Subscribe to Breaking NewsVanasco: Gay “conversion” scientists made it up
Surprise, surprise.
The New York Times’ John Tierney reports on his blog today that a new book questions whether Masters & Johnson faked the conversion of gays and lesbians into happy heterosexuals. Ex-gay groups, like Exodous International, often use the Masters & Johnson study to say that the ability to turn gays into ex-gays has a scientific basis. Fail!
Book author Thomas Maier reports his findings in Scientific American:
“When the clinic’s top associate, Robert Kolodny, asked to see the files and to hear the tape-recordings of these “storybook” cases, Masters refused to show them to him. Kolodny—who had never seen any conversion cases himself—began to suspect some, if not all, of the conversion cases were not entirely true. When he pressed Masters, it became ever clearer to him that these were at best composite case studies made into single ideal narratives, and at worst they were fabricated.”
Gee. The grandparents of ex-gay conversion therapy made it up? Who would have thought?
I agree that there needs to be research on this, but the truth is does anyone really want to find the real answer?
What if it turns out that it has nothing to do with DNA, but like the fish in the Mississippi river being converted sexually by hormones in the water, then What? We already know that Alcohol crosses the placenta. Nicotine also crosses the placenta and we have baby pictures of a child in utero screaming from mom’s cigarette nicotine exposure- something you never hear about from the right-to-life-people. Both of these two chemicals majorly affect the way the brain is wired in a child.
Then there is a down winder case in Washington State, where the US Government exposed the civilian population to secret nuclear releases, which resulted in some of the civilian population losing their thyroid. In this case, I am aware of the mother had to stop using her thyroid medication because her child in utero took over what would be her normal thyroid operation. It also caused the subject to grow 3 inches, which is part of normal hormonal influences. Again in a round about way showing that hormones can affect both parties of pregnancy.
We know the California migrant workers have problems with second generational infertility, do to the pesticides messing with where the male urethra ends up on the male penis (not at the end were it belongs). It was reported back in the late 90’s in the AP wire that the cause was do to the pesticide acting as a hormone in both the human and insect sexual devolvement. It was reported in the AP article that there was concern about this pesticide by the California government, but for some reason it was covered up. Because the AP wire does not keep a researchable history of its archives it has been next to impossible to track down the history of this California study.
But it seems that no one wants to really find out what the hormones ingredients do to help wired a child brain in utero. That would mean the religious right would have to give up their fifth grade understanding of human sexuality based on a bunch of sheepherders from the Bible, and admit that science has more answers then the “just because the Bible says so” theology does.
But on the other hand, from the scientific community, it seems that they want to only study the DNA Human Genome cook book because DNA that’s safe and makes them money. What happens if it has nothing to do with DNA, but has to do with something that can’t be controlled like exposure to hormones? It’s already happen with little Bobbies’ pee pee because mommy worked out in the strawberry field and got exposed to a certain pesticide. And lets not forget that you don’t have to have mom walking in a chemical fog to have the baby exposed to hormones. Mother tends to be a walking hormone factory herself. What happens if mom hormones overrides baby’s DNA (so much for the gay gene)? And like any good theory it has to work for the boys and the girls, not just one or the other. Problem with this theory: It works, if you understand how stress can effect the mother’s hormone production both for estrogen and testosterone. But then we don’t want to know this. It’s easier to judge the transsexual or the homosexual then accept them the way they are.
What scary? We have already changed sex of rats in utreo using hormones, but we in the US dare not speak of it, or fund it. But we in the USA can judge it. We leave real human sexuality science up to the British. And God forbid we think of possibility of doing it to a human being. We can’t get over the idea of Stem Cell research. So again I ask you do we really want to be honest about this? We can’t even talk about sex to our parents or to our kids, so what makes this any different?
About 25 or 30 years ago, I was a young, naive and closeted gay guy who wondered if there really was a way out from being gay. I remember going to a local library but, back then, there were very FEW books about homosexuality. (Fortunately, that has changed drastically now). One of the books that DID mention it was Masters and Johnson’s book “Human Sexual Inadequacy”. It had a chapter about homosexuality which I read carefully, hoping that they somehow had the formula to cure me. In that book, they gave several examples of patients they had allegedly treated and who “recovered” from their homosexual inclinations. It all seemed just too simple. I mean, a gay guy would go to see them and would have to bring a female along with him for the visit. The guy was told to fondle the woman and kiss her. After one or two visits, Masters and Johnson reported that the gay man(allegedly) overcame his homosexual feelings.
