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	<title>Comments on: Withers: Making fun of the HRC</title>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/120408-hrc-barely-endorses-maxwell/comment-page-2/#comment-34240</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4453#comment-34240</guid>
		<description>Nobody mentioned religious outreach.  All good reasons to drop support, but for me the biggest was when they launched the ill-advised religious outreach effort, which basically purports to teach bigots &quot;how to pray and NOT HATE gays so much.&quot;

Sorry, but religion is evil, in all of its manifestations ALL OF THEM.  I can&#039;t give any money to an organization that uses it to say religion is ok, it just needs to be educated.

The only education religion needs is simply reason and humanity.  If &quot;they&quot; employed their brains, there would be no religion, because its premise is false.

By the way, in case people haven&#039;t figured it out, HRC is not a gay organization.  It is a fundraiser for the DNC set up to raise funds FROM gay people.

The abortion issue discussed in this thread proves that out.  I&#039;m pro choice (there is no pro-life by the way, that is a made up term, it means nothing.  You either support a woman&#039;s right to choose or you are against it.  Both positions have positive and negative life impace, so &quot;pro-life&quot; or &quot;anti-life&quot; are in fact meaningless).....but I certainly don&#039;t want my gay dollars having anything to do with that argument.  It clearly was needed to fit into the DNCs goals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody mentioned religious outreach.  All good reasons to drop support, but for me the biggest was when they launched the ill-advised religious outreach effort, which basically purports to teach bigots &#8220;how to pray and NOT HATE gays so much.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry, but religion is evil, in all of its manifestations ALL OF THEM.  I can&#8217;t give any money to an organization that uses it to say religion is ok, it just needs to be educated.</p>
<p>The only education religion needs is simply reason and humanity.  If &#8220;they&#8221; employed their brains, there would be no religion, because its premise is false.</p>
<p>By the way, in case people haven&#8217;t figured it out, HRC is not a gay organization.  It is a fundraiser for the DNC set up to raise funds FROM gay people.</p>
<p>The abortion issue discussed in this thread proves that out.  I&#8217;m pro choice (there is no pro-life by the way, that is a made up term, it means nothing.  You either support a woman&#8217;s right to choose or you are against it.  Both positions have positive and negative life impace, so &#8220;pro-life&#8221; or &#8220;anti-life&#8221; are in fact meaningless)&#8230;..but I certainly don&#8217;t want my gay dollars having anything to do with that argument.  It clearly was needed to fit into the DNCs goals.</p>
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		<title>By: karl</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/120408-hrc-barely-endorses-maxwell/comment-page-1/#comment-34228</link>
		<dc:creator>karl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4453#comment-34228</guid>
		<description>www.gayvolt.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.gayvolt.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.gayvolt.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alan A. Katz</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/120408-hrc-barely-endorses-maxwell/comment-page-1/#comment-34222</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan A. Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4453#comment-34222</guid>
		<description>While I agree that we need &quot;something like&quot; HRC, that doesn&#039;t mean we need HRC.

Their stance on stripping out transgender rights from ENDA showed their true stripes: take whatever you can get so that you don&#039;t get nothing.

No courage there, esp. from Joe Salmonese, who swore he would not support a non-inclusive ENDA, then did.

What we need now is Larry Kramer and something more like Act Up. We have played the &quot;we are just like you straight people card&quot; as long as we can, or should. We&#039;ve done innumerable campaigns fronted by straights lest the poor Evangelicals hear the hint of a lisp on TV ads or talk-shows.

Enough. This is not about &quot;accepting us&quot; or &quot;tolerating us&quot; any more. This is about getting equal civil rights, and HRC (not to mention those closet-driven poobahs at Equality California) is not the right vehicle for intense action to claim our Constitutional rights. For that, you need a barful of drag queens like the ones who drove Stonewall and pioneered the demand for gay civil rights.

