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	<title>Comments on: Ruby-Sachs: Judge Makes Wrong Call in McInerney Trial</title>
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		<title>By: RobertinWestbury</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-judge-makes-wrong-call-in-mcinerney-trial/comment-page-4/#comment-70045</link>
		<dc:creator>RobertinWestbury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8761#comment-70045</guid>
		<description>&quot;Pre-meditated murder is about as “adult crime” as you get...&quot;

Yes it is.  But this &#039;adult&#039; crime was committed by a child who didn&#039;t have the maturity to make an adult decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Pre-meditated murder is about as “adult crime” as you get&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes it is.  But this &#8216;adult&#8217; crime was committed by a child who didn&#8217;t have the maturity to make an adult decision.</p>
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		<title>By: KaninZ</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-judge-makes-wrong-call-in-mcinerney-trial/comment-page-4/#comment-70042</link>
		<dc:creator>KaninZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 08:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8761#comment-70042</guid>
		<description>What a crock. By the age of 14 you are expected to know that it isn&#039;t ok to plan to kill someone then carry out that plan. You are also fully aware of the consequences.

  Pre-meditated murder is about as &quot;adult crime&quot; as you get and this &quot;poor misguided waif&quot; needs to have his homophobic, sociopathic buns locked away.

  Yes, locked away, not killed. Give him a good long time to appreciate some male on male lovin in the Federal Pen. I&#039;m sure he&#039;ll be quite popular!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a crock. By the age of 14 you are expected to know that it isn&#8217;t ok to plan to kill someone then carry out that plan. You are also fully aware of the consequences.</p>
<p>  Pre-meditated murder is about as &#8220;adult crime&#8221; as you get and this &#8220;poor misguided waif&#8221; needs to have his homophobic, sociopathic buns locked away.</p>
<p>  Yes, locked away, not killed. Give him a good long time to appreciate some male on male lovin in the Federal Pen. I&#8217;m sure he&#8217;ll be quite popular!</p>
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		<title>By: Facebook User</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-judge-makes-wrong-call-in-mcinerney-trial/comment-page-4/#comment-70027</link>
		<dc:creator>Facebook User</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 02:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8761#comment-70027</guid>
		<description>I agrre that the judge made a bad call, however this does provide for an insanity plea or deminished mental capacity. This boy, who&#039;s own bodily chemicals fill him with self-doubt, the fear of isolation and ridicule from peers and adults (more so than that of an adult), could be forced into a life inwhich the abuse he has already suffered doesn&#039;t compare to the abuse he will come to know. Because of his knowledge and understanding of his self, others, the world, rules, laws, and everything we consider to be &quot;adult decisions&quot;, the boy is considered a child. And a child he is. He should be punished for his crime yes. But a mental institution with a focused goal of working with children that have committed crimes is more befitting than a teen-prison and transfer to an adult prison. He will not stay in prison forever. And will probably come out more screwed up than he is now. Save this boy. He deserves rehabilitation. We owe it to every child. All the way around, his family failed him; the system failed him, and society has failed him. I know that he killed a boy. It wasn&#039;t because the boy was gay. It was because he has been ridiculed by classmates, friends, and adults about a gay boy liking him. He felt embarrassed, afraid, and ashamed..as if it was his fault that a gay boy liked him and there was something wrong with that. Someone influenced this boy to take drastic actions to prove there was nothing wrong with him. That is the person that deserves to be in prison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agrre that the judge made a bad call, however this does provide for an insanity plea or deminished mental capacity. This boy, who&#8217;s own bodily chemicals fill him with self-doubt, the fear of isolation and ridicule from peers and adults (more so than that of an adult), could be forced into a life inwhich the abuse he has already suffered doesn&#8217;t compare to the abuse he will come to know. Because of his knowledge and understanding of his self, others, the world, rules, laws, and everything we consider to be &#8220;adult decisions&#8221;, the boy is considered a child. And a child he is. He should be punished for his crime yes. But a mental institution with a focused goal of working with children that have committed crimes is more befitting than a teen-prison and transfer to an adult prison. He will not stay in prison forever. And will probably come out more screwed up than he is now. Save this boy. He deserves rehabilitation. We owe it to every child. All the way around, his family failed him; the system failed him, and society has failed him. I know that he killed a boy. It wasn&#8217;t because the boy was gay. It was because he has been ridiculed by classmates, friends, and adults about a gay boy liking him. He felt embarrassed, afraid, and ashamed..as if it was his fault that a gay boy liked him and there was something wrong with that. Someone influenced this boy to take drastic actions to prove there was nothing wrong with him. That is the person that deserves to be in prison.</p>
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		<title>By: Trace Eggers</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-judge-makes-wrong-call-in-mcinerney-trial/comment-page-4/#comment-70023</link>
		<dc:creator>Trace Eggers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8761#comment-70023</guid>
		<description>Ted, I did social work for years.  I worked in Children&#039;s Services for many of those years.  

