November 8th, 2009
 

365Gay Agenda Blog

Duffy: Should gay soldiers be segregated?

By Michael Duffy, 365gay blogger 06.16.2009 7:00am EDT
Culture & Ideas

I was looking through the “Stripes” website to see if there were any recent stories on gays.  Stripes is the online version of the free newspaper, Stars & Stripes, that soldiers have access to in their various locals.  I didn’t find any new stories, but  I did find editorials stretching back a few months. 

I don’t know if these interested parties are gay or straight, but it seems like the majority of these soldiers are defending and promoting the repeal of DADT and acceptance of gays. 

 I was very comforted by seeing soldiers standing up for other gay and lesbian soldiers like me. 

Not all the opinions were positive; one negative commentary, “Problem with gays”, echoes a concern I read in copmments on my other posts.  If DADT is repealed how do we segregate those uncontrollable gays?  It is obvious to these writers that open gay and lesbian soldiers can’t be permitted to use the same facilities as heterosexuals or work in professions that might permit them to see same-sex genitialia. 

I can’t imagine what it would be like for those heterosexual soldiers.  They would have to look over their shoulder constantly to make sure no perverse homosexual was lurking in the shadows waiting for them to undress.  Truth be told, though, they should start looking over their shoulders now.  I have seen plenty of naked male soldiers throughout my military career- some extremely good looking- and they have all survived unscathed.

I have written previously that other men in my original unit know about me.  I have showered with them numerous times without any issues.  I have wondered what they thought about it, but have honestly never asked them.  Maybe I don’t want them to think about it.  I have even had one male soldier who asked me about his endowment, apparently because he was somewhat proud of it.  I am pretty sure I insulted him with my answer.

When I go to the showers here, they are individual stalls.  I get dressed and undressed in the stall with the curtain closed to protect my own privacy, something many do. 

I have been to plenty of places where this isn’t available and there is just an open room with shower heads lining the wall.  When that’s the case, I go into a dressing area, strip down and head into the shower.  I am not thinking sexual thoughts.  I am not even facing the other men.  I am in there to take a shower.  I admit to seeing attractive men, but I have never gotten sexually excited in a shower.  This is a respect and self-control issue that is needed for gays and lesbians to serve but I don’t think is found in the heterosexual population. 

They haven’t been forced to learn that virtue.

Heterosexual men get caught staring at women all the time.  My soldiers here are constantly – CONSTANTLY, to the point it’s annoying – picking women apart who are walking around.  Most of these women accept and ignore this attention, but what would it be like if these same men walked into their shower?  If the women and men were straight, they might find one another attractive, but could they control themselves and respect each other enough to take a shower and just leave? 

In a military environment where discipline and self control are paramount, unisex facilities should be possible.  Gays, lesbians, men and women should all be able to get naked together without an incident. 

I am reminded of a scene in “Starship Troopers” where there is a unisex shower scene.  I understand that it was just a movie, but the attitude expressed by the ‘troopers’ was exactly what I would expect it should be in this day and age.   The characters talked and joked around, but nothing was of a sexual nature- just as you might find in an all-male or all-female shower.  Soldiers are professionals and should be able to handle a little bit of nudity. 

Finally, if your profession requires that you see sexual genitalia or other features of a body that might be attractive to you, that’s the way it is.  Doctors see naked people all the time.  There are whole specializations based only on reproductive health, and even improving your attractiveness through augmentation and other plastic surgery.  If it’s a heterosexual or homosexuals job that requires them to invade your privacy, you should be more concerned more that they are professionally competent than whether or not they find you attractive. 

In the end, I would rather be attractive to anybody, gay or straight, than be unattractive to everybody.  Be flattered and get over it.  If you’re unattractive then don’t be paranoid, no one is looking at you.


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  • Kari Said: June 16th, 2009 at 8:22 am
    • Perhaps as an interim policy only allow gay soldiers to work at facilities that have stall showers?

      It’s not perfect or equal, but it’d least get our feet squarely in the door?

  • Disgusted Gay American Said: June 16th, 2009 at 8:27 am
    • Ridiculous notion – segregated?? Really? In the 21st century? IS America/and American soldiers that “sensitive” …they are escared of someone lookin at thier pee pee? Unfriggin-believable!!! America is supposed to have the BEST Fighting force,and yet this scares them? Geeeez…….This country bugs me more and more everyday.

  • Jessica K Said: June 16th, 2009 at 8:29 am
    • If these so called soldiers can not protect themselves from the supposed wayward penis or vagina then they have no business protecting my country.

  • Robert, NYC Said: June 16th, 2009 at 8:36 am
    • Well, from what I know, sexual abuse seems to be a largely straight phenomenon in the military, straight male on straight female. If segregation of gay soldiers were enacted, then by the same token, female straight soldiers would also have to face the same treatment. These straights can’t have it both ways. It all or nothing.

