Comments on: Lowenstein: DC Clergy come out in support of gay marriage http://www.365gay.com/blog/lowenstein-dc-clergy-come-out-in-support-of-gay-marriage/ The daily news source for the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:26:49 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: lfivepoints69 http://www.365gay.com/blog/lowenstein-dc-clergy-come-out-in-support-of-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-60547 lfivepoints69 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:07:03 +0000 http://www.365gay.com/?p=7772#comment-60547 Many Christian denominations, congregations, pastors, and individuals recognize that God loves all of His children equally and did not make a mistake when He created gay people and heterosexuals in His image. The Bible says 'there is neither male nor female, neither Jew nor Greek, there is no slave or free, you are all on in Christ'. Clearly same-sex and different-sex marriage are the same to God. The second oldest Christian denomination in America, the United Church of Christ (also called Congregational), has been a staunch supporter of legal marriage as well as Christian marriage. You can see there website at www.ucc.org (note particularly http://www.ucc.org/lgbt/). Many Christian denominations, congregations, pastors, and individuals recognize that God loves all of His children equally and did not make a mistake when He created gay people and heterosexuals in His image. The Bible says ‘there is neither male nor female, neither Jew nor Greek, there is no slave or free, you are all on in Christ’. Clearly same-sex and different-sex marriage are the same to God. The second oldest Christian denomination in America, the United Church of Christ (also called Congregational), has been a staunch supporter of legal marriage as well as Christian marriage. You can see there website at http://www.ucc.org (note particularly http://www.ucc.org/lgbt/).

]]> By: Craig http://www.365gay.com/blog/lowenstein-dc-clergy-come-out-in-support-of-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-60538 Craig Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:39:37 +0000 http://www.365gay.com/?p=7772#comment-60538 Religion has been split on this issue for a very long time, noyz. It's Christianity and the other Abrahamic religions that have been struggling with this the most in recent times. Pagans find homosexuality to be a non-issue. Buddhists may have cultural reasons against homosexuality, but the core teachings of Buddhism finds homosexuality to also be a non-issue. Many Native American tribes consider LGBT people (aka two spirited) as being special rather than an abomination. Religion has been split on this issue for a very long time, noyz. It’s Christianity and the other Abrahamic religions that have been struggling with this the most in recent times. Pagans find homosexuality to be a non-issue. Buddhists may have cultural reasons against homosexuality, but the core teachings of Buddhism finds homosexuality to also be a non-issue. Many Native American tribes consider LGBT people (aka two spirited) as being special rather than an abomination.

]]> By: montrealbren http://www.365gay.com/blog/lowenstein-dc-clergy-come-out-in-support-of-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-60529 montrealbren Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:15:44 +0000 http://www.365gay.com/?p=7772#comment-60529 Good timing. I was just about to become Christophobic. Good timing. I was just about to become Christophobic.

]]> By: drewski http://www.365gay.com/blog/lowenstein-dc-clergy-come-out-in-support-of-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-60504 drewski Thu, 04 Jun 2009 07:58:57 +0000 http://www.365gay.com/?p=7772#comment-60504 This has nothing directly to do with DC, but today I was getting ready for work and I had the TV on CNN. I hear this pastor talking about love and gays and marriage and equality...now, considering some of CNN's MANY sins of copying Fox over the past several years, I didn't know what I'd really find. What I'd been hearing was the Reverend Art Cribbs of the San Marino (Cal.) United Church of Christ. The man's words were stronger than a fist in a boxing ring (google him and see what you find). Here he is, talking about leaving his experience in the East and being the first black pastor in this (pretty well-off) church in suburban LA...and damn if he doesn't have some fire in him ON OUR SIDE! When you don't hear hate, you can have a soft heart. You can be open. You can overcome obstacles because you share love, whether it's in worship, in nature, in art, in family, or anything else. I haven't heard any of these DC clergy speak--yet. I look forward to it. I don't believe, but I don't want to squelch belief in somebody who does feel it. You don't re-make your friends, right? You love them for who they are, for what matters to them. These DC clergy have shown courage, but the courage is also proof of their faith. I don't have to believe to accept their support. I don't have to believe to be open to their love. They don't all have to agree with me on everything to support my right to be. If that's crunchy, what's wrong with it? This has nothing directly to do with DC, but today I was getting ready for work and I had the TV on CNN. I hear this pastor talking about love and gays and marriage and equality…now, considering some of CNN’s MANY sins of copying Fox over the past several years, I didn’t know what I’d really find. What I’d been hearing was the Reverend Art Cribbs of the San Marino (Cal.) United Church of Christ. The man’s words were stronger than a fist in a boxing ring (google him and see what you find). Here he is, talking about leaving his experience in the East and being the first black pastor in this (pretty well-off) church in suburban LA…and damn if he doesn’t have some fire in him ON OUR SIDE!

