Subscribe to Breaking NewsVanasco: Blame religion, not race
Researchers, in conjunction with the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, released a report today that said that people who voted against gay marriage in California had four things in common:
1. They attended religious services weekly
2. They were Republicans
3. They were conservatives
4. They were born before World War II
It is these factors, rather than race or gender, that made the difference – the researchers say that no more than 58 percent of African-Americans voted yes on Prop 8, putting them in line with all other ethnic groups.
We’ll have a news story on this with more details later (and a link to the report), but I thought this was important, and that we should get something up about it quickly.
There was a long conversation on the call about what the next steps might be. One interesting discovery – the vote wasn’t influenced by whether someone knew a gay person. One researcher made the point that opposition to gay marriage isn’t personal – it’s partsian. If you’re Republican, religious, conservative, you will be against it, no matter how many gay people you wave to at the grocery store.
Nevertheless, folks at the Task Force thinks that LGBT Christians should try outreach in their own churches. They say that substantial conversations may have an impact. And they say we need to make stronger, better, more frequent arguments to religious leaders about how it is a moral good to support all families, not just straight ones.
Your thoughts?
Brian, what you allege is simply not true. Corretta Scott King recognized Gay people who marched and worked for equal rights for black people when they had little chance for a voice for their own rights. Enough said.
Larry, it’s obvious that you hate yourself. I can see why. There is lying, cheating, debauchery of babylonian scale in the hetero “community,” yet somehow it’s all too different when applied to the gay community. Please, take your religion and twisted self hatred elsewhere. You’re boring and have no place speaking on behalf of anyone but yourself.
Sli…quite to the contrary regarding the Bible….it DOES say things about homosexuality…in MANY places, in the HEBREW, GREEK, LATIN, ARAMAIC and ANY other langauge…so I suggest you make further investigation into those things….i.e…both the OLD and NEW Testaments…AND if you want to know where those passages of scripture are…I would be more than happy to point them out….but, in saying that we are to LOVE one another, that is VERY true….so read the Apostle Paul’s DEFINITION of Love…and when applied to the the Gay Community at large, it is a HUGE indictment….Aristotle also CONDEMNED gays for lying together in LUST…so it is NOT confined to Christianity…and MANY other religions are the same…it is NOT the WHAT that is the problem….it is the WHY!!!
I neglected to mention that it is not RELIGION either….
ok….personally, as a gay man, I don’t believe that gays should be allowed the “privilege” of marriage. The vast majority of gay men are socially and morally irresponsible, equating “sex” with a “handshake” wanting Americans to say that debauchery is an acceptable lifestyle, when, in fact, nothing could be further from the truth. I have seen, firsthand, the lies, cheating, and debauchery that GAYS want to be considered “acceptable” and recognized as legitimate. It would be an outrage if America turned a blind eye to the inherently unacceptable nature of gay men and women and said “OK”. I don’t think gays will EVER get the message, because they want to believe that this “lifestyle” is OK – to alleviate and vindicate their ego’s and their guilt-ridden conscious’s. Gays should NOT be allowed that right UNTIL they learn to be more MORALLY and SOCIALLY responsible, which won’t be for a long, long time I’m afraid…and that TRUTH IS…that this has nothing to do with GENDER or RACE…it has to do with what the “heteros” see of the gay community…and the vast amount of drama, debauchery, lies, cheating, and inherently socially unacceptable behavior of the gay community at larger….WAKE UP….if you want “social” acceptance…then be “socially” responsible!
Then Eddie, explain to we why our church is very racially diverse and why we whites would come and be an active part of a funeral service for a black woman from Liberia whom we all loved, such a sweet and kind person that lady was who did so much for her native country and so much for our church. She did so much for her native country that the ambassador of Liberia (a black man) came to speak at her funeral and so did someone from her international women’s group in Liberia.
If our church is so racist, then why is our interum rector (white) married to a black man and why did she preach in Africa and work to help the people of the area where she preach…then why do mostly liberal white families with kids attend there? Why do white gays who abhor racist things attend service there? Why would our straight preachers who are in open opposition to discrimination of any type including antigay preach there? Why would a liberal gay organist be organist there for 25 years? Why a partnered gay preacher who has zero tolerance for any discrimination preach there often? Why would a very dear partnered gay friend of mine who works in a scientific facility and who does not put up with nonsense be at the very top of the vestry?
