Subscribe to Breaking NewsDuffy: Should gay soldiers be segregated?
I was looking through the “Stripes” website to see if there were any recent stories on gays. Stripes is the online version of the free newspaper, Stars & Stripes, that soldiers have access to in their various locals. I didn’t find any new stories, but I did find editorials stretching back a few months.
I don’t know if these interested parties are gay or straight, but it seems like the majority of these soldiers are defending and promoting the repeal of DADT and acceptance of gays.
I was very comforted by seeing soldiers standing up for other gay and lesbian soldiers like me.
Not all the opinions were positive; one negative commentary, “Problem with gays”, echoes a concern I read in copmments on my other posts. If DADT is repealed how do we segregate those uncontrollable gays? It is obvious to these writers that open gay and lesbian soldiers can’t be permitted to use the same facilities as heterosexuals or work in professions that might permit them to see same-sex genitialia.
I can’t imagine what it would be like for those heterosexual soldiers. They would have to look over their shoulder constantly to make sure no perverse homosexual was lurking in the shadows waiting for them to undress. Truth be told, though, they should start looking over their shoulders now. I have seen plenty of naked male soldiers throughout my military career- some extremely good looking- and they have all survived unscathed.
I have written previously that other men in my original unit know about me. I have showered with them numerous times without any issues. I have wondered what they thought about it, but have honestly never asked them. Maybe I don’t want them to think about it. I have even had one male soldier who asked me about his endowment, apparently because he was somewhat proud of it. I am pretty sure I insulted him with my answer.
When I go to the showers here, they are individual stalls. I get dressed and undressed in the stall with the curtain closed to protect my own privacy, something many do.
I have been to plenty of places where this isn’t available and there is just an open room with shower heads lining the wall. When that’s the case, I go into a dressing area, strip down and head into the shower. I am not thinking sexual thoughts. I am not even facing the other men. I am in there to take a shower. I admit to seeing attractive men, but I have never gotten sexually excited in a shower. This is a respect and self-control issue that is needed for gays and lesbians to serve but I don’t think is found in the heterosexual population.
They haven’t been forced to learn that virtue.
Heterosexual men get caught staring at women all the time. My soldiers here are constantly – CONSTANTLY, to the point it’s annoying – picking women apart who are walking around. Most of these women accept and ignore this attention, but what would it be like if these same men walked into their shower? If the women and men were straight, they might find one another attractive, but could they control themselves and respect each other enough to take a shower and just leave?
In a military environment where discipline and self control are paramount, unisex facilities should be possible. Gays, lesbians, men and women should all be able to get naked together without an incident.
I am reminded of a scene in “Starship Troopers” where there is a unisex shower scene. I understand that it was just a movie, but the attitude expressed by the ‘troopers’ was exactly what I would expect it should be in this day and age. The characters talked and joked around, but nothing was of a sexual nature- just as you might find in an all-male or all-female shower. Soldiers are professionals and should be able to handle a little bit of nudity.
Finally, if your profession requires that you see sexual genitalia or other features of a body that might be attractive to you, that’s the way it is. Doctors see naked people all the time. There are whole specializations based only on reproductive health, and even improving your attractiveness through augmentation and other plastic surgery. If it’s a heterosexual or homosexuals job that requires them to invade your privacy, you should be more concerned more that they are professionally competent than whether or not they find you attractive.
In the end, I would rather be attractive to anybody, gay or straight, than be unattractive to everybody. Be flattered and get over it. If you’re unattractive then don’t be paranoid, no one is looking at you.
“these guys are out risking their lives for the freedoms that we take for granted.”
Let’s be realistic. Most people in the military are not risking their lives. If anything they are living in much safer conditions than civilians who live ‘out in the wild’ of civilian life.
If ’straight’ ppl really knew exactly how many of there battle buddies ‘got down’ i wonder what they would think then. Also, ’straight’ ppl automatically think gay means you are walking around all flambouyant all of the time. They don’t seem to understand that there are plenty of gay folks walking aroung that act just like them, and like most of the same things as them! But I guess you just can’t help social ignorance.
a soldier is a universal soldier,and sexuality should not enter into it.Talking to some WW2 vets who were gay,they told me they had no problem using their gaydor to find partners.They also didn’t act any different than the rest of the guys,and were not tempted,seeing other guys nude etc…
Ummm… Am I the only one who read that letter in a different light? It seemed to me the biggest concern wasn’t so much the showering, but the reported false harassment that would ensue. This is a concern that may happen too. The reason I feel this is what the letter meant to point out and address was the part abotu damaging careers because it could depending on who’s the commander.
Also, as being a veteran myself. I was actually asked this exact question while in uniform, while on the job, and I told the dude (and the leering to listen) only if the guy likes you and most gay guys don’t care to try for a straight guy. I was “open” to close friends and rumours were abound and no one really cared not thought anything about it. Shoot, I hated showing in public (still do). Also, I agree with the sentiment about it’s the straight men hitting on the gay men who worry me. (OH if only I could have reported a few incidents!)