I now realize that their stories were a total bunch of baloney. The book had been written years earlier, possibly in the late 1940’s or 1950’s. It was the prevailing opinion, back then, that the only way a homosexual could ever be happy was by becoming heterosexual. I believe Masters and Johnson engaged in OUTRAGEOUS wishful thinking. And worse. They engaged in deception.
How could they possibly report a person having ben “cured” of homosexuality after only one, two or three office visits.
There was no long term follow up.
They gave false hope to gays of that earlier, less enlightened generation.
The vast majority of psychiatrists know that Masters and Johnson were just plain wrong about homosexuality.
Wow, this sounds remarkably similar to the Kinsey Institute’s findings of “born that way”. The etiological basis for homosexuality is purely conjecture based on the American Psychological Associations’ point of view until LGBT legal and medical professionals are willing to submit to MRI polygraphs.
I knew I was gay since 9 years old. I married at 29 and was married for 23 years. I tried and tried to be straight. I was loyal to my wife. If I could not be converted in those 23 years I do not believe that conversion will ever work.
I believe that demonizing and repressing this part of yourself is more harmful to an individual than coming to terms with being who you are. My uncle decided HE needed to talk to a psychiatrist about his nephew being gay. Apparently his psychiatrist knew me well enough to say that I am gay because my mother was a dominant force in my life. Go figure I thought it was because I liked guys. Anyway, he tried to convince my mom to put me in some program for reparitive therapy. She accepted me for who I am and I am extremely lucky with that.
The Exodus site article is interesting, insofar as it purports to be a careful-objective unbiased review of all of the available pertinent literatures on sexual orientation change. In fact, the author is careful to dress his narrative very, very carefully – a welcome twirl on the textual nobs, dialing down the loud or strident nastiness in tone that affects so much antigay writing. His reviews of the available literatures are yet another matter, completely. He consistently glosses every available work towards an outcome of uncertain evidentiary weight; while valorizing the religion involved in Exodus type ministries as faithful, true, and blessedly at peace.
No surprises in that review, then. He does cite the M&J studies as among the best peer reviewed evidence for successful, happy outcomes where allegedly gay folks notably improved themselves and their daily lives by getting over their blips of homosexual attraction.
In the end, this review amounts to disguised hagiography – just read the glowing ending about getting to meet the Exodus-compatible change authors who ride highest in the reviewer’s religious opinions. A medieval saint could hardly have had higher praise.
The reviewer is also quite soured by what he reads as a tone of pain among many of the queer folks who wrote extensively about their Coming Out, especially when that involved a long journey or struggle with negative-traditional religious views of the sin of homosexuality.
Again, his neutral tones are a relief, though artfully spun in their abilities to render the reviewer above and beyond, distant from any church or society which does sometimes inflict undue pain or burdens on the queer folks who grow up as children, taking that religion or cultural opprobrium seriously at heavy face value.
If Masters made up his case studies and outcome data, we have another major blow to the credibilites of so-called Reparation Therapy.
Of course it’s fake. Has anyone been able to convert a cat into a dog?
Asheley – clearly you are confused. Lying is one of, if not THE, holiest thing a believer can do! Thinking otherwise is a sign of your sinful nature. Let me explain. There are all kinds of untrue things to be found in the Bible – and yet, the Bible (as all true believers know) is the *inerrant* word of God. Stop for a moment and think about that. *That* means God says untrue things. Exactly! If *God* says untrue things should we not, as true believers, follow God’s example and say untrue things as well? And smite folks every once in a while and visit a plague upon others now and then? We must however do all those things with love in our heart. If we smite we must love. If we infect we must love and if we lie we must love. Got it? Great. Now then, I’ve got this Bridge in Brooklyn that I could give you a great deal on. And I say that with love. Lots of love.
You mean they made it up that homosexuals could be converted to happy heterosexism?
DUH!!!!!
Quite a lively conversation going on over at Scientific America!
Ha! Something tells me this won’t make the headlines of World Net Daily.
Okay, WE already know that. Let’s get it out to the fundementalists…They probably won’t believe it, but at least we can say we tried to open their eyes to the TRUTH!
John, clink on the link “Scientific American” that will take you to the article on journal’s website rather than to the blog.
Say isn’t lying a sin in every religion? Or is this group unaware of what lying can do to people? Then again this is a religious organization and religious organizations wouldn’t bully, harass, and/or push people into comitted violence and discrimination agaisnt others, would they? I don’t think this group got the whole message about being kind to others. They ruin life for everybody.
Is it covered anywhere else though? It’d be nice if it would move from blog to the front page some printed papers.