When you don’t hear hate, you can have a soft heart. You can be open. You can overcome obstacles because you share love, whether it’s in worship, in nature, in art, in family, or anything else.

I haven’t heard any of these DC clergy speak–yet. I look forward to it. I don’t believe, but I don’t want to squelch belief in somebody who does feel it. You don’t re-make your friends, right? You love them for who they are, for what matters to them.

These DC clergy have shown courage, but the courage is also proof of their faith. I don’t have to believe to accept their support. I don’t have to believe to be open to their love. They don’t all have to agree with me on everything to support my right to be. If that’s crunchy, what’s wrong with it?

]]> By: Ted Larson http://www.365gay.com/blog/lowenstein-dc-clergy-come-out-in-support-of-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-60448 Ted Larson Thu, 04 Jun 2009 00:35:47 +0000 http://www.365gay.com/?p=7772#comment-60448 Most major religions teach that man was created in the image of God. Therefore, all men are equal in the eyes of God. Only man himself can and will say that not all are equal. I feel that if the religous really, really, believe in their Bible, then there should be no judgement by any man that we are not all equal in the eyes of God. And for the fundamental Christians, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." I do not try to push my lifestyle nor my beliefs on anyone else, so please do not push yours on me unless we are agreement on those beliefs. As a member of the MCC since the 1970's, I have my own PERSONAL beliefs that are mine for me and me alone. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, this is one of the equalities we all agree on. These beliefs in equalities are may differ from one person to another. I am happy that at least 138 of DC's cleric agree the all men are created in the image of God and should therefore be equal. Let all the other clerics and parishners who still believe in bigotry answer to that subject when they try to get through the Pearly Gates. Most major religions teach that man was created in the image of God. Therefore, all men are equal in the eyes of God. Only man himself can and will say that not all are equal. I feel that if the religous really, really, believe in their Bible, then there should be no judgement by any man that we are not all equal in the eyes of God. And for the fundamental Christians, “Judge not, lest ye be judged.”

I do not try to push my lifestyle nor my beliefs on anyone else, so please do not push yours on me unless we are agreement on those beliefs.

As a member of the MCC since the 1970’s, I have my own PERSONAL beliefs that are mine for me and me alone. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, this is one of the equalities we all agree on. These beliefs in equalities are may differ from one person to another.

I am happy that at least 138 of DC’s cleric agree the all men are created in the image of God and should therefore be equal. Let all the other clerics and parishners who still believe in bigotry answer to that subject when they try to get through the Pearly Gates.

]]> By: Chris Sullivan http://www.365gay.com/blog/lowenstein-dc-clergy-come-out-in-support-of-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-60417 Chris Sullivan Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:05:53 +0000 http://www.365gay.com/?p=7772#comment-60417 You make some good points Molly. You certainly are correct in saying that the churches that do support GLBT people could be more vocal about it. When a community has spent so much time hearing nothing but putdowns from the more major religions, it's unsurprising that these views take hold. These more prominent religions have more than earned the backlash that they have received. It's also worth noting that many people who may have been raised in a belief system, when forced to reassess it, come away not feeling the need for it. Many are more comfortable being simply spiritual and pursue their relationship with God on a personal level. Some feel no need for any of it. I don't know that this is necessarily a bad thing one way or the other. Certainly, religion can be a positive force in peoples lives, helping to cope with the hard times, providing a sense of community etc. I would agree that a lot more work could be done with outreach to GLBT people. You make some good points Molly. You certainly are correct in saying that the churches that do support GLBT people could be more vocal about it. When a community has spent so much time hearing nothing but putdowns from the more major religions, it’s unsurprising that these views take hold. These more prominent religions have more than earned the backlash that they have received. It’s also worth noting that many people who may have been raised in a belief system, when forced to reassess it, come away not feeling the need for it. Many are more comfortable being simply spiritual and pursue their relationship with God on a personal level. Some feel no need for any of it. I don’t know that this is necessarily a bad thing one way or the other. Certainly, religion can be a positive force in peoples lives, helping to cope with the hard times, providing a sense of community etc. I would agree that a lot more work could be done with outreach to GLBT people.

