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	<title>Comments on: Marie Osmond: I support gay rights</title>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/living/marie-osmond-i-support-gay-rights/comment-page-2/#comment-58186</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 23:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=7170#comment-58186</guid>
		<description>Gay marriage is coming, it is just going to take some time.  I am a christian but I don&#039;t think that when it comes to civil rights that my beliefs should come into play. Therefore, I voted against a similar Prop 8 in my state.  I also don&#039;t think name calling and labeling people who, at this time, oppose gay marriage helps the gay community in their effort to obtain their civil rights.

This issue is now on the Osmonds&#039; doorstep and they are going to have to come to terms with it.  Having said that, I have never seen Donny issue any statement, one way or the other, on how he feels about gay marriage.  (I&#039;m not so sure Marie has clearly stated her position either).  Donny &quot;statement&quot; regarding gay marriage was in answer to a fans question and has been on his website since 2003, he did not issue a statement on Prop 8. It only became an issue when gay bloggers went looking for a famous mormon to be a scapegoat after the passing of Prop 8.  I&#039;ve never read his beliefs info on his website and don&#039;t plan to, I&#039;m not interested in Mormonism.  However, Donny doesn&#039;t live in CA, vote in CA, is not listed on any donor list for Prop. 8 and I never heard him endorse it.  He has been bashed up one side and down the other on this issue and I feel that to be unfair.  Both Donny and Marie are in a difficult position being raised in a Mormon household and being famous.  It is a no-win situation for them both.  They will gain/lose fans either way.    Personally, I&#039;m not sure why anyone cares how celebrities feel on any political issue, I don&#039;t vote based on anything any celebrity says.

Good for Marie for standing up for her daughter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gay marriage is coming, it is just going to take some time.  I am a christian but I don&#8217;t think that when it comes to civil rights that my beliefs should come into play. Therefore, I voted against a similar Prop 8 in my state.  I also don&#8217;t think name calling and labeling people who, at this time, oppose gay marriage helps the gay community in their effort to obtain their civil rights.</p>
<p>This issue is now on the Osmonds&#8217; doorstep and they are going to have to come to terms with it.  Having said that, I have never seen Donny issue any statement, one way or the other, on how he feels about gay marriage.  (I&#8217;m not so sure Marie has clearly stated her position either).  Donny &#8220;statement&#8221; regarding gay marriage was in answer to a fans question and has been on his website since 2003, he did not issue a statement on Prop 8. It only became an issue when gay bloggers went looking for a famous mormon to be a scapegoat after the passing of Prop 8.  I&#8217;ve never read his beliefs info on his website and don&#8217;t plan to, I&#8217;m not interested in Mormonism.  However, Donny doesn&#8217;t live in CA, vote in CA, is not listed on any donor list for Prop. 8 and I never heard him endorse it.  He has been bashed up one side and down the other on this issue and I feel that to be unfair.  Both Donny and Marie are in a difficult position being raised in a Mormon household and being famous.  It is a no-win situation for them both.  They will gain/lose fans either way.    Personally, I&#8217;m not sure why anyone cares how celebrities feel on any political issue, I don&#8217;t vote based on anything any celebrity says.</p>
<p>Good for Marie for standing up for her daughter.</p>
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		<title>By: christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/living/marie-osmond-i-support-gay-rights/comment-page-2/#comment-56077</link>
		<dc:creator>christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 13:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=7170#comment-56077</guid>
		<description>Fascinating read and interview.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating read and interview.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/living/marie-osmond-i-support-gay-rights/comment-page-2/#comment-55920</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 18:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=7170#comment-55920</guid>
		<description>Regardless of the motivation behind it, the fact is that when push came to shove, Marie had the inner strength to go against The Church&#039;s published doctrine on the issue. As someone who grew up as a Mormon, a very top-down, carefully managed corporation where even issues such as their very racist past have been quietly swept under the rug, never to be spoken of again, I can tell you that to speak out like that and endure the &quot;church foyer&quot; peer pressure and social backlash is not something to be taken lightly.

Yes, it would have been nice if she&#039;d taken this position before her daughter came out, but as with millions of other parents and individuals that don&#039;t think they know anyone that&#039;s gay, and all they have to go on is the packaged definition &quot;the homosexual lifestyle&quot; as presented by the anti-gay forces, as a bunch of disease-ridden perverts running around trying to recruit their kids and destroy all that&#039;s good and decent in the world, the fact is that it often takes a close friend or family member to come out to them to realize that we&#039;re really no different than they are, with the same hopes, dreams, and values that they cherish.