I can&#039;t say that I&#039;ve ever met a 14 year old that did not know the difference between right and wrong.  Now choosing between right and wrong is another matter. But then, that is the same issue that all murderers have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted, I did social work for years.  I worked in Children&#8217;s Services for many of those years.  </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t say that I&#8217;ve ever met a 14 year old that did not know the difference between right and wrong.  Now choosing between right and wrong is another matter. But then, that is the same issue that all murderers have.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Klopfer</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-judge-makes-wrong-call-in-mcinerney-trial/comment-page-4/#comment-70022</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Klopfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 00:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8761#comment-70022</guid>
		<description>There is a reason why we don&#039;t allow 14 y/o make sexual decisions for themselves. We don&#039;t allow them to sign contracts. We don&#039;t allow them to vote or serve in the armed forces.  If you think a 14 y/o should be treated as an adult, then they should get all the rights of an adult.  Now that is just stupid isn&#039;t it?
This crime was cruel and unjust but it was not an adult committing the crime; it was a child. His frontal lobe will not stop developing for 10 more years.  That does not give a free pass but he should not be treated like a person who is fully developed.
A 14 y/o can not aid in his defense as an adult can.
And to the person who said that by his age he knows right from wrong has never spent much time talking with teenagers. They have an altered sense of reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a reason why we don&#8217;t allow 14 y/o make sexual decisions for themselves. We don&#8217;t allow them to sign contracts. We don&#8217;t allow them to vote or serve in the armed forces.  If you think a 14 y/o should be treated as an adult, then they should get all the rights of an adult.  Now that is just stupid isn&#8217;t it?<br />
This crime was cruel and unjust but it was not an adult committing the crime; it was a child. His frontal lobe will not stop developing for 10 more years.  That does not give a free pass but he should not be treated like a person who is fully developed.<br />
A 14 y/o can not aid in his defense as an adult can.<br />
And to the person who said that by his age he knows right from wrong has never spent much time talking with teenagers. They have an altered sense of reality.</p>
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		<title>By: RobertinWestbury</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-judge-makes-wrong-call-in-mcinerney-trial/comment-page-4/#comment-69989</link>
		<dc:creator>RobertinWestbury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8761#comment-69989</guid>
		<description>I am not going to be swayed by hypothetical future events that can’t be foreseen.  Assumptions that I can’t know to be valid.  

I fully support the death penalty for any adult who commits a heinous crime such as this.  People like Joseph Duncan, who murdered the Groene children in Coeur d’ Alene, Idaho should be executed as quickly as possible.  This is an example where there is no doubt about the guilt, and the perpetrator is an adult and fully accountable for his actions.  

But I will never support killing a child, no matter what was done.  Everything evil that most of you consider part of his psyche was learned and can be unlearned.  

I would feel this way even if it was one of my family members or loved one.  I could see myself hating that child, but not for long.  Hatred harms the hater more than the hated, and I am wise to that (after a lifetime of much experience with it), and eventually would overcome it for my own benefit.  If an adult killed a family member I’d be for the death penalty, no questions.  But if it were a child, I’d eventually want to reach out to him/her to help them become something worthwhile.  I believe when it’s a child, there is a good possibility to mold them, or rehabilitate, them into something better.  

I’m reminded of how the Amish reacted to the family of the killer who murdered their daughters in one of their schools.  And I think that type of spirit is the best way to go.  It brings out the best in us, and can work a miracle for the child who committed the crime.    

