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	<title>Comments on: Ruby-Sachs: Inauguration and Religion</title>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-inauguration-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-40499</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 01:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4942#comment-40499</guid>
		<description>Out of curiosity, was the amount of religion in this ceremony more than the last few? Say, Jimmy Carter forward.  

I&#039;d be willing to bet there&#039;s been a prayer at the beginning and end of all of those in recent memory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Out of curiosity, was the amount of religion in this ceremony more than the last few? Say, Jimmy Carter forward.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d be willing to bet there&#8217;s been a prayer at the beginning and end of all of those in recent memory.</p>
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		<title>By: Rodney Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-inauguration-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-40357</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodney Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 00:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4942#comment-40357</guid>
		<description>The amount of religion in this inauguration was simply overkill. Rick Warren, who is nothing less than a terrorist, should never even be welcomed at the inauguration most less as a pastor doing the invocation. 

The Jesus-centric, one God-centric praying and talking is not as inclusive to Christians as it is offensive towards those who don&#039;t hold Christian beliefs. I myself am a Polytheist and am spiritual and faithful in my own personal private life. However, I am staunchly secular, believing that religion is a private thing, much like intimacy between partners. I believe when someone starts talking about God/Jesus/Goddess/Allah in public and especially in government it is very tacky, at worst it is akin to sexual harassment. 

Barack Hussein Obama is very naive when it comes to the divisiveness and unreasonable hatred which comes from religion. His experience with Christianity was one of the UCC, but his experience is his experience alone. Most Christians are nothing like the UCC, in fact they reserve nothing but disdain for that denomination. Morgan will come in here and rattle off about his &quot;racially diverse, gay welcoming church which makes hats for homeless people&quot; and not to take away from Obama&#039;s or Morgan&#039;s experiences, but not everyone&#039;s experience with religion, particularly christianity is the same and this is something people like Obama doesn&#039;t understand. Gay people didn&#039;t need Gene Robinson, we needed a President to understand that for many of us, religion, particularly Christianity has been shoved down our throat enough in our lives and that it&#039;s disrespectful to continue to do it. 