  • Zac Said: June 16th, 2009 at 9:19 am
    • Why do straight men always flatter themselves thinking that every gay man wants their bodies whether it be in the military or any where else? Even your so called straight men eye ball other men in the shower, usually because of their unresolved fear of the childhood penis envy thing I guess. This paranoia and homophobia isn’t a gay issue it’s a straight issue created by straight men. At the work place do gay men hit on other men? No! Do straight men hit on women at the work place? Yes, all the time.
      By promoting DADT it has maintained the irrational illogical fear that gay military men want to bed down straight military
      men. Gay men and women have too much respect for themselves and take their responsibilities serious in the military. The government is the guilty one that has continually created and supported it’s own homophobia and sexual insecurities whether it be gays in the military or not, leading to the ongoing bigotry and hate that flows into mainstream America.
      So again, to all you straight men that think all gay men are lusting after your bodies, you need some serious counseling.
      I’m more concerned of you “straight” men coming on to a gay man.
      Segregating gay military men from your “straight” military men only creates, maintains and instills irrational homophobic fears making gay men a much bigger target in the military.

  • Michael Duffy Said: June 16th, 2009 at 11:15 am
    • Will it be a requirement to come out for gays? If it’s not how would it ever be possible to segregate them? Would they only segregate out LGBT? Would they force assumed gays to use the gay shower? Segregation is scary!

  • John Said: June 16th, 2009 at 11:30 am
    • Uhm. Military gays are hot. If there were a segregated gay unit in the military I’d be ready to quit my day job! Whooohooo! =)

  • Robert, NYC Said: June 16th, 2009 at 11:34 am
    • Zac, you hit the nail on the head, it IS a straight problem and they’re trying to make it a gay problem. Another classic case of the long tradition of scapegoating and dehumanization. Many of our military leaders are right wingers and christo fascists, that’s why its taking so long and why Obama has conceded the job to them to figure out because he doesn’t want to offend the religious base that he kow-tows to, its at the core of most discrimination against us if you look deeper. Not one of our western allies, especially the UK left it to their military to resolve. It was legislated by their respective governments.

  • Jamie416 Said: June 16th, 2009 at 11:35 am
    • Two points:
      1) If you want a similar showering situation try college sports. All of my team mates survived un-raped in the communal showers as well.
      2)All the other militaries that allow gays and lesbians to serve openly (Canada, the United Kingdom, France, Germany) have done just fine without seggregation.

  • Breakers Said: June 16th, 2009 at 11:47 am
    • Mr. Duffy, all good points. Especially when you say “I am not thinking sexual thoughts. I am not even facing the other men. I am in there to take a shower.”

      That is something the screeching voices on the opposite side of this debate who have never served in the military fail to understand. Let’s face it, most of the time when we hit the showers we’re either in a hurry, or too damn tired to care that the other guys are naked, too. I recall having the “gang” showers with no stalls, and I also recall not being aroused at all. We were dirty, tired, and just wanted to get cleaned up. Sexual thoughts about the naked guy next to you, even is he was hot, were almost always the furthest thing from your mind.

  • Richard Buhrer Said: June 16th, 2009 at 11:55 am
    • A social worker friend of mine once told me that she thought that the ban on gays in the military was founded in the belief that “no does not mean no” that fires so much obnoxious and assaultive behavior toward women. Military men may fear that they will be the object of the same aggressive behavior from us. Very plausible idea to me.

  • Israeli gay veteran Said: June 16th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
    • Israeli Army legalized gays for service back in 1993. During this time thousands of openly gays served, some of them (like me) in combat units. There is also an active reserve service, in which many gays had the chance to come out, if they did not do so during their compulsory service. This link is to an article in the official army journal, that brings the story of Major Joshua Gurtler, an assistant to the Army Chief Attorney. Non-Hebrew readers can enjoy the picture of Major Gurtler receives his Major ranks from the General on his one side, and his husband on the other. http://dover.idf.il/IDF/News_Channels/bamahana/09/22/11.htm

  • R & R Said: June 16th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
    • Looking back on my 8 years in the Navy and taking plenty of showers in open shower rooms I can tell you that 99.9% of straight guys have “nothing” (pun INTENDED) to worry about because what they have peeking out of their pubic hair is not worth the time of day to look.

      The hysterical events were hearing the most ugly, fat, sloppy jerks brag about all the “queers” who were after them while on liberty. What gall! What ignorance!

      Believe me when I say straight military personnel have not one damn thing to worry about should DADT be lifted. And the comment that straigt guys look at other guys genitalia is absolutley corrrect. I say this occur time and time again. It’s called “is mine as big as his” and nothing more.

  • Scott Said: June 16th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
    • Let’s face it communal showers have always been a potential hotbed for harrassment, straight or gay, in high school, the gym, wherever. The arguement that gays should be kept out of the military based on showering is stupid since there are way too many simple solutions such as setting up a couple individual private shower stalls in areas with communal showers for anyone who wishes to use them (whether they are straight, gay, bisexual, transgendered, have a physical attribute they don’t wish to share, or are just plain insecure about themselves). It doesn’t have to be about segregation of gays, but a respect for the privacy some folks wish to have.

      This shower arguement is just one more rationalization that hasn’t been well thought out by those who want to keep gays closeted in the military.

  • Lucas F. Said: June 16th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
    • Jessica, If they are fighting for and protecting my country I can live with the fact that they are a little narrow minded. No matter how you feel, these guys are out risking their lives for the freedoms that we take for granted. They have all the business in the world protecting my country.
      That being said, I have been in many situations where I’ve been in communal showers (high school locker room, sports practice, etc..) and sometimes, yes, there were really attractive guys around.
      However, it is a respect thing, and having sex with them is the last thing on your mind. It’s a respect thing that people assume that gays cannot follow.

 
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