At this point in the game, I think we can use all the friends and allies that we can muster. Particularly from within the more conservative churches. Attacking her for not speaking out earlier is counterproductive and would only serve to make others feel less inclined to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regardless of the motivation behind it, the fact is that when push came to shove, Marie had the inner strength to go against The Church&#8217;s published doctrine on the issue. As someone who grew up as a Mormon, a very top-down, carefully managed corporation where even issues such as their very racist past have been quietly swept under the rug, never to be spoken of again, I can tell you that to speak out like that and endure the &#8220;church foyer&#8221; peer pressure and social backlash is not something to be taken lightly.</p>
<p>Yes, it would have been nice if she&#8217;d taken this position before her daughter came out, but as with millions of other parents and individuals that don&#8217;t think they know anyone that&#8217;s gay, and all they have to go on is the packaged definition &#8220;the homosexual lifestyle&#8221; as presented by the anti-gay forces, as a bunch of disease-ridden perverts running around trying to recruit their kids and destroy all that&#8217;s good and decent in the world, the fact is that it often takes a close friend or family member to come out to them to realize that we&#8217;re really no different than they are, with the same hopes, dreams, and values that they cherish.</p>
<p>At this point in the game, I think we can use all the friends and allies that we can muster. Particularly from within the more conservative churches. Attacking her for not speaking out earlier is counterproductive and would only serve to make others feel less inclined to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: James M. Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/living/marie-osmond-i-support-gay-rights/comment-page-2/#comment-55758</link>
		<dc:creator>James M. Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 23:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=7170#comment-55758</guid>
		<description>Does this mean that Ms. Osmond will be excommunicated from the C.L.D.S.?  For decades, they refused membership to African-Americans, whom they regarded as sub-human.  Now, they give the boot to anyone who dares proclaim they&#039;re openly gay.  This is a sign of progress because Marie was indoctrinated with the silly dogma as a child, but it looks like the chickens have come home to roost, so she&#039;s had a change of heart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does this mean that Ms. Osmond will be excommunicated from the C.L.D.S.?  For decades, they refused membership to African-Americans, whom they regarded as sub-human.  Now, they give the boot to anyone who dares proclaim they&#8217;re openly gay.  This is a sign of progress because Marie was indoctrinated with the silly dogma as a child, but it looks like the chickens have come home to roost, so she&#8217;s had a change of heart.</p>
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		<title>By: Dermot</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/living/marie-osmond-i-support-gay-rights/comment-page-2/#comment-55701</link>
		<dc:creator>Dermot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 19:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=7170#comment-55701</guid>
		<description>In this issue, it can get very very complicated in Mormon communities, and there is a great deal of cultural baggage around this.  And it&#039;s not just about gay issues, but lots of things.  In traditional Mormon culture, there is a strong (and historically easily explained) persecution complex, where Mormondom has lived during times of great angst of being attacked or invaded by people who hate them.  At the same time, they desperately want to be recognized as Christians by the mainstream orthodox establishments, so there is great effort to be seen as ecumenical and united with the surrounding Christian world.  Unfortunately, this has left so much of Mormon culture vulnerable to being poisoned by some of the worst excesses of American fundamentalist evangelical culture.  Since Mormons tend to try harder than just about anyone else to fit in in a conservative religious environment already traditionally hostile to them, wider Mormon culture has changed from being relatively very liberal in the middle of the 19th century, to being one of the most fiercely and recursively conservative regional cultures today.

And it really doesn&#039;t have to be that way.  One shouldn&#039;t adjust solely around the prejudices of highly judgmental theologians - it&#039;ll only make you more isolated, more bitter and less adaptable to living in such a dynamic and complex world.  Some people are forced into a crucible of adaptation because of someone they love, like with Marie Osmond and her lesbian daughter.  But most Mormons today don&#039;t seem to ponder complex questions and ethics, instead deferring to an ever-going prescribed cultural talmud of assumed rules that are forbidden to question.