Another example is Barry Loukatis. He walked into his high school class and shot to death a number of people, including his teacher.  Wikpedia describes his ‘reality’ at the time of his crimes as follows: 

“It was widely believed that Loukaitis had suffered severe bullying at school. Those who knew him claim that he complained of being beaten by other students, teased and harassed, and having his head stuffed in toilets. On one occasion, he was held down by one student while another student urinated on him. Loukaitis claimed that he only intended on killing Manuel Vela,[ and that the other deaths were accidental. Vela had allegedly taunted and humiliated Loukaitis. The latter also claimed that he wanted to enact revenge on Vela for calling him a &quot;fag&quot; a few days before the shooting. His deteriorating mental health and being bullied is believed to have caused Loukaitis to carry out his actions.”
Well, they threw away the key on this kid, and he will spend the rest of his life in prison without the possibility of parole.  And I see no good in that.  
The mother of one of his victims, forgave him once she understood his reality, and she has attempted to help him ever since – in the same spirit of the Amish.  
“Alice Fritz -- Describes heartbreak of losing her son to violence -- Throughout the next 18 months, many days were spent in court. The truth about Barry was heartbreaking: This boy who had killed Arnie was suffering. He was mentally and emotionally ill and filled with rage. His needs went unmet, his cries for help ignored and his threats dismissed. Barry did what he stated he would do. He went on a killing spree. Arnie was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Our precious boy was killed.”
And I have to believe that the psychiatrists and other professionals who would be part of this kid’s rehabilitation will know whether he eventually could ‘go out’ into society again, or whether he should not.  

That’s my opinion.  Nobody need agree with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not going to be swayed by hypothetical future events that can’t be foreseen.  Assumptions that I can’t know to be valid.  </p>
<p>I fully support the death penalty for any adult who commits a heinous crime such as this.  People like Joseph Duncan, who murdered the Groene children in Coeur d’ Alene, Idaho should be executed as quickly as possible.  This is an example where there is no doubt about the guilt, and the perpetrator is an adult and fully accountable for his actions.  </p>
<p>But I will never support killing a child, no matter what was done.  Everything evil that most of you consider part of his psyche was learned and can be unlearned.  </p>
<p>I would feel this way even if it was one of my family members or loved one.  I could see myself hating that child, but not for long.  Hatred harms the hater more than the hated, and I am wise to that (after a lifetime of much experience with it), and eventually would overcome it for my own benefit.  If an adult killed a family member I’d be for the death penalty, no questions.  But if it were a child, I’d eventually want to reach out to him/her to help them become something worthwhile.  I believe when it’s a child, there is a good possibility to mold them, or rehabilitate, them into something better.  </p>
<p>I’m reminded of how the Amish reacted to the family of the killer who murdered their daughters in one of their schools.  And I think that type of spirit is the best way to go.  It brings out the best in us, and can work a miracle for the child who committed the crime.    </p>
<p>Another example is Barry Loukatis. He walked into his high school class and shot to death a number of people, including his teacher.  Wikpedia describes his ‘reality’ at the time of his crimes as follows: </p>
<p>“It was widely believed that Loukaitis had suffered severe bullying at school. Those who knew him claim that he complained of being beaten by other students, teased and harassed, and having his head stuffed in toilets. On one occasion, he was held down by one student while another student urinated on him. Loukaitis claimed that he only intended on killing Manuel Vela,[ and that the other deaths were accidental. Vela had allegedly taunted and humiliated Loukaitis. The latter also claimed that he wanted to enact revenge on Vela for calling him a &#8220;fag&#8221; a few days before the shooting. His deteriorating mental health and being bullied is believed to have caused Loukaitis to carry out his actions.”<br />
Well, they threw away the key on this kid, and he will spend the rest of his life in prison without the possibility of parole.  And I see no good in that.<br />
The mother of one of his victims, forgave him once she understood his reality, and she has attempted to help him ever since – in the same spirit of the Amish.<br />
“Alice Fritz &#8212; Describes heartbreak of losing her son to violence &#8212; Throughout the next 18 months, many days were spent in court. The truth about Barry was heartbreaking: This boy who had killed Arnie was suffering. He was mentally and emotionally ill and filled with rage. His needs went unmet, his cries for help ignored and his threats dismissed. Barry did what he stated he would do. He went on a killing spree. Arnie was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Our precious boy was killed.”<br />
And I have to believe that the psychiatrists and other professionals who would be part of this kid’s rehabilitation will know whether he eventually could ‘go out’ into society again, or whether he should not.  </p>
<p>That’s my opinion.  Nobody need agree with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-judge-makes-wrong-call-in-mcinerney-trial/comment-page-4/#comment-69986</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 12:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8761#comment-69986</guid>
		<description>WHEN HE..... goes out and re-offends

WHEN HE..... raises a family that thinks just as he does

WHEN ITS... your family member or loved one that he kills you will perhaps think differently.

