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	<title>Comments on: Ruby-Sachs: Abortions Fly Out the Window</title>
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		<title>By: Christopher Winston</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-abortions-fly-out-the-window/comment-page-3/#comment-76718</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Winston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10690#comment-76718</guid>
		<description>I also have to agree with some of the other comments earlier. Many times, we treat liberal as if we are all on the same page with all issues and we are not. I am open-minded about the pro-choice/pro-life debate but abortion rights are not a health issue in most case, but a quality of life issue. I could understand this case in where the life of the mother is in danger, but that is not what is being asked here. You are asking tax payers to pay for voluntary abortions. I don&#039;t think many Americans, even many liberals, can stomach forcing everyone nationally to pay for such, some who would go to there grave before supporting such. We could even argue that sex-changes being covered for the transgendered is a better candidate for coverage here because it truly deals with mental health, a health issue. Being pregnant at an inconvenient is just not a health issue. 

Obama stated first when he became president, that his goal was to reduce the amount of unwanted pregnancies first, not expanding abortion rights. This is the better focus that we need to have at this point. The same social issues that keep some of these woman from access to abortion, are also the same issues that lead to them getting pregnant in the first place, so our focus here my be putting the cart before the horse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also have to agree with some of the other comments earlier. Many times, we treat liberal as if we are all on the same page with all issues and we are not. I am open-minded about the pro-choice/pro-life debate but abortion rights are not a health issue in most case, but a quality of life issue. I could understand this case in where the life of the mother is in danger, but that is not what is being asked here. You are asking tax payers to pay for voluntary abortions. I don&#8217;t think many Americans, even many liberals, can stomach forcing everyone nationally to pay for such, some who would go to there grave before supporting such. We could even argue that sex-changes being covered for the transgendered is a better candidate for coverage here because it truly deals with mental health, a health issue. Being pregnant at an inconvenient is just not a health issue. </p>
<p>Obama stated first when he became president, that his goal was to reduce the amount of unwanted pregnancies first, not expanding abortion rights. This is the better focus that we need to have at this point. The same social issues that keep some of these woman from access to abortion, are also the same issues that lead to them getting pregnant in the first place, so our focus here my be putting the cart before the horse.</p>
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		<title>By: Facebook User</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-abortions-fly-out-the-window/comment-page-2/#comment-76692</link>
		<dc:creator>Facebook User</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10690#comment-76692</guid>
		<description>This situation is a lot like when the original hate crimes bill originally put forward into Congress. Barney Frank believed the bill would not be passed with protection for transgender people, so that provision was dropped. The backlash from this decision prohibited the bill from passing until it was reintroduced this year. For the sake of compromise, Frank dropped a key provision of the hate crimes bill, ultimately leading to the downfall of the bill he was trying to save.

The same thing is happening in this instance. Democrats are willing to compromise women&#039;s rights to introduce health care, believing there will be something to fix it later. How can we progress while conceding previous progress? I agree health care is a very important issue, but with this amendment, would the concessions be worth it. Years would be spent trying to gain back the footing lost through the addition of this amendment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This situation is a lot like when the original hate crimes bill originally put forward into Congress. Barney Frank believed the bill would not be passed with protection for transgender people, so that provision was dropped. The backlash from this decision prohibited the bill from passing until it was reintroduced this year. For the sake of compromise, Frank dropped a key provision of the hate crimes bill, ultimately leading to the downfall of the bill he was trying to save.</p>
<p>The same thing is happening in this instance. Democrats are willing to compromise women&#8217;s rights to introduce health care, believing there will be something to fix it later. How can we progress while conceding previous progress? I agree health care is a very important issue, but with this amendment, would the concessions be worth it. Years would be spent trying to gain back the footing lost through the addition of this amendment.</p>
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		<title>By: Isaac</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-abortions-fly-out-the-window/comment-page-2/#comment-76633</link>
		<dc:creator>Isaac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10690#comment-76633</guid>
		<description>Sarrellec Said: &quot;Men should have the same right to choose to not be a parent during the first trimester of pregnancy. Pay attention. I’m not saying men should have the right to tell a woman to have an abortion. Men should be able to make the CHOICE–POST-PREGNANCY–to be a parent or not.
During the first three months of pregnancy.&quot;

I&#039;m sorry, but why would there be an hysterical backlash to that?  You&#039;re basically saying that men should have rights they already have.  No one can force a man to be a parent.  It is a choice a man can make before he has sex with a woman, after she becomes pregnant, or after the child is born.