Thing is, as a liberal Mormon (especially as a gay one), I was always taught to be a good thinker, and think for myself, and have a conscience that is flexible to new situations rather than something that is rigidly prescripted (&quot;stiffnecked&quot;).  It always seems a logical and ethical conclusion that it is so very wrong to treat gay people as anything less than full and complete natural human beings deserving full equal rights and dignity.  And when entire wards (congregations) are united like political war rooms to fight gay rights...that&#039;s just messed up to me.  I have my faith in some things, but that can never be one of them.  If I were to believe that gay people are somehow inherently less worthy and good than everyone else, I would simply have no conscience at all.  It&#039;s a ludicrous notion, and one of the greatest poisons infecting Mormon culture today.

I like what Marie did here, but I will be even more pleased when there are many many more Mormons who don&#039;t know any gay friends or family members who acknowledge what she has.  And as someone else said, it does seem to take one person at a time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this issue, it can get very very complicated in Mormon communities, and there is a great deal of cultural baggage around this.  And it&#8217;s not just about gay issues, but lots of things.  In traditional Mormon culture, there is a strong (and historically easily explained) persecution complex, where Mormondom has lived during times of great angst of being attacked or invaded by people who hate them.  At the same time, they desperately want to be recognized as Christians by the mainstream orthodox establishments, so there is great effort to be seen as ecumenical and united with the surrounding Christian world.  Unfortunately, this has left so much of Mormon culture vulnerable to being poisoned by some of the worst excesses of American fundamentalist evangelical culture.  Since Mormons tend to try harder than just about anyone else to fit in in a conservative religious environment already traditionally hostile to them, wider Mormon culture has changed from being relatively very liberal in the middle of the 19th century, to being one of the most fiercely and recursively conservative regional cultures today.</p>
<p>And it really doesn&#8217;t have to be that way.  One shouldn&#8217;t adjust solely around the prejudices of highly judgmental theologians &#8211; it&#8217;ll only make you more isolated, more bitter and less adaptable to living in such a dynamic and complex world.  Some people are forced into a crucible of adaptation because of someone they love, like with Marie Osmond and her lesbian daughter.  But most Mormons today don&#8217;t seem to ponder complex questions and ethics, instead deferring to an ever-going prescribed cultural talmud of assumed rules that are forbidden to question.</p>
<p>Thing is, as a liberal Mormon (especially as a gay one), I was always taught to be a good thinker, and think for myself, and have a conscience that is flexible to new situations rather than something that is rigidly prescripted (&#8220;stiffnecked&#8221;).  It always seems a logical and ethical conclusion that it is so very wrong to treat gay people as anything less than full and complete natural human beings deserving full equal rights and dignity.  And when entire wards (congregations) are united like political war rooms to fight gay rights&#8230;that&#8217;s just messed up to me.  I have my faith in some things, but that can never be one of them.  If I were to believe that gay people are somehow inherently less worthy and good than everyone else, I would simply have no conscience at all.  It&#8217;s a ludicrous notion, and one of the greatest poisons infecting Mormon culture today.</p>
<p>I like what Marie did here, but I will be even more pleased when there are many many more Mormons who don&#8217;t know any gay friends or family members who acknowledge what she has.  And as someone else said, it does seem to take one person at a time.</p>
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		<title>By: Mercedes</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/living/marie-osmond-i-support-gay-rights/comment-page-2/#comment-55698</link>
		<dc:creator>Mercedes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 19:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=7170#comment-55698</guid>
		<description>Anybody who loves someone who is gay will want equality for that person. Marie clearly loves her daughter and did not sacrifice her to the throngs of religious dogma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anybody who loves someone who is gay will want equality for that person. Marie clearly loves her daughter and did not sacrifice her to the throngs of religious dogma.</p>
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		<title>By: Patric</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/living/marie-osmond-i-support-gay-rights/comment-page-2/#comment-55682</link>
		<dc:creator>Patric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 17:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=7170#comment-55682</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Budbud, for correctly noting that Marie&#039;s comments do not reflect support for marriage equality, as incorrectly stated in the second paragraph of this post.

Of course, true equality under the law is only afforded by equal civil marriage and not by civil unions but, despite that, many politicians and others like to profess their support for full equality of rights for gay couples but in the form of civil unions (that does not represent support for full equality but they like to pretend that it does).  I think that Marie&#039;s comments suggest that she is supportive of civil unions and not, as this post incorrectly indicates, marriage equality.

Now, that is perhaps not so bad for someone raised in the family and in the church in which she is raised, and surely she deserves more credit than her loser brother.  We need to be precise, however: Ms. Osmond&#039;s position appears to be supportive of civil unions and not of marriage equality.

