Subscribe to Breaking NewsRuby-Sachs: The Opposition
The Catholic Church in New Jersey is gearing up for a fight against same-sex marriage. By gearing up I mean writing to 2300 supporters the following:
“The Catholic Church teaches today and has always and everywhere taught for 2,000 years that marriage is the union of one man and one woman. …This great truth about marriage is not some obscure doctrinal fine point but a fact of human nature, recognized from time immemorial by people of virtually every faith and culture.”
It amazes me that the opposition continues to make these ridiculous claims. It amazes me that they continue to resonate with people.
The only conclusion I can come to – assuming that we agree for a moment that the union between one man and one woman has not been practiced for very long nor has it been very common around the world in other religions and cultures – is that once an individual or group of individual engages in a practice, they automatically assume that their practice is rooted in history and fundamentally correct to the exclusion of all others.
It makes sense. Though we claim to be innovators, we really don’t want to be doing anything that isn’t backed by the guarantee of history and moral approval. Just because the people receiving this letter happen to be in a heterosexual monogamous relationship, they nod with approval when the church makes grossly overstated and patently untrue claims.
Sigh.
It’s nothing new. But as the Catholic Church gears up to attempt a defeat of same-sex marriage in New Jersey. I can’t help but get a little frustrated with decent men and women of that State who read these ridiculous letters and believe every word.
I say this as a gay man who recently converted TO catholicism (gasp – lol). The Catholic church has long mandated the greatest revisionist history efforts ever…and they have succeeded. Please read “Same-Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe”(1994) by the late, great John Boswell (He was a premier historian of traditions in antiquity at Yale – and he was gay.) According to him (and he has fortified citations – the man cites EVERYTHING!), the Vatican archives hold texts which document same-sex marriage ceremonies endorsed and even championed by the early church. He even lists some from before the church – from the Hellanistic Era. Do yourself a favor and read the book. Our ancestors – even those in the church were very PRO-GAY!
The glaring example provided by numerous heterosexual marriages, is that indeed, it is not simply one man one woman, as advertised, as the divorce option means couples can marry as many times as they wish. There is no governmental penalty for divorce. You can remarry after divorce. It’s unfortunate that these things happen, but to not acknowledge the failure rate of straight marriage is not honest, and to prevent gays from entering into their own marriges, is, if anything, cruel. I’ve often though maybe the crux of the marriage issue, is maybe straights don’t want the competition, are afraid of having to go toe to toe with gay marriage statistics. That maybe gay marriages might last longer?
The funny thing is that the earlier “Ritulum Romanum” doesn’t say “Between this man and this woman.” It says “Between these two houses.”
Instead of saying ‘religion is not the enemy’ it would be better to say ’spirituality is not the enemy.’ Terrible things have been done in the name of many a church, but wonderful things can come from a greater awareness of the nature of life and the roles we play in it. Encouragingly, many individual churches are finally coming around to recognizing that. The Pope not so much, but isn’t he gradually becoming irrelevant in the US? (Gradually, I said.) The Catholics I know ‘bend the rules’ or take things with a grain of salt all the time. There are the hardcore, they are out there and they are scary, but I think they are a vocal minority.
Victor Victor said:
“The number of queers I know who find enrichment in accepting congregations far outnumbers the queers I know who aren’t religious. Have you been to a Pride festival, and seen all the churches there? I’m not talking about the crazies on the corner, I’m talking about the churches with booths. Everything from Methodist, to Baptist to Pentecostal.”
Victor must not know very many queers! Secondly, if you even think that Baptists and Pentecostals are arms open and welcoming to you, you are deceived. I would much rather think that these churches are at pride events to convert you, make you ex-gay, “love the sinner, hate the sin” crap. Take a look behind the curtain of ANY group or organization that is fighting to repeal gay rights or prevent EQUAL or same-sex MARRIAGE (I try to avoid the term “gay marriage”) and you will find a church or religious group spearheading it and donating tons of money.
Geez Victor, get a reality check. And don’t seek out a church to find one!
I grew up Catholic & was an altar boy for many years back in the era of the old latin Mass.I’m no longer involved with any religion , but have fond memories of church life. But the Catholic church of today isn’t anything resembling the church then.Today it is run by attack dogs with little attention paid to the basic principles of goodness, mercy, compassion & forgiveness.I sometimes wonder if when electing a pope , they should have stuck with the Italians.They had some heart.
To GERRY FISHER above: You said everything I’m feeling and thinking better than I could have done it myself! Thank you…We WILL Win!
Facebook user, I would have to say not only do I not look loony…you are the total loon here, whatever that means.
Gerry got it right so i won’t repeat. All I’ll say is you need to wake up and realize you have been sold a bunch of snake oil simply to get your money. Same for all those churches at pride events. Duh, they are recruiting!
Religion brainwashes people so well they can’t see how they are harming themselves.
All those queers finding enrichment could get it from a doctor without living with the knowledge they are funding their own discrimination.
Emma: I’m wondering if you or another editor would be willing to do a blog piece on this, since it seems the issue has traction. Perhaps inteview some gay religious people, see what they say about my charge they are being duped into funding the foes we fight so hard.
When I read Facebook user’s comment I just couldn’t believe he/she would say religion is not the enemy! Without religion we wouldn’t need a gay rights movement. Religion was used to justify slavery!
I think it would be an interesting conversation, there are those that say religion was responsible for the civil rights movement, for example. (I happen to think those churches got involved because their congregations were nearly 100% black so they of course would fight for civil rights. If white churches were fighting for blacks’ civil rights then we’d have something)…geez the catholic church was against interracial marriage..we had a law on the books here in Mass passed at the urging of the church way back in the teens.
