straight black folks so they realize what their pastors tell them aint necessarily so (about GLBT’s). We need to change peoples minds and hearts, not throw money at discrimination.
Peace and Courage in these disappointing times.
Keeping on the theme of raising the level of consciousness, where has Obama been or to be more precise said about the outcome of this and the protest that have happened ever since. I know that one of reasons his followers gave for his lack of involvement in our fight prior to the vote of the proposition was how much it could affect his chances of being elected if he took a strong stand against discrimination against us, but now what’s the excuse? And don’t tell me he’s not yet in office when he can find time to be on ESPN.
Happy Jack said:
“This is America, land of the free, freedom to be what ever religion of our personal choosing”
IT’S.NOT.ABOUT.RELIGION. Get it straight, if I may employ the phrase.
What is at issue is CIVIL marriage.
No church/synagogue/mosque/sweat lodge that is opposed to same-sex marriage will be required to perform one.
The only institution that would NOT be able to refuse to perform a SSM is the city hall.
Right now, do Orthodox Jews have any problem denying marriage to Jewish-Gentile couples? Are Catholics challenged legally for denying marriage to priests and nuns? In either case, does anything prevent a dissenting member of the religion from getting a civil marriage?
No. No. and No.
It’s the same thing with civil SSM, EXCEPT that the answers are now No. No. and YES.
Happy Jack, who would be happy at the oppression of anyone?
I bet the KKK would, we know Hitler was, how about the southern plantation owners, or maybe Osama Bin Ladin, I know the religious right believes they have the true power to rule others and the world, or is it the Muslims?
Once twice a thousand times, the tyranny of the majority over any minority is just that tyranny!
Abraham Lincoln stated, those who would deny equality for others, deserve it not for themselves.
It doesn’t surprise me that bigots such as yourself, who have never had to fight for their equality, will never have any compassion for anyone.
How can any decent compassionate human being, be happy, at their fellow human beings suffering, how and why does that makes you happy Jack?
There are several places that people should have expected and got the money to fight and that was the Mormons. Hire Lawyers DAMN IT! Keep the mormons out of politics ( and for that matter any other religious types). The lawyers should have taken the religious types to court to keep them from funding any anti gay take.
Its simple why it failed: Minorities whether they be Black or Hispanic the common view holds that homosexuality is a white phenomena! Whites are gay, fags, etc. This conclusion is made by WHO often protests and is seen debating for “gay issues” if you are a minority you don’t see brown, black or what have you. The movement failed because of this. Lack of understanding nor empathy to gays because they are not us… Religion aside, this is what caused gays to lose the right to marry in California!
I agree with others here who say that blaming Prop 8 win on community complacency when $38 million was raised is pure BS.
Lack of targeted messaging is a more reasonable explanation. Did we have Spanish language radio spots? Did we have full page ads in Asian publications? The Mormons did.
I would point to the county results posted on the LATimes site:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-2008election-california-results,0,1293859.htmlstory?view=8&tab=0&fnum=8
And note that Prop 8 won in some of the most urban counties with the largest gay populations. It won in Los Angeles and San Diego Counties. In white, professional and well educated Orange County it won 57% to 42%. These counties, geographically speaking, are relatively small with equally small media markets. The voter rolls in LA alone are so big – nearly 3 million voted – a 5% difference in LA County alone could have turned the vote for the state.
And blaming ethnic voters doesn’t stand up. P8 lost in Contra Costa County by 44% to 55%. That’s Contra Costa with its huge African American votes – we’re talking Oakland and Richmond. You can’t say South Central brought down all of LA County.
According to that same CNN exit poll 27% of gay voters cast their ballots for McCain. How many gays voted FOR P8? How many gays didn’t vote at all? Who do you blame now?
Why it passed was obvious from the day after the election. The big African-American turnout for Obama put it over the top. If anyone is going to make inroads in this it has to be (1) black gay men who need to come out of the closet and be visible in their churches and community and (2) the President-elect who can be a great leader on the issue IF he chooses to be.