Sorry, in the case of our church that does many good deeds for the least of our society for the homeless and the needy, for the hungry, I think your words do not add up. Your experience is so vastly removed from mine. Maybe the fact that we are in the Maryland suburbs of DC helps a lot. No openly racist institution would survive for long in our area, and my church has been in existence for a bit over 50 years and a black woman and her black husband have been attending at our church for at least 38 of those years. To call the church I attend racist when we have Cambodians, Thais, Africans, Jamaicans, Latinos, Greek, Serbian, English, Gay Americans, Welsh and Gaelic speakers, liberal middle class White families with kids, etc, to call our extremely diverse church racist is to call an apple an orange! Doesn’t add up and is a very mistaken notion.
I wrote a rather long, researched piece on this topic back in November:
http://socialdysfunction.ramseyisler.com/2008/11/09/blacks-hate-gay-people-maybe-maybe-not-facts-and-figures/
Essentially, if you look at a number of factors (including poll data on gay marriage bills from all states), you’ll find data that suggests Blacks aren’t much different than Whites or Latinos on this topic overall. Is that disappointing? Should black people be more sensitive to the issue of gay rights? Probably. But the belief that blacks overall are really much different on the issue just doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. The county vote and poll data alone suggests that usually votes are similar across all demos in the region (California and Florida being remarkable exceptions in polls, but iffy in county vote data).
Little known fact: South Africa, a nation that is 80% black, and 80% Christian, and with a history of civil rights struggles, is one of the six nations in the world with legalized national gay marriage.
“When have Gay people not reach out to African Americans, when? Gay people, white gay people to be more precise, have always put aside their own civil rights to fight for those of African Americans.” Wow, that is some dream world there. I keep hearing people say that but I’m still waiting for specific examples.”
Ahh!… the arrogance those with a sense of entitlement!!!
For further elucidation go out and speak to gay seniors and hear what they have to say.
Dave W,
there are people like myself who have realized that things rot, rust and corrode, and that people can sicken, die and that even friends and family can leave you.
So, as much as I love my friends and family, and my things, I am reminded daily of the lack of permanence of all those things and of people.
I get more our of my church, which is a growing and vibrant place with kids, families, young and old, gay and straight. More out of it than I ever will a gay bar or nightclub (which do practically zero for my inner person)
I look forward each Sunday morning to my church services.
I have fled atheism as I have found it lacking, empty and unhappy. My faith sustains me as friends die, move away, are some are less and less friendly, atc.
5 years ago, I never dreamed that the day would come when I would have a conversation with someone like you who wants to “cure” me of my faith. My faith is to blame for the fact that I have the same old bottles of booze that may never get emptied by the time I am 80 25 years from now, for the fact that I do not take illegal drugs, that I am not suicidal, that while I fight for my rights I manage to find things to be thankful for every day. For my house and my car, my friends and family, for the wonderful man who loved me and helped me get onto an easier path in life financially, that I have enough food on my table and enough money to live modestly but well, that I am resilient through disappoointments, that i feed the hungry and bring gifts at Christmas time to poor women and their kids at a local county shelter along with my other church members.
I have found happiness in my church, something I will never realize in a roomful of atheists.
And as for science, this may come as a shocker to you, Dave, but through the ages, scientists who helped to establish very exacting and rigorous mathematics and scientific means of verifying facts, have OFTEN believed in God and after years of establishing their sciences have seen the complexity, order, exactness and rigor of Science as proof as proof God is exists. For God is beauty, truth, exactness and order.
My faith has put my own life on solid ground and has brought light, beauty, truth, exactness, order and organization to it more and more.
I respectfully submit, Dave W. that there is nothing there that you can find to cure. God is curing me and healing me and I am more complete these days than I was went I was denying God and denying Christ.
Every one has a right to their own journey in life, I would not be so forward as to presume that my way is anyone else’s way.
I have never, ever have tried to change an atheist, and would never dream of changing you Dave W and you are not going to change me.