I’m just constantly amazed at how gullable people are…so much to the point they will fund discrimination against themselves simply to get an entry pass into heaven.
Its a bunch of lies facebook user..there is no heaven!!!!! Join a gay club for spiritual comfort if you need it so bad. I prefer to find my solace, joy and happines from my family, friends, dog and community. Don’t need your fairy tales, I’m not easily lied to!
Ah the Catholic Church! Add to their resume a few wars, bringing Hitler to power in Germany in 1933, an inquisition, defending slavery in the 1800’s, discrimination against women, and enabling and covering up pedophilia. George Carlin said it much better and funnier than I. Check out his piece on Youtube called “Religion is Bullshit”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNy6ziOyxoA
>Religion is NOT the enemy, and never has been.
REEEEEAAAA-lly?!
So, let me get this correct. You are welcomed and spiritually nourished in your congregation. They pass around the little basket at services. Your drop some money in. Some of the money goes up the chain to support the larger organization. And–for many denominations, but not all–the larger organization distributes hateful messages about gays and others, organizes oppressive political actions toward gays and others, and overall contributes to attacks on our community. And these attacks definitely contribute to our social/political oppression and probably contribute to a culture of fear, hatred, anti-sensuality, and anti-sexuality that spurs an increased risk of suicide, substance abuse, and promiscuity in our community…especially in our youth.
And it’s all OK as long as you are comfy in your pew. Really?!
And just because you’re comfy in your pew, you can ignore the well documented hatred and violence perpetrated by organized religion–usually the dominant religion at the time–throughout history. Not to mention the role religion played in 9/11, the invasion of Iraq, the violence between sects within Iraq, and the continued global support of Al Queda.
Did you watch Slumdog Millionaire last year? Remember the scene where the Hindus beat, killed, and burned alive the Muslims?
Do you still want to go on record as saying that this is all OK as long as you’re comfortable and spiritually nourished within your individual congregation?! (And, if you belong to a larger religious organization that has no history of oppression–for example, a UU church–then this really doesn’t apply to you.)
The Catholic church has no problem lying about gay marriage or anything else to get what they want. This shouldn’t surprise you. This just shows how bankrupt their position is and what hypocritical cowards they are.
I hope the xtian nazis are not getting their dirty claws on my home state.
Whatever you believe (or not), religion is a personal concept and law is social, i.e should concern with equal protection with everybody. Yes, in law’s eyes I am due EQUAL treatment, same as the Pope; keep your silly fairy tales out of my life!
DaveW, do you read the things you post? Religion is NOT the enemy, and never has been. The number of queers I know who find enrichment in accepting congregations far outnumbers the queers I know who aren’t religious. Have you been to a Pride festival, and seen all the churches there? I’m not talking about the crazies on the corner, I’m talking about the churches with booths. Everything from Methodist, to Baptist to Pentecostal. I’m talking about the small Catholic parishes who are far enough off the mother church’s radar to get away with being accepting. These organizations are out there, and we need to support them. Deciding personally that the line between issues and candidates isn’t important makes you look like a loon, and it makes the calls you place with legitimate complaints a lot less credible. Stating that “RELIGION” is the enemy, instead of the churches out there that still cultivate hate and intolerance alienates you to the majority of Americans. Many of those Americans might make you crazy, but like it or not they have the vote, and you can’t take that away from them without a lot of Revolution and Death. Unless you’re willing to take those steps then you need to re-evaluate how effective your methods actually are in the society you have been bridled with.
Please the church’s history is paved with the work of gays. If it wasn’t for us the Sistine chapel would be another dingy cathedral. The good part of Catholicism is that, unlike other religions, Catholics invite debate. This letter writing campaign is a symbol of the old ultra conservative Latin speaking church trying to flex its muscles. It would be unfair to think that everyone would take the church seriously on this issue. I come from a long line of Catholics that have doubted and disagreed with church officials over other issues. There are factions within the Church and other churches that wish to see us marry, we have to reach out to them. Religion is not the enemy its apathy that is our biggest enemy. I have said this before if we are going to hit hard with a campaign against these factions we need to do it now when church enrollment is at a low and so are donations. Either way don’t be to scared of the Catholic church its those crazy evangelicals that are dangerous, they have guns.
Emma, please get a lot frustrated with these people! The time has long passed that we should be giving people a morality or ignorance pass on bigotry! The church claims a morality pass….it is our cultural/religious moral history and thus it is ok to be bigots. Wrong. We should not give it to them.
The flock also claim that, or at least, the ignorance pass “I didn’t know we had gays in our state” or like my mother “but why do you need to marry since the federal government guarantees equal protection” (yikes).
Seriously, we should not stand by and let “decent men and women” take this brainwashing message in, turn it around as hate teach to their children and blindly continue to put money in the plate.
Sure, the leadership is pure evil, but without the donations by the sheeple, they would have no teeth.
In Maine the portland bishop sent one of his minions to the baptist and pentacostal churches…the other bigotry bastions….to collect signatures.
Why are we merely frustrated and not red-faced angry? Why are we not telling everyone stained with religion that they are contributing to deaths in our community? Why are we not calling the IRS to report political activity of non profits (who cares about the fine line between candidates and policy politicking? I still call and report every time they step over MY line which is involvement at all).
Unless we as a movement wake up and realize religion is our true enemy, we will continue to fight battles but never engage in the real war.
For if we don’t stop religions spread of bigotry, we will never win. They promise the keys to the candystore to the kids…the virgins, the re-meeting up with dead family members and eternal bliss with streets paved in gold. How can we compet with that?