If you&#039;re trying to say that men have no right to decide whether or not their child will be born after conception, you&#039;re right.  Sorry, but unless and until men are able to become pregnant they don&#039;t get to make that decision.  They have a voice, and I will never buy into the argument that men have absolutely no right to express an opinion about abortion or say what they want a woman to do about a baby once conceived.  They have the right to say what they want, but the woman has the final decision.

There is true inequality in only one situation I can think of.  That is where a man and woman have sex, the man uses protection, the woman becomes pregnant, the man says he does not want a child, the woman decides to give birth, and for the next eighteen years the man is forced to pay for that child.  Such a situation places an unreasonable burden on a man who has been reasonable in his actions.  However, that&#039;s part of the risk you take if you have heterosexual sex.

If you bring a life into the world, wanted or unwanted, you have to take responsibility for it.  Unfortunately, the law can only compel men and women to take limited responsibility, including making financial contributions.  The law cannot compel either to actually be a parent to that child.  The law cannot compel either to have any form of contact with that child.  The law cannot compel either to want, like or love that child.

So I&#039;m afraid your argument is without foundation.  Every man has a choice at any time whether or not he wants to be a parent - he just doesn&#039;t have a choice as to whether a woman he has had sex with gives birth to his child.  And that is a choice no man should ever have the right to make.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarrellec Said: &#8220;Men should have the same right to choose to not be a parent during the first trimester of pregnancy. Pay attention. I’m not saying men should have the right to tell a woman to have an abortion. Men should be able to make the CHOICE–POST-PREGNANCY–to be a parent or not.<br />
During the first three months of pregnancy.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry, but why would there be an hysterical backlash to that?  You&#8217;re basically saying that men should have rights they already have.  No one can force a man to be a parent.  It is a choice a man can make before he has sex with a woman, after she becomes pregnant, or after the child is born.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re trying to say that men have no right to decide whether or not their child will be born after conception, you&#8217;re right.  Sorry, but unless and until men are able to become pregnant they don&#8217;t get to make that decision.  They have a voice, and I will never buy into the argument that men have absolutely no right to express an opinion about abortion or say what they want a woman to do about a baby once conceived.  They have the right to say what they want, but the woman has the final decision.</p>
<p>There is true inequality in only one situation I can think of.  That is where a man and woman have sex, the man uses protection, the woman becomes pregnant, the man says he does not want a child, the woman decides to give birth, and for the next eighteen years the man is forced to pay for that child.  Such a situation places an unreasonable burden on a man who has been reasonable in his actions.  However, that&#8217;s part of the risk you take if you have heterosexual sex.</p>
<p>If you bring a life into the world, wanted or unwanted, you have to take responsibility for it.  Unfortunately, the law can only compel men and women to take limited responsibility, including making financial contributions.  The law cannot compel either to actually be a parent to that child.  The law cannot compel either to have any form of contact with that child.  The law cannot compel either to want, like or love that child.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m afraid your argument is without foundation.  Every man has a choice at any time whether or not he wants to be a parent &#8211; he just doesn&#8217;t have a choice as to whether a woman he has had sex with gives birth to his child.  And that is a choice no man should ever have the right to make.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarrellec</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-abortions-fly-out-the-window/comment-page-2/#comment-76619</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarrellec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10690#comment-76619</guid>
		<description>Oh yeah...as for Democrats and Obamarama selling us out.
Is anyone really surprised?
Even MSNBC continues to harp on the conservatives and Repugnicans who have been bought out by the insurance industry to scuttle national health care.
EVEN THOUGH the Repugnicans are a minority and it is the Democrat Reps and Sens who have been bought out by the insurance industry who are the real culprits in the destruction of national healthcare.
With a clear majority, it is obviously the Dems who have been bought, bribed, grafted, who have ruined national healthcare.
Isn&#039;t it interesting how we went from universal national healthcare to healthcare INSURANCE reform?
Talk about how the red herring became the strawman which became the subject.
So we learn the Obamarama and Dem Reps and Sens are just as in the pocket of industrial multi-millionaires as anyone else.
I&#039;m soooooo shocked.
Oh!  I know!  Just make sure to VOTE during the next election!  THAT will change everything!
Wake up folks!  The ONLY people who have any power in this country are the people with the money.  That&#039;s the way this country works.
Secondary education for the non-rich results in debt and a hard-pressed credit rating by which a person&#039;s employment is based.  So, even if you manage to get through college, you&#039;re NEVER going to get that million-dollar job, because you&#039;re credit rating isn&#039;t good enough and you didn&#039;t have the time in college to indulge in all those extra-curricular activities--because you had to work--which pad out a resume for those really big jobs which have been reserved for the rich children of the rich people who paid their way through school so they didn&#039;t have to work and could be on the football team and the student body government and the newspaper and all that good stuff.
Does it make you feel oh-so-good knowing that the doctor you&#039;re seeing tomorrow isn&#039;t a doctor because he&#039;s really good at it--mostly he&#039;s a doctor &#039;cause Daddy could afford it.
Meanwhile, the person that would&#039;ve been the best doctor in the country is stocking shelves at Wal-Mart because his Daddy couldn&#039;t afford college.
And for the rest of this post, just fill in all the other crap we have to put up with in this oligarchy that no one else in any of the other 25 first world industrialized nations has to put up with because every other one of them is a socialist parlaimentary democracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah&#8230;as for Democrats and Obamarama selling us out.<br />
Is anyone really surprised?<br />
Even MSNBC continues to harp on the conservatives and Repugnicans who have been bought out by the insurance industry to scuttle national health care.<br />
EVEN THOUGH the Repugnicans are a minority and it is the Democrat Reps and Sens who have been bought out by the insurance industry who are the real culprits in the destruction of national healthcare.<br />
With a clear majority, it is obviously the Dems who have been bought, bribed, grafted, who have ruined national healthcare.<br />
Isn&#8217;t it interesting how we went from universal national healthcare to healthcare INSURANCE reform?<br />
Talk about how the red herring became the strawman which became the subject.<br />
So we learn the Obamarama and Dem Reps and Sens are just as in the pocket of industrial multi-millionaires as anyone else.<br />
I&#8217;m soooooo shocked.<br />
Oh!  I know!  Just make sure to VOTE during the next election!  THAT will change everything!<br />
Wake up folks!  The ONLY people who have any power in this country are the people with the money.  That&#8217;s the way this country works.<br />