Beyond that, while many of us would probably be fine with those who support full equality under the law for us even while maintaining their personal view that we are sinners, I don&#039;t think we should ignore that her comments clearly suggest that she accepts what she believes to be the Bible&#039;s teaching against homosexuality. (&quot;I do believe in the Bible. My daughter understands my beliefs. And, and, uh, you know, God said to be married and be productive with your children and, and, you know, replenish the earth or whatever. She understands those things.&quot;)

So, is Marie Osmond&#039;s position significantly better than many in her faith and in her family?  Absolutely, but let&#039;s not crown her a champion of gay people.  And, please, let&#039;s be a little more careful in writing and proofing posts on this site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Budbud, for correctly noting that Marie&#8217;s comments do not reflect support for marriage equality, as incorrectly stated in the second paragraph of this post.</p>
<p>Of course, true equality under the law is only afforded by equal civil marriage and not by civil unions but, despite that, many politicians and others like to profess their support for full equality of rights for gay couples but in the form of civil unions (that does not represent support for full equality but they like to pretend that it does).  I think that Marie&#8217;s comments suggest that she is supportive of civil unions and not, as this post incorrectly indicates, marriage equality.</p>
<p>Now, that is perhaps not so bad for someone raised in the family and in the church in which she is raised, and surely she deserves more credit than her loser brother.  We need to be precise, however: Ms. Osmond&#8217;s position appears to be supportive of civil unions and not of marriage equality.</p>
<p>Beyond that, while many of us would probably be fine with those who support full equality under the law for us even while maintaining their personal view that we are sinners, I don&#8217;t think we should ignore that her comments clearly suggest that she accepts what she believes to be the Bible&#8217;s teaching against homosexuality. (&#8220;I do believe in the Bible. My daughter understands my beliefs. And, and, uh, you know, God said to be married and be productive with your children and, and, you know, replenish the earth or whatever. She understands those things.&#8221;)</p>
<p>So, is Marie Osmond&#8217;s position significantly better than many in her faith and in her family?  Absolutely, but let&#8217;s not crown her a champion of gay people.  And, please, let&#8217;s be a little more careful in writing and proofing posts on this site.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/living/marie-osmond-i-support-gay-rights/comment-page-2/#comment-55665</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 16:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=7170#comment-55665</guid>
		<description>The way to change the Mormon Church, or the Catholic Church, or the Republican Party is all the same - one person at a time. Marie does have a personal stake in this, her opinion might have been different if she hadn&#039;t been directly affected. Kudos to her daughter for coming out to her mom! The more of us who come out to family, Mormons, Catholics, Republicans (insert another one here), the more hearts and minds we win over. Maybe Marie isn&#039;t where we are, but she&#039;s in a better place than where a lot of other Mormons are. Instead of questioning her motives, go come out to someone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way to change the Mormon Church, or the Catholic Church, or the Republican Party is all the same &#8211; one person at a time. Marie does have a personal stake in this, her opinion might have been different if she hadn&#8217;t been directly affected. Kudos to her daughter for coming out to her mom! The more of us who come out to family, Mormons, Catholics, Republicans (insert another one here), the more hearts and minds we win over. Maybe Marie isn&#8217;t where we are, but she&#8217;s in a better place than where a lot of other Mormons are. Instead of questioning her motives, go come out to someone.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard-Las Vegas</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/living/marie-osmond-i-support-gay-rights/comment-page-2/#comment-55618</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard-Las Vegas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 12:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=7170#comment-55618</guid>
		<description>Marie is not as liberal as she would have us all think. She recently removed her teenage son from Las Vegas Acedemy (a performing arts magnet school) because there were too many homosexuals there!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marie is not as liberal as she would have us all think. She recently removed her teenage son from Las Vegas Acedemy (a performing arts magnet school) because there were too many homosexuals there!</p>
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		<title>By: Disgusted American</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/living/marie-osmond-i-support-gay-rights/comment-page-2/#comment-55616</link>
		<dc:creator>Disgusted American</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 12:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=7170#comment-55616</guid>
		<description>I wouldn&#039;t doubt there are a few more Osmonds children/relatives that are gay....I mean the percentages...and how many people they have in that family....come out,come out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t doubt there are a few more Osmonds children/relatives that are gay&#8230;.I mean the percentages&#8230;and how many people they have in that family&#8230;.come out,come out.</p>
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