Subscribe to Breaking NewsCorvino: Dangerous Campsite?
“What do you think about my having sex with an 18-year-old?” a thirtysomething friend asked.
What do I think? Tread carefully.
Notice I said “Tread carefully,” not “Run in the other direction,” which was my initial gut reaction. So let me fill in some background.
The legal age of consent where these two live (Michigan) is 16. The 18-year-old is a recent high-school graduate. The thirtysomething guy has no interest in running for mayor of Portland.
The 18-year-old quite clearly initiated the flirtation between the two, and wants it to go further. This I observed personally, as I was present when they met.
Like most 18-year-old guys, he’s horny. He has not been impressed, thus far, with other guys he has met (usually on the internet).
The thirtysomething guy is good-looking, thoughtful, kind, and healthy. I’d rather see the 18-year-old hook up with him than with many of the guys he’s likely to encounter.
Aside from the age difference, and the accompanying educational and economic differences, there are no other obvious power imbalances (which is not to diminish the significance of those just mentioned). The 18-year old is not the thirtysomething’s student, or intern, or employee, for example.
Neither of them plans for this to be an ongoing thing-or so they now say. Recalling my own youthful tendency to fall hard for anyone who showed me romantic attention, one concern I had (and voiced) is that the 18-year-old might quickly want more than this relationship is likely to offer.
On the other hand, that risk-along with many of the others that come to mind-could arise in a peer relationship as well, the difference being that I trust my thirtysomething friend’s ability to handle the situation better than I trust most youths’.
All relationships carry risks, as the thirtysomething guy knows and the 18-year-old will learn in his own time. That includes risks for the older partner. The dynamics of power can shift when one falls in love or lust.
Regarding relationships with younger partners, the ever-insightful Dan Savage proposes his “campsite rule”: “leave ‘em in better shape than you found ‘em.”
Specifically, he says, “Don’t get ‘em pregnant, don’t give ‘em diseases, and don’t lead ‘em to believe that a long-term relationship is even a remote possibility.” Also, work to ensure that they emerge from the relationship with “improved sexual skills.”
Needless to say, the general campsite rule is a good rule for all sexual relationships. Non-sexual ones, too. But it becomes especially important with the young, who are vulnerable sexually.
The flip side of that vulnerability is receptiveness to positive input. Just as a bad sexual relationship during your formative years can permanently scar you, a good one can be a great blessing, instilling salutary habits. (Such as, use a condom every time. Tell your partner what feels good-and what doesn’t. Watch your teeth. And so on.)
All else being equal, an experienced partner can teach such things better than a novice.
Some will balk at this endorsement of “casual” sex. Yes, sex can be a deep, meaningful thing in the context of a committed relationship. But it can also be a safe and highly pleasurable experience between relative strangers, and I don’t think the casual kind now undermines the committed kind later. On the contrary, it can help train one-physically and emotionally-for the committed kind.
Many people harbor the peculiar idea that sex requires no training. We’re supposed to be able to do it instinctively, the way birds pushed from the nest fly. No wonder the world has so many lousy lovers.
I’m not suggesting that the solution is for older folks to start cruising high school parking lots. Let’s face it: there are plenty of unscrupulous characters who are all too eager to manipulate the young.
My friend is not in that category.
However, one might argue that the fact that so many ARE in that category is a good reason for endorsing a bright-line rule against sex with younger partners.
I agree that bright-line rules are sometimes necessary. For example, while some 13-year-olds would make better drivers than many adults, we don’t issue them licenses.
Legally, Michigan law sets that bright line at 16 for sex. (Other states vary.) I’m not convinced that the moral bright line in this case should be different, and I certainly don’t think that it should be over 18.
As one friend put it, crudely but accurately, “There are worse things you can do to an eager 18-year-old than give him a good blow job.”
I would add that, if you keep the campsite rule in mind, are honest and kind, and strive to be a good mentor, you might in fact do him a considerable service.
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John Corvino, Ph.D. is an author, speaker, and philosophy professor at Wayne State University in Detroit. His column “The Gay Moralist” appears Fridays on 365gay.com. Read more about him at www.johncorvino.com.
*sighs* As Peter said it’s a consensual relationship ment to craft these young men and women into good lovers without having the pain and splintering from a real relationship. They know the emotional attachment risks, they know that will be burned if they let themselves think it will be anything other than training.
On a side note, one fantastic reader from the U.K. kept Corvino’s last post about morality going on for an entire weekend. I don’t have that kind of patience.
What a complete load of rubbish. Yes lets use them and abuse them (but pretend we left them better off) but oh no, a relationship would never work. Nope, there are no lasting relationships… Again, what a complete load of rubbish.
Sweetie what is your problem. You seem very irritated by the fact that an 18 yr. old is engaging in sexual relations with a 30 yr. old. Am I condoning it? no. But am I acting affrotned by it? Absolutely not. This young man is able to make mature decisions on his own. Some younger gay men AND women (don’t think for one moment that all lesbians or Bisexual young women are little chaste angels) I find to be unable to make a mature decision should they encounter a situation like this. They would go for the sex in a heartbeat, even after they weighed the Pros and cons of their possible decisions, and the cons outweighed the pros.