Say what you might, but some of the most liberal gay men and women have found happiness in their churches. I am a liberal gay man who stands tall and tough for his rights. And the one of these rights is his right to worship at his church even if it troubles and horrifies a roomful of gay atheists. I am inmersed in gay politics day in and day out through reading and through protesting.
My time in church is my time of inner refreshmment and renewal, to go out into the world charged up and with a feeling of the ragged cares and concerns dropped away for a few hours each week ready to tackle it all again. What a feeling to be amongst friendly, cheerful people in my gay-friendly church who are of clean speech and of joyful, thankful heart.
Dave W…I had to comment on your comment. I have been through hell and back to reconcile my spirituality with my sexuality, but it is done. I study the teachings of Jesus right along with the Tao and anything else that sounds intriguing to me. If pressed on a term to define myself, I would say Christian because of my great admiration for the teachings of Jesus. I refuse to give the wingnuts all of the rights to all of the words. They are fighting us tooth and nail for the word ‘marriage”. I am no zealot by any means. I keep my beliefs private until I find myself with those who wish to discuss. I’m not trying to convert anyone. That’s what free will is all about. We all get to choose our own paths. As for me, I am a self-respecting lesbian christian.
I know all those rap stars are so religious too – that’s why they have all those antigay lyrics.
All those reggae artists too – it’s all religion. 
I don’t care what religion you are – or what color you are – a homophobe is a homophobe.
If I’m man enough to call my white southern grandmother a racist – and she is a racist – the black members of the gay community can man up and admit that homophobia is not only acceptable in the black community – it is institutionalized and cultural. There is no denying this.
Name ONE gay organization that discriminates based on race. JUST ONE.
Name one gay recording artist who spouts racist lyrics or advocates violence against blacks. JUST ONE.
I can name many black organizations that discriminate against gay people.
I can name dozens of black recording artists who advocate violence against gay people and spout homophobic lyrics.
Stop apologizing for your oppressors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G9z1rhEdNU
Watch this all the way to the end,, pay special attention to the Arc of Justice speech.
More than 70% of Black Californians voted for Prop 8. This is a well documented statistic which most exit polling agencies stand by.
Religion is a problem, but African Americans who voted for Prop 8 are just as guilty of bigotry as those who lynched their ancestors.
How would African Americans in California feel if 70% of gay Californians voted to strip them of their constitutional rights and send them back to Africa?!?!
Jennifer, I can’t agree more it is religion not race. It just troubles me that we see blacks going to church more than whites amongst the exit pollees. This means to me we need to help them more to get rid of religion.
But I’m posting to STRONGLY disagree with the National G&L task force about christian outreach.
I know I’ll hurt some feelings with this but WHAT SELF RESPECTING GAY COULD CALL HIM/HERSELF A CHRISTIAN????? That evilist of cults has pushed hate against us from the beginning. And don’t tell me Jesus loved everyone, even the prostitutes. I’m sicking of being compared to them.
We should help the world reject religion. We will then be seen as the thought leaders we are in other fields like the arts.
Religion is dying its last gasp anyway, lets be on the right side of history with reason and science.
I’d counter their suggestion by saying we should reach out to gay christians and help cure them. A great place to start healing is always within your own family, and these people need medicine badly.
Vanasco keeps stirring up the same old, old stale religious controversy pot, my own church would eventually do same-sex marriages if they were legal in my state of Maryland, which may happen in about 5 years from now here in MD… yet she the uber-talented editor in chief can’t even give us a sparkling new story like Norway’s New Year’s Day gift to same-sex couples, that day is the day gay couples can legally begin to marry in Norway. Making Norway gay marriage land #6. What a scenically magnificent country, I’ve been to Norway and traveled across it by boat, plane and bus and train and it’s a 1st class land for a legal gay wedding, one that recognizes gay rights and gay couples.
And while we are on religion, I’ve read that in Norway’s county of Nordland even some churches there have flown rainbow flags.
“Similarities in some aspects does not make them the same.”
It’s exactly the same regarding the issue of marriage.
“Maybe we should own our own struggles instead of constantly hijacking the struggles of others in order to gain better ground.”
The struggle for civil rights and equality is a human condition not owned by any one group. When one group struggles we all do.