Sure, faith is important to anyone who values a close relationship with God (or some other higher being) but it is important to also accept the differences between faith and religion. Certain religious institutions, like the Roman Catholic Church—will never ever accept homosexuality. That has been established and will remain so as long as there is a pope that sits on the throne of St. Peter.

However, for protestant denominations—-a touch of tolerance and acceptance can be expected, because protestant groups lean more towards dialogue and eager adaptation to changes in society.

So that goes by saying that if you are gay and lesbian, don’t get your hopes up pushing yourself in a religious organization which refuses to ever accept you and share “equality at the table”. It’s unrealistic. Just go find another church that suits your own. With so many new protestant groups springing up everyday—I’m sure any gay or lesbian can find one they can belong to.

It dumbfounds me that anyone could believe in Mythological doctrines (such as a Virgin birth, or resurrection of the dead) in an age that is being spearheaded by science and technology. We know for a fact that such things are impossible (use a little logic and reason people!) If you’re going to believe in Jesus, you might as well believe in Horus, Mythras, Dionysus, Hyakinthos, Adonis, Sabazius, Herakles, etc. who all had, more or less, the components to their story as did Jesus.

If you want to believe in god, there’s nothing wrong with that… it’s the doctrines that you associate with god that can be dangerous. I’ve never heard of a Deist voting for Proposition 8…

I think it’s most important to recognize that the people rejecting us in the name of God, hating us in the name of God, are false Christians. They are twisting the Word to justify their prejudices and worshiping themselves. They are not God, no matter how much they try to make Him in their images.

God is love and God loves EVERYONE.

And while it prob isn’t worth bothering to try and help the catholic church change now, recognize that there are catholic organizations like DignityUSA, New Ways ministry, etc who support gay equality.

And lets not fall for the political trap laid by the right wing homophobes. They make so much noise that the gay community assumes they represent almost all religious people, and mistakenly condemns religion in general. And by this very act, the community verifies to people of faith that we are the enemy of religion, and we lose the support of these people who are almost there re supporting marriage equality.

That is the trap. That is what is not so obvious to those of us, including myself, who have often referred to eg the current pope as Nazi-Razi, etc. Do some reading, eg The Rule of Benedict by David Gibson, who enlightened me to the fact that there are lots of good priests and Catholic people who support gays, and that in particular the church is a political organization, temporarily run by a control freak IMHO. But remember that 94% of catholics violate the church teachings about birth control, and you see the opportunity.

Also read Words that Work, by Frank Luntz. It’s not what we say, which is what WE want to hear, but what the audience HEARS through their preconceived ideas, that counts.

As an example, think about what happened in CT, and what is happening in NH. By putting specific legislation in place protecting churches and their directly associated employees and subsidiary organizations, eg the Catholic Knights of Columbus, from lawsuits re Marriage related activities, we got CT., and will almost certainly get NH with marriage. The good religious people who still cant quite make the transition from civil unions to marriage will feel their church is protected. At the same time they understand that marriage equality for gay people is now a civil law deal, not something that will be forced onto churches, or result in nuisance lawsuits.

And that is a stunning development.

And it will draw so many people to supporting civil marriage equality which is what counts.

And longer term, show up the real homophobic churches for what they are – houses of hatred in God’s Name.

How’s that sound from a Jewish Ultra-liberal who isn’t going with his wife to see Israel, so I can give those big bucks to support marriage equality. And who only goes with his wife to the temple very occasionally, so she doesn’t feel like a widow.

Comments: Stephen1553@gmail.com

Yet, there is a minority of Christians who chose to not dam us because of our choices. Those who chose not to judge us. It seems that a lot of us are forgetting those churches that welcome us despite of who we are. They are churches who have a positive outlook on us on in the LGBT community. I myself am not mad at God. (Yes, I believe in God, although I Wiccan. I know I weird). I made my peace with him a long time ago. I’m not angry at the religion. I’m angry with those people who chose use their religion as excuse and as weapon to treat people as sub-human just because they are different.

I don’t care who does or doesn’t go to church. I just want them to stay out of legal or governmental matters unless they’re interested in recognizing the equality of more people, not a select few.

The South is still very churchy, and I’m at least half-convinced that it’s more cultural than anything else. You do it because your friends and family do. Then the indoctrination starts, and when you’re dealing with Baptists, the faith says you have an obligation to bring others in. There’s that little thing called an interpersonal boundary that seems nonexistent to a lot of these people, and that’s something that’s better treated with counseling and behavior modification than with laying on of hands, or a prayer circle, which takes me back to why I moved away from these people.

Cody, it’s none of my business whether or not you go to church. It is a little disturbing to think of people choosing to be in a setting where a core part of their existence is deemed to be not OK with god. Conditional acceptance (we’ll tolerate you, but you’re not good enough to be equal) is both spiritually and psychologically unhealthy.

I grew up in the rural South where intolerance and hatred were part of the everyday vernacular. I refuse to repeat those mistakes and I’m shocked to hear so many members of the gay community speaking this way. We are never going to gain solid ground on the religious right if we do exactly what they expect us to do. And what I’m hearing is what they expect us to do.