As for the older half of this hypothetical couple, it lies within their responsibilities to treat the other with fairness, respect, and complete and utter good judgementwhen dealing with their partners in a sexual manner. After all this isn’t a relationship based on love, it’s more akin to a pedgogous affair, but both men/women are of age and consenting. Besides is anyone really getting hurt in the process IF it is done correctly? The younger man/woman learns valuable sexual experience (not to mention one hell of a good time
) and the older man/woman gets the satisfaction of creating an experienced lover in the world and major satisfaction out of the whole ordeal. So long as both parties tie up loose ends it should work out perfectly (unless they fall for each other in which Mazel Tov!)
I hate to take a vulgar dissection of your comment but it oozes with radical extreme feminism. “I love when MALES make excuses so they can screw anyone younger than them”. You failed to add the word females to that statement. By saying that ONLY older males engage in sexual acts with younger men is a logical fallacy that even I (a passive-neutral member of the gay community who respects both gays and Lesbians for their acheivements regarding our community, regardless of gender) can decipher that you find all women older than 18 obviously seek ONLY women of their own age. Are you f***ing kidding me?!?! There are women well over thirty who seek out young, impressionable lesbians/bisexual women around the age of consent purely for sexual pleasure. They don’t even consider the campsite rule when they go out and do these girls, in fact for both older gay men and women who cruise for younger “game” it almost mirrors the hetero practice of finding a cheap whore, screwing her and leaving her the next morning. Although there are gay men who do the same thing, it is unbelievable that you could so blindly sate that only men do these things and that Lesbians are immune to poor calls in judgement.
You are part of the image problem this community faces, and if i were in your shoes i would apologize for my one-sided sexism and GTF off this website, and leave the LGBT community forever. That would be the best service you could ever do for us.
My son is 17 and gay. I met his 25 yr old “boyfriend” at graduation this year. I thought back to when I was his age and it is all normal. I personally wanted to kick his boyfriends butt because I am THAT protective father, I would do the same for my daughter! But I raised him well and he is a smart guy! I just have to trust him to make his decisions and support him when they do not work out the way he planned. He has to live his life and letting go is the hardest part.
There was 20 years difference between my mother and father and they had a long marriage until my father’s death. I’ve always found it somewhat amusing when people get in a tizzy and claim such things never work etc etc. Even your generally supportive article makes a point of saying tell them there is no chance of a long term relationship. Why not?
My husband and I (same-sex couple) met when I was 18 he was 47, we both had dated men our ages….34 years later we are atill a couple, we faced more then our share of homophopia and more, as the intergenerational aspect is something Hetro & GLBT persons could not get over.
You do not choose who you fall in love with, if you do the relationship will not last 34 years and counting!
When both parties are above the “age of consent” no matter what that age is then what they do with and to each other is their business and none of ours or anyone else’s. I would hope that they would be able to both “teach” each other something wonderful and if “it is not to be” that they would leave each other a better person than they had found them in the beginning. Hope springs eternal in the breast of a queen.
As a ‘bear’, it seems almost every guy who hits on me is younger. They are looking for their big, older, stronger ‘teddy bear’.
When I put an ad up on a bear site, I’d say maybe 2% of the people who replied were older than me, 5-7% my age, and all the rest were 10yrs+ younger (I’m in my late 30’s).
I haven’t gone there yet. Just saying it’s an interesting dynamic.
Also – we just learned that my great grandfather was 33 when he married my 18 year old grandma… family managed to forget that, somehow…
When I was 13, I was very much attracted to men in their 30s. Guys my age don’t provide the kind of sexual experience and maturity I wanted. The attraction goes both ways: younger towards older, older towards younger. As long as it’s legal, consensual and supportive, I make no judgments.
Now that I am in my 30s, rarely do I find myself attracted to guys below 24. In the rare occasion I’m attracted to someone younger, I don’t judge myself. A feeling is not an action.
If someone is legal age then what’s the problem here? My boyfriend is 10 years younger than me. He’s 23 and I’m 33 (the perfect age, right Jayson). I’ve had plenty of 15-25 yr olds hit on me. Though of course I go by the “15 will get you 20″ rule so of course I don’t even talk about anything sexual and more about video games
Impossible for anyone not involved to judge, however that doesn’t stop people here. Hard and fast rules never work for everybody. This is the first I’ve heard the campsite rule, and it actually is pretty good, if you approach it with common sense and intelligence. Age difference is tough. When I was 25 I dated an 18 year old. There didn’t feel like that big a difference. And then there is Don Bachardy and Christopher Isherwood. I’m betting they weren’t all that unusual. Each situation deserves its own thought. I’m also betting there are lots of women in these same situations. Men don’t hold a monopoly on sex.
I actually agree with this – right down the line.
HOWEVER – just in case – make sure that (if you are the December end of the equation) that you have WITNESSES who can verify that there was mutual flirtation and consensuality to the act – AND make sure there is no power relationship between the 2 of you. (As a teacher, I find MANY 16 year old young men attractive But, of course, NOTHING would permit me to ACT on those feelings if there is any hint of a power relationship involved.)
Aside from that – I say the Greeks, Romans, and most other Mediterranean cultures had a good thing going. ALL types of wisdom can be passed down from generation to generation. As long as it is consensual, legal, and engaged in strictly as an end in itself.
When both people are of legal age, then it is not pedophilia. I don’t find 18 year olds very interesting myself, but if both of them know the rules and are willing…. I have always though that 33 is the perfect age.
A dennis cooper book away from pedophilia anyone? I love when males make excuses so they can screw anyone younger than them. It’s rather typical and I guess should be expected. No need to mention the other gender in this column, I guess. Enjoy the 20 year younger “hims.”
Half your age plus seven. It’s called Tadpoling. I heard it on Oprah, so it must be okay now. Teehee!