Secondary education for the non-rich results in debt and a hard-pressed credit rating by which a person&#8217;s employment is based.  So, even if you manage to get through college, you&#8217;re NEVER going to get that million-dollar job, because you&#8217;re credit rating isn&#8217;t good enough and you didn&#8217;t have the time in college to indulge in all those extra-curricular activities&#8211;because you had to work&#8211;which pad out a resume for those really big jobs which have been reserved for the rich children of the rich people who paid their way through school so they didn&#8217;t have to work and could be on the football team and the student body government and the newspaper and all that good stuff.<br />
Does it make you feel oh-so-good knowing that the doctor you&#8217;re seeing tomorrow isn&#8217;t a doctor because he&#8217;s really good at it&#8211;mostly he&#8217;s a doctor &#8217;cause Daddy could afford it.<br />
Meanwhile, the person that would&#8217;ve been the best doctor in the country is stocking shelves at Wal-Mart because his Daddy couldn&#8217;t afford college.<br />
And for the rest of this post, just fill in all the other crap we have to put up with in this oligarchy that no one else in any of the other 25 first world industrialized nations has to put up with because every other one of them is a socialist parlaimentary democracy.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarrellec</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-abortions-fly-out-the-window/comment-page-2/#comment-76618</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarrellec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10690#comment-76618</guid>
		<description>We&#039;re all for equality, right?
One for all and all for one and ALL people should have the SAME rights, yeah?
Okay...watch this spot for the backlash of hysteria when I propose this:
Men should have the same right to choose to not be a parent during the first trimester of pregnancy.
Pay attention.  I&#039;m not saying men should have the right to tell a woman to have an abortion.
Men should be able to make the CHOICE--POST-PREGNANCY--to be a parent or not.
During the first three months of pregnancy.
Of course, this is dependent on being notified that there is a pregnancy before the first tri-mester is over.
If not notified, then the right extends indefinitely.
Once notified during the first tri-mester, the man can simply file a legal declaration of whether they choose to be a parent or not.
Nothing to do with the woman.  No making choices for the woman.  She can still do whatever she wants.  Under Roe V Wade, she has the choice to become a parent or not, again, POST-PREGNANCY, that she has now.
She can choose to abort, carry to term and put up for adoption, or keep.
He can choose to be a parent or not as well.
Now, if anyone chooses to answer this post, the majority will point out that the man already has the SAME RIGHT to choose to be a parent or not--by choosing to not have sex.
Those who will make this argument will intentionally omit the part about choosing to be a parent POST-IMPREGNATION.
As it stands now, a woman can choose to be a parent or not during the first tri-mester of pregnancy.
A man can not.
This is NOT equal.
Equal is both people having the same right during the same time period during the same situation--the first three months AFTER impregnation.
So, all those folks who support a woman&#039;s right to CHOOSE--how about a MAN&#039;S right to choose?
Personally, I think the thunderclap we would all hear should such a law of true equality pass would be the sound of thousands of female thighs slamming together.
Think of all the abortions that would never happen.
When are breeders simply going to come to terms with the virtually unavoidable side-effects of their heterosexual lust?
As for abortion itself?
Personally, I think men making decisions regarding abortion is beyond ridiculous.
However, men should be allowed to make decisions for themselves post-impregnation as well.
Being gay, however, it doesn&#039;t really mean that much to me.
Poor poor breeder boys.  What they have to put up with and go through because of their addiction to that feminine...ugh...orifice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re all for equality, right?<br />
One for all and all for one and ALL people should have the SAME rights, yeah?<br />
Okay&#8230;watch this spot for the backlash of hysteria when I propose this:<br />
Men should have the same right to choose to not be a parent during the first trimester of pregnancy.<br />
Pay attention.  I&#8217;m not saying men should have the right to tell a woman to have an abortion.<br />
Men should be able to make the CHOICE&#8211;POST-PREGNANCY&#8211;to be a parent or not.<br />
During the first three months of pregnancy.<br />
Of course, this is dependent on being notified that there is a pregnancy before the first tri-mester is over.<br />
If not notified, then the right extends indefinitely.<br />
Once notified during the first tri-mester, the man can simply file a legal declaration of whether they choose to be a parent or not.<br />
Nothing to do with the woman.  No making choices for the woman.  She can still do whatever she wants.  Under Roe V Wade, she has the choice to become a parent or not, again, POST-PREGNANCY, that she has now.<br />
She can choose to abort, carry to term and put up for adoption, or keep.<br />
He can choose to be a parent or not as well.<br />
Now, if anyone chooses to answer this post, the majority will point out that the man already has the SAME RIGHT to choose to be a parent or not&#8211;by choosing to not have sex.<br />
Those who will make this argument will intentionally omit the part about choosing to be a parent POST-IMPREGNATION.<br />
As it stands now, a woman can choose to be a parent or not during the first tri-mester of pregnancy.<br />
A man can not.<br />
This is NOT equal.<br />
Equal is both people having the same right during the same time period during the same situation&#8211;the first three months AFTER impregnation.<br />
So, all those folks who support a woman&#8217;s right to CHOOSE&#8211;how about a MAN&#8217;S right to choose?<br />
Personally, I think the thunderclap we would all hear should such a law of true equality pass would be the sound of thousands of female thighs slamming together.<br />
Think of all the abortions that would never happen.<br />
When are breeders simply going to come to terms with the virtually unavoidable side-effects of their heterosexual lust?<br />
As for abortion itself?<br />
Personally, I think men making decisions regarding abortion is beyond ridiculous.<br />
However, men should be allowed to make decisions for themselves post-impregnation as well.<br />
Being gay, however, it doesn&#8217;t really mean that much to me.<br />
Poor poor breeder boys.  What they have to put up with and go through because of their addiction to that feminine&#8230;ugh&#8230;orifice.</p>
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		<title>By: laughwithrage</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-abortions-fly-out-the-window/comment-page-2/#comment-76610</link>
		<dc:creator>laughwithrage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:08:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10690#comment-76610</guid>
		<description>Bobweekend, you&#039;re an idiot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bobweekend, you&#8217;re an idiot.</p>
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		<title>By: Yhitzak</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-abortions-fly-out-the-window/comment-page-2/#comment-76600</link>
		<dc:creator>Yhitzak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10690#comment-76600</guid>
		<description>Regardless of any person&#039;s feelings about abortion as a practice, there is a reason it is legal. Making abortion illegal does not stop it, it makes it unsafe and ultimately takes away any choice. Legal abortion is a two-way street: it allows women to make the choice to abort and it prevents them from being forced to abort. How many girls and women were sent to Mexico, England, or other countries to have abortions that they didn&#039;t want in the days prior to Roe v. Wade? More than anyone will ever know.