Anyway, I really think the guy’s concern is that there needs to be a temporary setting so homophobes in the military can’t use sexual harassment to try and get homosexuals discharged. Maybe he has a point…
I don’t think that this argument helps to allay the fears that straight men have of being the objects of desire–whether this fear is rational or not. As a nudist, I agree that this is childishness, but we are still stuck with this issue. Gays in a sense constitute another gender and may need to be treated as such–like women who shower seperately from men. This was never an issue when I was in. I was “out” for nearly a decade before I succumbed to the neawly instituted DADT and an ignorant, brand-new commander. Though in retrospect I do recall some incidences over the years where in the field, I had been sent to shower ahead of the group in order to accomplish some other task. Even my own soldiers had arranged similar schedules–I generally got a knock on the door and, “Sarge, its your turn.” Generally, in my experience, soldiers solve these issues in their own way, but in national political debate, this will come down to fear of gay “perversion.” We need a better response than this article that just says soldiers should be professionals–even if true.
I’m cautious in my opinion of the way I think the military ‘ought’ to be run.
That is, as a gay civilian, I’m okay with leaving a lot of leeway in how the military implements the policy. Just speaking personally, in civilian life, if I were going to be in, say, a shared shower setting and I knew someone was going to be uncomfortable with me being gay, I’d shower at a different time, or place, or whatever. Heck, I’m not real keen on anybody watching me shower either. I whole heartedly agree that the ideal should be that men and women, gay and straight should be able to be in intimate proximity and not get aroused. But, ideals are worked towards. Seldom, if ever, achieved. So, as I see it, it’s really up to the soldiers, gay and straight, to decide how best to work alongside one another. I have standards, but as a civilian, I’m largely going to defer to the military personnel themselves on this.
An absolutely ridiculous & preposterous idea!
Several counties in Europe as well as Canada have had gays participate in their armed forces, some for decades now without any concern about segregation.
So what is next segregated urinals? What is the difference?
This has more to do with Americans unconfortable with nudity then anything else. I hear that most kids in high school no longer even shower because they are afraid of how their own body shapes up next to their fellow students.
No self respecting gay person would ever be stupid to do something in a shower. Get a gripe! It is just a dick and some of them are not that pretty.
I just spoke with Sen. Tim Johnson’s office regarding the DADT bill. He is certainly supportive, but they are all passing the buck on waiting on the other guy. I confronted those arguements. They said that the one of the best ways is to call them because they like to hear from us on these issues. Once we start bombarding them perhaps with calls they will get the message. I know, many of them are wimps, but never are they ‘our’ wimps.
I am a retired military person and read the military.com blog that has a large section on “Gays in the Military.” These are active and retired folks putting in their 2 cents. Some have mentioned this ’shower issue’ as if gays are sex crazed hyperactive folks who think only of screwing. The other issue is that st8 men are uncomfortable with the idea of being ‘leared’ at by another male and almost feel the penetration in their minds! But by and large the military folks are going by the way of the average citizen thinking that gays should be allowed. The DOD’s rules on sexual harrassment need to be used against the same-sex inappropriateness as opposite sex advances. That is the key. Once that is demanded then all this nonsense about segretion should cease. Having said that, what the hell is wrong with us Americans whereas we are afraid someone will see our dick or tit? My goodness. I grew up with gang showers from grade school into the military. Never hurt me and I was fat!
SOLDIERS SHOULD DIFINETLY NOT BE SEGREGATED. IF STRAIGHT SOLDIERS ARE INSECURE ABOUT THEIR SEXUALITY, IT IS THEIR PROBLEM…WHY DO STRAIGHT MEN THINK THAT ALL GAY MEN ARE AFTER THEM… THEY NEED TO GET OVER THEMSELVES AND FAST.
I was in the military and I am gay and the idea of segregation is stupid. Gay soldiers have been showering/bathing nude in rivers/lakes with straight soldiers since the beginning of time. Straight men shouldn’t flatter themselves. I leave them alone, and they leave me alone. Straight men check each other out in the shower even when no gay person is in the shower. It’s part of human nature to look…that doesn’t mean they are gay. I can tell you that a gay soldier isn’t stupid enough to try and make the moves on a straight soldier.
The military needs to worry about their straight soldiers raping women, just as the Catholic church needs to worry about molesting priests, not gay soldiers or gay men.
The mere question is offensive. Should black soldier be segregated? That question is offensive too.
I dont see any reason why the US Congress (lead by Democrats) should not immediately repeal DADT and I see no reason for segregating gay soldiers once DADT is repealed.
Gay soldiers currently exist in all branches of the military and they abide by the rules of conduct for the Armed Services without incident of sexual harrassment of straight soldiers. Why would it be any diffeent for gay soldiers once DADT is repealed?
Any misconduct of sexual harrassment, sexual intimidation should not be allowed for any soldeier, be they straight or Gay. ironically, there are many cases of straight soldier misconduct in the area of sxual harrassment, so perhas allowing gay soldiers to openly serve in the military, just might have a positive effect on the conduct of straight soldiers.
Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is an affront to heterosexuals as well as homosexuals. It assumes that all straight soldiers are uncomfortable and insecure about homosexuality, to the point where it affects their morale and job performance.
Duffy is 100 % correct. It is all about respect. I have often showered in gyms and all I was thinking about was getting clean.
We are way to hung up on our bodies and nudity in the U.S.
As for finding people attractive in public or in the showers the ones I liked never seemed to notice, while the few times I have been accused of looking (out in public) has only been by people who REALLY had nothing to worry about. Strait people doing odd things or being too loud.
Tom in Long Beach