Besides there is nothing like setting a  good example to bullies and whackos alike... people gay or not are not to be murdered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WHEN HE&#8230;.. goes out and re-offends</p>
<p>WHEN HE&#8230;.. raises a family that thinks just as he does</p>
<p>WHEN ITS&#8230; your family member or loved one that he kills you will perhaps think differently.</p>
<p>Besides there is nothing like setting a  good example to bullies and whackos alike&#8230; people gay or not are not to be murdered.</p>
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		<title>By: RobertinWestbury</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-judge-makes-wrong-call-in-mcinerney-trial/comment-page-4/#comment-69970</link>
		<dc:creator>RobertinWestbury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 04:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8761#comment-69970</guid>
		<description>When I... when I... when I...  

Boy, you people just keep going on and on about &#039;when I was 14.&#039;  You weren&#039;t reared the same way.  You did not face what this boy had to face.  

And I&#039;ll say it again, nobody is claiming he didn&#039;t know right from wrong.  But he was still a child, and that means he didn&#039;t have the maturity to make sound decisions.  That is why people under 18 aren&#039;t allowed to make important decisions (and there are plenty over the age of 18 who aren&#039;t ready to either).  

Nobody wants to see this kid walk, or get off easy.  His crime was horrendous.  But I hate to be a part of a society that will throw away the key on a CHILD who might be helped enough to one day be a contributing member of society.  Or worse, to particiapte in a legalized murdering of him out of revenge.  He may never be rehabilitated, but I think it says something about us as a society to at least try. 

Mdk, nobody says he should be handheld, and nobody is making excuses for him.  We&#039;re just acknowledging the reality that he is a child and as a child he was not mature enough to make an adult decision and should not be treated as though he was.  

I am not ashamed of that.  But I think the rant on this thread to &#039;fry him&#039; is pathetic.  Those of you who want him dead or would lock him away and throw away the key are the ones who should be ashamed...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I&#8230; when I&#8230; when I&#8230;  </p>
<p>Boy, you people just keep going on and on about &#8216;when I was 14.&#8217;  You weren&#8217;t reared the same way.  You did not face what this boy had to face.  </p>
<p>And I&#8217;ll say it again, nobody is claiming he didn&#8217;t know right from wrong.  But he was still a child, and that means he didn&#8217;t have the maturity to make sound decisions.  That is why people under 18 aren&#8217;t allowed to make important decisions (and there are plenty over the age of 18 who aren&#8217;t ready to either).  </p>
<p>Nobody wants to see this kid walk, or get off easy.  His crime was horrendous.  But I hate to be a part of a society that will throw away the key on a CHILD who might be helped enough to one day be a contributing member of society.  Or worse, to particiapte in a legalized murdering of him out of revenge.  He may never be rehabilitated, but I think it says something about us as a society to at least try. </p>
<p>Mdk, nobody says he should be handheld, and nobody is making excuses for him.  We&#8217;re just acknowledging the reality that he is a child and as a child he was not mature enough to make an adult decision and should not be treated as though he was.  </p>
<p>I am not ashamed of that.  But I think the rant on this thread to &#8216;fry him&#8217; is pathetic.  Those of you who want him dead or would lock him away and throw away the key are the ones who should be ashamed&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Ryan Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-judge-makes-wrong-call-in-mcinerney-trial/comment-page-4/#comment-69959</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Ryan Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 01:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8761#comment-69959</guid>
		<description>I completely disagree that he&#039;s too young to be tried as an adult. When I was fourteen I was completely aware of my actions and the potential consequences of them. I had plenty of racist influences but I didn&#039;t go around murdering people. Anyone that tries to claim that a 14 year old isn&#039;t aware of their actions or responsible for them obviously at an age where they don&#039;t vividly remember being that age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely disagree that he&#8217;s too young to be tried as an adult. When I was fourteen I was completely aware of my actions and the potential consequences of them. I had plenty of racist influences but I didn&#8217;t go around murdering people. Anyone that tries to claim that a 14 year old isn&#8217;t aware of their actions or responsible for them obviously at an age where they don&#8217;t vividly remember being that age.</p>
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		<title>By: Drewski</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-judge-makes-wrong-call-in-mcinerney-trial/comment-page-4/#comment-69923</link>
		<dc:creator>Drewski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 19:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8761#comment-69923</guid>
		<description>It seems like most of you want this kid&#039;s blood because he killed a gay kid.  Not a kid, but a gay kid.  That&#039;s like saying that murdering a white man is worse than murdering a black man--it&#039;s making distinctions which carry some ugly truths.