]]> By: Molly http://www.365gay.com/blog/lowenstein-dc-clergy-come-out-in-support-of-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-60414 Molly Wed, 03 Jun 2009 21:54:14 +0000 http://www.365gay.com/?p=7772#comment-60414 One of the saddest things that comes out of the opposition using religion as a hammer against equal civil rights is the perception of religion in the LGBTI community. Certainly many people are able to look past these tactics and join or stay in faith communities. The larger (for now) and louder message is that there isn't a safe and hospitable place for LGBTI people in houses of worship. This is not true as the Washington group makes clear. There are many welcoming congregations all over the country. Many are welcoming at the denominational level. Some congregations are moving ahead of their denominations pushing them to become inclusive. The take away messages that have not been understood by the main stream of our country or by the media are that a portion of religious leaders and denominations do not speak for all and those congregations and denominations who are welcoming need to be out about it, in a big way. They will see their congregations grow, not just by the increase of LGBTI people but straights as well. And by being public as welcoming they can take away the power the religious conservatives exert against all of us seeking full equality for LGBTI people. One of the saddest things that comes out of the opposition using religion as a hammer against equal civil rights is the perception of religion in the LGBTI community. Certainly many people are able to look past these tactics and join or stay in faith communities. The larger (for now) and louder message is that there isn’t a safe and hospitable place for LGBTI people in houses of worship. This is not true as the Washington group makes clear. There are many welcoming congregations all over the country. Many are welcoming at the denominational level. Some congregations are moving ahead of their denominations pushing them to become inclusive. The take away messages that have not been understood by the main stream of our country or by the media are that a portion of religious leaders and denominations do not speak for all and those congregations and denominations who are welcoming need to be out about it, in a big way. They will see their congregations grow, not just by the increase of LGBTI people but straights as well. And by being public as welcoming they can take away the power the religious conservatives exert against all of us seeking full equality for LGBTI people.

]]> By: Jeff in TX http://www.365gay.com/blog/lowenstein-dc-clergy-come-out-in-support-of-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-60377 Jeff in TX Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:44:47 +0000 http://www.365gay.com/?p=7772#comment-60377 “We recognize that there are principled differences on this issue within the religious community. We affirm that the state should not require any religious group to officiate at, or bless, same-gender marriages. However, the state also should not favor the convictions of one religious group over another by denying individuals their fundamental civil right to marry whom they love.” I also applaud and give thanks to each and every 135 members of The Clergy For Marriage. I am one of the 18000 couples who were married in California and I remain married to my husband. I agree that marriage is a civil right. However, maybe a suit should be filed against the federal government on the grounds of religious freedom. First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, states that: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; By prohibiting marriage equality the government IS prohibiting the free exercise thereof (DOMA) and discriminating against a given religious belief. The government IS imposing a given religious belief, of some, on ALL religious instatustions and ALL people of the United States. I do not believe in any organized religion, however I do believe in God. My God made me the way I am and my God believes in marriage equality. And my marriage is just as traditional as any other. “We recognize that there are principled differences on this issue within the religious community. We affirm that the state should not require any religious group to officiate at, or bless, same-gender marriages. However, the state also should not favor the convictions of one religious group over another by denying individuals their fundamental civil right to marry whom they love.”

I also applaud and give thanks to each and every 135 members of The Clergy For Marriage.

I am one of the 18000 couples who were married in California and I remain married to my husband. I agree that marriage is a civil right. However, maybe a suit should be filed against the federal government on the grounds of religious freedom.

First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, states that:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

By prohibiting marriage equality the government IS prohibiting the free exercise thereof (DOMA) and discriminating against a given religious belief.

The government IS imposing a given religious belief, of some, on ALL religious instatustions and ALL people of the United States.

I do not believe in any organized religion, however I do believe in God. My God made me the way I am and my God believes in marriage equality. And my marriage is just as traditional as any other.

]]> By: Zac http://www.365gay.com/blog/lowenstein-dc-clergy-come-out-in-support-of-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-60345 Zac Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:18:46 +0000 http://www.365gay.com/?p=7772#comment-60345 There is a loving God after all. "One of God's greatest gifts to us is our human capacity to love one another". "God is love and love is for everyone. In this spirit we raise our voices in our struggle for the right and freedom to marry". I applaud and give thanks to each and every 135 members of The Clergy For Marriage. This is truly amazing and I hope that more clergy throughout America will hear the same words spoken by The Clergy For Marriage and to join together in the name of our loving God. There is a loving God after all.

“One of God’s greatest gifts to us is our human capacity to love one another”.

“God is love and love is for everyone. In this spirit we raise our voices in our struggle for the right and freedom to marry”.

I applaud and give thanks to each and every 135 members of The Clergy For Marriage. This is truly amazing and I hope that more clergy throughout America will hear the same words spoken by The Clergy For Marriage and to join together in the name of our loving God.

]]> By: Debra http://www.365gay.com/blog/lowenstein-dc-clergy-come-out-in-support-of-gay-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-60343 Debra Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:07:13 +0000 http://www.365gay.com/?p=7772#comment-60343 I do consider myself a person of faith, and this story thrills my soul! I do consider myself a person of faith, and this story thrills my soul!

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