Religion has its place, but the more we yield public space and government to the church/mosque/synagogue the more our freedoms will be eroded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The amount of religion in this inauguration was simply overkill. Rick Warren, who is nothing less than a terrorist, should never even be welcomed at the inauguration most less as a pastor doing the invocation. </p>
<p>The Jesus-centric, one God-centric praying and talking is not as inclusive to Christians as it is offensive towards those who don&#8217;t hold Christian beliefs. I myself am a Polytheist and am spiritual and faithful in my own personal private life. However, I am staunchly secular, believing that religion is a private thing, much like intimacy between partners. I believe when someone starts talking about God/Jesus/Goddess/Allah in public and especially in government it is very tacky, at worst it is akin to sexual harassment. </p>
<p>Barack Hussein Obama is very naive when it comes to the divisiveness and unreasonable hatred which comes from religion. His experience with Christianity was one of the UCC, but his experience is his experience alone. Most Christians are nothing like the UCC, in fact they reserve nothing but disdain for that denomination. Morgan will come in here and rattle off about his &#8220;racially diverse, gay welcoming church which makes hats for homeless people&#8221; and not to take away from Obama&#8217;s or Morgan&#8217;s experiences, but not everyone&#8217;s experience with religion, particularly christianity is the same and this is something people like Obama doesn&#8217;t understand. Gay people didn&#8217;t need Gene Robinson, we needed a President to understand that for many of us, religion, particularly Christianity has been shoved down our throat enough in our lives and that it&#8217;s disrespectful to continue to do it. </p>
<p>Religion has its place, but the more we yield public space and government to the church/mosque/synagogue the more our freedoms will be eroded.</p>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-inauguration-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-40115</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4942#comment-40115</guid>
		<description>Did you see the same Rick Warren praying that I did? He practically choked on the language of love and acceptance that he spoke but obviously didn&#039;t believe. He was downright pushy in his Jesus-centrism, however. It offended me and I&#039;m a Christian!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you see the same Rick Warren praying that I did? He practically choked on the language of love and acceptance that he spoke but obviously didn&#8217;t believe. He was downright pushy in his Jesus-centrism, however. It offended me and I&#8217;m a Christian!</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Guinnessey</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-inauguration-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-40076</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Guinnessey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4942#comment-40076</guid>
		<description>I am for doing away with all and any prayers at presidential inaugurals. Just look at the problems this inaugural caused with Rick Warren, Bishop Robinson and others. Too often these prayers turn into mini-sermons and fail to remember that the USA is a secular country. Just have a simple swearing in ceremony. No pomp or circumstance and get on with the difficult business of governance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am for doing away with all and any prayers at presidential inaugurals. Just look at the problems this inaugural caused with Rick Warren, Bishop Robinson and others. Too often these prayers turn into mini-sermons and fail to remember that the USA is a secular country. Just have a simple swearing in ceremony. No pomp or circumstance and get on with the difficult business of governance.</p>
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		<title>By: JayC</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-inauguration-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-40057</link>
		<dc:creator>JayC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4942#comment-40057</guid>
		<description>America is most certainly NOT a country founded on religion.  That is an ignorant myth.  The founding fathers had every opportunity to make this a christian nation and specifically chose NOT to do so.  Colonies had to relinquish their official religions in order to become states.  If you need further evidence, take the 10 commandments one by one, and show how they are included in US law as absolutes.  You can&#039;t do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>America is most certainly NOT a country founded on religion.  That is an ignorant myth.  The founding fathers had every opportunity to make this a christian nation and specifically chose NOT to do so.  Colonies had to relinquish their official religions in order to become states.  If you need further evidence, take the 10 commandments one by one, and show how they are included in US law as absolutes.  You can&#8217;t do it.</p>
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		<title>By: H. (Bart) Vincelette</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-inauguration-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-40042</link>
		<dc:creator>H. (Bart) Vincelette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4942#comment-40042</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to add a comment on the premise that America &quot;may be a country founded on religion.&quot;The actual history ; which is well documented is : the &#039;pilgrims&#039; fled Britain and religious persecution , looking for a place where they could practice their faith in freedom. And they found it , .... in Holland. But what they also found was freedom of religion for all faiths , which they were not about to tolerate , as they were convinced they had the only truth. So , they travelled to the New World where there would be no competition other than the &#039;first peoples&#039; , who were regarded as savages. ( Side item: It took the Vatican a century to determine whether or not the native populations were true human beings ; therefore capable of salvation.)Let&#039;s face it : If Christ were to re-appear tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. , conservative Christians would be so disgusted with his liberal compassion ; they&#039;d be turning him over to the INS by noon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to add a comment on the premise that America &#8220;may be a country founded on religion.&#8221;The actual history ; which is well documented is : the &#8216;pilgrims&#8217; fled Britain and religious persecution , looking for a place where they could practice their faith in freedom. And they found it , &#8230;. in Holland. But what they also found was freedom of religion for all faiths , which they were not about to tolerate , as they were convinced they had the only truth. So , they travelled to the New World where there would be no competition other than the &#8216;first peoples&#8217; , who were regarded as savages. ( Side item: It took the Vatican a century to determine whether or not the native populations were true human beings ; therefore capable of salvation.)Let&#8217;s face it : If Christ were to re-appear tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. , conservative Christians would be so disgusted with his liberal compassion ; they&#8217;d be turning him over to the INS by noon.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-inauguration-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-40015</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4942#comment-40015</guid>
		<description>What sucks in my opinion is that Warren&#039;s boring pray overshadowed what, in my opnion was one of the most beautiful prayers I&#039;ve heard in a long time given by Rev. Joseph Lowery.  It was the perfect end to the ceremony. 

(I&#039;m a different Jonathan than the one who previously posted just in case you were wondering  haha)
=======


a portion of the Reverend&#039;s prayer:

Bless President Barack, First Lady Michelle. Look over our little angelic Sasha and Malia.

We go now to walk together as children, pledging that we won&#039;t get weary in the difficult days ahead. We know you will not leave us alone.

With your hands of power and your heart of love, help us then, now, Lord, to work for that day when nations shall not lift up sword against nation, when tanks will be beaten into tractors, when every man and every woman shall sit under his or her own vine and fig tree and none shall be afraid, when justice will roll down like waters and righteousness as a mighty stream.

Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their labors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get in back, when brown can stick around ... when yellow will be mellow ... when the red man can get ahead, man; and when white will embrace what is right. That all those who do justice and love mercy say Amen. 