There&#039;s no way this kid is just walking away.  Ironically, none of you who&#039;ve voiced that concern have looked at an adult analog.  More than a women have killed a husband or boyfriend and done no time because they were abused.  That&#039;s established legal precedent, and none of you question it, but you have bloodlust for a 15-year-old boy.

Also, this murder could&#039;ve been prevented if the responsible adults had intervened.  Children don&#039;t pop out of the womb spouting Nazi crap--it was force-fed to McInerney by his father.  Some of you forget that his father had the grace to die before facing felony charges for shooting his wife.  That was only one of the felonies he was facing, not to mention an equally violent past.  No child comes through that unmarked, yet none of you seem especially concerned by it.  It&#039;s adults who turn children into monsters (with a very few exceptions).  You&#039;re collectively so eager to see &quot;justice&quot; (read: vengeance) meted out that you ignore the larger truth--there&#039;re other killers being bred by abusive parents right now.  Not relevant?  Yes it is.  

McInerney may be too damaged to rejoin society.  That damage turned him into a murderer--he didn&#039;t start that way.  He didn&#039;t choose to be abused and brainwashed.  He&#039;s been turned into something which is too dangerous to unleash on society, but it could&#039;ve been prevented.  Now we&#039;re all stuck dealing with the consequences of his abuse.  He will pay, but there&#039;s a broad swath of damage and wrong beyond Lawrence King&#039;s murder.  It&#039;d be healthy for some of you to at least acknowledge that.  Otherwise it&#039;s like I said before--you know a certain percentage of kids will be so damaged that they&#039;ll commit violent criminal acts, so if you&#039;re not going to intervene, you might as well pull them out of the classroom and shoot them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems like most of you want this kid&#8217;s blood because he killed a gay kid.  Not a kid, but a gay kid.  That&#8217;s like saying that murdering a white man is worse than murdering a black man&#8211;it&#8217;s making distinctions which carry some ugly truths.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no way this kid is just walking away.  Ironically, none of you who&#8217;ve voiced that concern have looked at an adult analog.  More than a women have killed a husband or boyfriend and done no time because they were abused.  That&#8217;s established legal precedent, and none of you question it, but you have bloodlust for a 15-year-old boy.</p>
<p>Also, this murder could&#8217;ve been prevented if the responsible adults had intervened.  Children don&#8217;t pop out of the womb spouting Nazi crap&#8211;it was force-fed to McInerney by his father.  Some of you forget that his father had the grace to die before facing felony charges for shooting his wife.  That was only one of the felonies he was facing, not to mention an equally violent past.  No child comes through that unmarked, yet none of you seem especially concerned by it.  It&#8217;s adults who turn children into monsters (with a very few exceptions).  You&#8217;re collectively so eager to see &#8220;justice&#8221; (read: vengeance) meted out that you ignore the larger truth&#8211;there&#8217;re other killers being bred by abusive parents right now.  Not relevant?  Yes it is.  </p>
<p>McInerney may be too damaged to rejoin society.  That damage turned him into a murderer&#8211;he didn&#8217;t start that way.  He didn&#8217;t choose to be abused and brainwashed.  He&#8217;s been turned into something which is too dangerous to unleash on society, but it could&#8217;ve been prevented.  Now we&#8217;re all stuck dealing with the consequences of his abuse.  He will pay, but there&#8217;s a broad swath of damage and wrong beyond Lawrence King&#8217;s murder.  It&#8217;d be healthy for some of you to at least acknowledge that.  Otherwise it&#8217;s like I said before&#8211;you know a certain percentage of kids will be so damaged that they&#8217;ll commit violent criminal acts, so if you&#8217;re not going to intervene, you might as well pull them out of the classroom and shoot them.</p>
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