Although Ms. Ruby-Sachs is one of the worst writers I have ever seen in any sort of publication, she does manage to make viable points. This isn&#039;t a gay issue OR a straight issue, it&#039;s a human issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regardless of any person&#8217;s feelings about abortion as a practice, there is a reason it is legal. Making abortion illegal does not stop it, it makes it unsafe and ultimately takes away any choice. Legal abortion is a two-way street: it allows women to make the choice to abort and it prevents them from being forced to abort. How many girls and women were sent to Mexico, England, or other countries to have abortions that they didn&#8217;t want in the days prior to Roe v. Wade? More than anyone will ever know.</p>
<p>Although Ms. Ruby-Sachs is one of the worst writers I have ever seen in any sort of publication, she does manage to make viable points. This isn&#8217;t a gay issue OR a straight issue, it&#8217;s a human issue.</p>
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		<title>By: bobweekend</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-abortions-fly-out-the-window/comment-page-2/#comment-76597</link>
		<dc:creator>bobweekend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10690#comment-76597</guid>
		<description>If a woman wants an abortion let her pay for it.  Maybe she will think twice before spreading her legs next time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If a woman wants an abortion let her pay for it.  Maybe she will think twice before spreading her legs next time.</p>
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		<title>By: GayIthacan</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-abortions-fly-out-the-window/comment-page-2/#comment-76578</link>
		<dc:creator>GayIthacan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10690#comment-76578</guid>
		<description>Emma:

For Heaven&#039;s Sake - I will never understand how adults can be so ignorant of the political process, and yet claim to be sophisticated and analytical.

The amendment has ZERO chance of surviving what the adults in ashingotn call the &#039;Reconciliation Process&quot; - during which differences between the House and Senate bills are ironed out and those amendments that are deemed unacceptable to one house are removed.

Wht do you think is oging to happen to this silly amendment in the Senate? it is going to be removed from the bill - just as nearly every politician KNEW and KNOWS now. 

The sole purpose of the amendment was to permit politicians in the House to appeal to their bases - without any risk of actually having the amendment signed into law. Everyone &#039;wins&#039; - health care advances - abortion friends and foes get to brush up their street creds - and, sadly, less than sophisticated political analysts and commentators get to waste time and energy blowing off emotion on an absolute non-issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emma:</p>
<p>For Heaven&#8217;s Sake &#8211; I will never understand how adults can be so ignorant of the political process, and yet claim to be sophisticated and analytical.</p>
<p>The amendment has ZERO chance of surviving what the adults in ashingotn call the &#8216;Reconciliation Process&#8221; &#8211; during which differences between the House and Senate bills are ironed out and those amendments that are deemed unacceptable to one house are removed.</p>
<p>Wht do you think is oging to happen to this silly amendment in the Senate? it is going to be removed from the bill &#8211; just as nearly every politician KNEW and KNOWS now. </p>
<p>The sole purpose of the amendment was to permit politicians in the House to appeal to their bases &#8211; without any risk of actually having the amendment signed into law. Everyone &#8216;wins&#8217; &#8211; health care advances &#8211; abortion friends and foes get to brush up their street creds &#8211; and, sadly, less than sophisticated political analysts and commentators get to waste time and energy blowing off emotion on an absolute non-issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/ruby-sachs-abortions-fly-out-the-window/comment-page-2/#comment-76571</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=10690#comment-76571</guid>
		<description>Women constitute half the population of the planet.  If push came to shove, I&#039;d support &#039;pro-choice&#039; over equal marriage.  Ideally, of course, we should have both...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Women constitute half the population of the planet.  If push came to shove, I&#8217;d support &#8216;pro-choice&#8217; over equal marriage.  Ideally, of course, we should have both&#8230;</p>
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