=====

I don&#039;t think you have to be a religious person or even believe in God to hope for the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What sucks in my opinion is that Warren&#8217;s boring pray overshadowed what, in my opnion was one of the most beautiful prayers I&#8217;ve heard in a long time given by Rev. Joseph Lowery.  It was the perfect end to the ceremony. </p>
<p>(I&#8217;m a different Jonathan than the one who previously posted just in case you were wondering  haha)<br />
=======</p>
<p>a portion of the Reverend&#8217;s prayer:</p>
<p>Bless President Barack, First Lady Michelle. Look over our little angelic Sasha and Malia.</p>
<p>We go now to walk together as children, pledging that we won&#8217;t get weary in the difficult days ahead. We know you will not leave us alone.</p>
<p>With your hands of power and your heart of love, help us then, now, Lord, to work for that day when nations shall not lift up sword against nation, when tanks will be beaten into tractors, when every man and every woman shall sit under his or her own vine and fig tree and none shall be afraid, when justice will roll down like waters and righteousness as a mighty stream.</p>
<p>Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their labors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get in back, when brown can stick around &#8230; when yellow will be mellow &#8230; when the red man can get ahead, man; and when white will embrace what is right. That all those who do justice and love mercy say Amen. </p>
<p>=====</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you have to be a religious person or even believe in God to hope for the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-inauguration-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-40014</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4942#comment-40014</guid>
		<description>I take issue with a number of the comments here, and have the following responses:

1) I voted to elect a President who was known to have a religious background.  Thus, I expected that he would bring some element of his background into the government that he now heads.  

2) Rev. Warren is NOT the President of the United States, and CANNOT order me to do anything.  Thus, I am not &quot;shocked&quot; nor &quot;offended&quot; by his speech which spoke to the religious beliefs of part of our fellow citizens.  The President did not say that Rev. Warrent spoke for him, nor for the country, nor that his words would function as a mandate upon which the government would function on a go-forward basis.  He is only a part of our country, akin to Aretha Franklin and the other participants of the inaugural event, and I acceed only his right to participate, as does (I presume) the President.  

3) As an American, I relish the opportunity to hear ALL of our citizens opinions, and assume that I have the opportunity to voice my own.  I prefer not to have the Rev. Warrens of our country silenced so that we can live in a imagined safety infringed upon by the actuality of non-spoken hatred.  Rather, let me have the opportunity to say &quot;I hear you, Rev. Warren, and disagree with you.&quot;  It is only by the ability to discourse with those that disagree with us that we can hope to gain the higher ground and convince the masses that our perspective is reasonable.

4) Finally, the United States of America does NOT need to ignore all religions and spirtuality to appreciate the actuality of those in our citizenry that are athiest or agnostic.  There is a difference between speaking one&#039;s faith and forcing one&#039;s faith on others.  We must cherish the former, and fight to the death against the latter, as our forefathers would have done and did do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take issue with a number of the comments here, and have the following responses:</p>
<p>1) I voted to elect a President who was known to have a religious background.  Thus, I expected that he would bring some element of his background into the government that he now heads.  </p>
<p>2) Rev. Warren is NOT the President of the United States, and CANNOT order me to do anything.  Thus, I am not &#8220;shocked&#8221; nor &#8220;offended&#8221; by his speech which spoke to the religious beliefs of part of our fellow citizens.  The President did not say that Rev. Warrent spoke for him, nor for the country, nor that his words would function as a mandate upon which the government would function on a go-forward basis.  He is only a part of our country, akin to Aretha Franklin and the other participants of the inaugural event, and I acceed only his right to participate, as does (I presume) the President.  </p>
<p>3) As an American, I relish the opportunity to hear ALL of our citizens opinions, and assume that I have the opportunity to voice my own.  I prefer not to have the Rev. Warrens of our country silenced so that we can live in a imagined safety infringed upon by the actuality of non-spoken hatred.  Rather, let me have the opportunity to say &#8220;I hear you, Rev. Warren, and disagree with you.&#8221;  It is only by the ability to discourse with those that disagree with us that we can hope to gain the higher ground and convince the masses that our perspective is reasonable.</p>
<p>4) Finally, the United States of America does NOT need to ignore all religions and spirtuality to appreciate the actuality of those in our citizenry that are athiest or agnostic.  There is a difference between speaking one&#8217;s faith and forcing one&#8217;s faith on others.  We must cherish the former, and fight to the death against the latter, as our forefathers would have done and did do.</p>
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		<title>By: Bud Burgoon-Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-inauguration-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-39999</link>
		<dc:creator>Bud Burgoon-Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4942#comment-39999</guid>
		<description>That &quot;prayer&quot; was ANYTHING but harmless. 

It was TOXIC to Jews, Jehovah&#039;s Witnesses and Mormons, who do not believe in the divinity of Jesus. 

It was TOXIC to Lutherans, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox, who believe that salvation is a life-long process, and not dependent upon a one-time statement that Jesus is one&#039;s personal Lord and Saviour.

Tt was DEFINITELY TOXIC to ALL non-kristianists ... Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, Zoroastrian (yes, there is a Zoroastrian community in the US), animists, followers of Santeria, Wicca ... 

Tt was TOXIC to those who do not believe in a Supreme Being.

IT WAS MOST TOXIC TO THE FIRST AMENDMENT OF OUR CONSTITUTION.

Reciting the protestant version of the Lord&#039;s Prayer at the end was a slap in the face to ANYONE who doesn&#039;t believe PRECISELY what &quot;the Rev&#039;d&quot; Rick Warren believes.

It&#039;s HIGH TIME, after 200+ years, that we make the promise of freedom FROM religion enshrined in the First Amendment A REALITY.

Bud Burgoon-Clark
a card-carrying queer Episcopalian
who was nevertheless HIGHLY OFFENDED
San Diego CA USA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That &#8220;prayer&#8221; was ANYTHING but harmless. </p>
<p>It was TOXIC to Jews, Jehovah&#8217;s Witnesses and Mormons, who do not believe in the divinity of Jesus. </p>
<p>It was TOXIC to Lutherans, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox, who believe that salvation is a life-long process, and not dependent upon a one-time statement that Jesus is one&#8217;s personal Lord and Saviour.</p>
<p>Tt was DEFINITELY TOXIC to ALL non-kristianists &#8230; Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, Zoroastrian (yes, there is a Zoroastrian community in the US), animists, followers of Santeria, Wicca &#8230; </p>
<p>Tt was TOXIC to those who do not believe in a Supreme Being.</p>
<p>IT WAS MOST TOXIC TO THE FIRST AMENDMENT OF OUR CONSTITUTION.</p>
<p>Reciting the protestant version of the Lord&#8217;s Prayer at the end was a slap in the face to ANYONE who doesn&#8217;t believe PRECISELY what &#8220;the Rev&#8217;d&#8221; Rick Warren believes.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s HIGH TIME, after 200+ years, that we make the promise of freedom FROM religion enshrined in the First Amendment A REALITY.</p>
<p>Bud Burgoon-Clark<br />
a card-carrying queer Episcopalian<br />
who was nevertheless HIGHLY OFFENDED<br />
San Diego CA USA</p>
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		<title>By: Morgan</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-inauguration-and-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-39938</link>
		<dc:creator>Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4942#comment-39938</guid>
		<description>Dave W,
I am not sure at what point &quot;so help me God&quot; came in.
But since it has been used by as many as 14th presidents, at least some precident has been established for using those 4 words.
Thusly,
It should be a president&#039;s right to decide whether he/she wants to utter, &quot;so help me God&quot;. Being a &quot;sheeple&quot; does not mean that a person isn&#039;t progressive and progay.
If a President feels those 4 words at the end of the oath is appropriate for his belief that she/he wants address God and to give God the credit for being there that day,
or would rather leave those words out, that should be solely the President&#039;s perogative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave W,<br />
I am not sure at what point &#8220;so help me God&#8221; came in.<br />
But since it has been used by as many as 14th presidents, at least some precident has been established for using those 4 words.<br />
Thusly,<br />
It should be a president&#8217;s right to decide whether he/she wants to utter, &#8220;so help me God&#8221;. Being a &#8220;sheeple&#8221; does not mean that a person isn&#8217;t progressive and progay.<br />
If a President feels those 4 words at the end of the oath is appropriate for his belief that she/he wants address God and to give God the credit for being there that day,<br />
or would rather leave those words out, that should be solely the President&#8217;s perogative.</p>
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