Hey, Larry, what&#039;re you doing these days? Wanna do a new Act-Up? If so, I&#039;ll donate, I&#039;ll join, I&#039;ll demonstrate. I have had enough of those management types who want to go along to get along, and I&#039;m ready to get in their faces, once and for all.

AAK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree that we need &#8220;something like&#8221; HRC, that doesn&#8217;t mean we need HRC.</p>
<p>Their stance on stripping out transgender rights from ENDA showed their true stripes: take whatever you can get so that you don&#8217;t get nothing.</p>
<p>No courage there, esp. from Joe Salmonese, who swore he would not support a non-inclusive ENDA, then did.</p>
<p>What we need now is Larry Kramer and something more like Act Up. We have played the &#8220;we are just like you straight people card&#8221; as long as we can, or should. We&#8217;ve done innumerable campaigns fronted by straights lest the poor Evangelicals hear the hint of a lisp on TV ads or talk-shows.</p>
<p>Enough. This is not about &#8220;accepting us&#8221; or &#8220;tolerating us&#8221; any more. This is about getting equal civil rights, and HRC (not to mention those closet-driven poobahs at Equality California) is not the right vehicle for intense action to claim our Constitutional rights. For that, you need a barful of drag queens like the ones who drove Stonewall and pioneered the demand for gay civil rights.</p>
<p>Hey, Larry, what&#8217;re you doing these days? Wanna do a new Act-Up? If so, I&#8217;ll donate, I&#8217;ll join, I&#8217;ll demonstrate. I have had enough of those management types who want to go along to get along, and I&#8217;m ready to get in their faces, once and for all.</p>
<p>AAK</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/120408-hrc-barely-endorses-maxwell/comment-page-1/#comment-34163</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4453#comment-34163</guid>
		<description>I tend to agree with Bud we do need HRC on one end and the grass roots efforts that have sprung up after prop hate was passed we gave to the fight for marriage equality in California and continue to be a small donator to HRC and will continue to be BUT we will also be fighting our own fight through join the impact here locally as well as giving some to equality pennsylvania to help fight the local fight for marriage equality. I was disappointed in HRC during and after prop hate and the representation that actual gays got in california i am of the opinion that if you want them to know we exist you need to let US do the talking and show our families to everyone</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to agree with Bud we do need HRC on one end and the grass roots efforts that have sprung up after prop hate was passed we gave to the fight for marriage equality in California and continue to be a small donator to HRC and will continue to be BUT we will also be fighting our own fight through join the impact here locally as well as giving some to equality pennsylvania to help fight the local fight for marriage equality. I was disappointed in HRC during and after prop hate and the representation that actual gays got in california i am of the opinion that if you want them to know we exist you need to let US do the talking and show our families to everyone</p>
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		<title>By: Trace</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/120408-hrc-barely-endorses-maxwell/comment-page-1/#comment-34157</link>
		<dc:creator>Trace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 16:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4453#comment-34157</guid>
		<description>Richard, HRC very much exists here in Georgia.  (http://atlanta.hrc.org/)  They are as effective here as they are in any part of the country.  Please note that after the election the Atlanta HRC has no events or posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, HRC very much exists here in Georgia.  (<a href="http://atlanta.hrc.org/" rel="nofollow">http://atlanta.hrc.org/</a>)  They are as effective here as they are in any part of the country.  Please note that after the election the Atlanta HRC has no events or posts.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/120408-hrc-barely-endorses-maxwell/comment-page-1/#comment-34151</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 15:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4453#comment-34151</guid>
		<description>When HRC waffled with their support for inclusion of transgenders  in ENDA, I gave up on HRC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When HRC waffled with their support for inclusion of transgenders  in ENDA, I gave up on HRC.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Barea</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/120408-hrc-barely-endorses-maxwell/comment-page-1/#comment-34084</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Barea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 17:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4453#comment-34084</guid>
		<description>Ok Withers, I&#039;ll take my shot at the HRC...

When I was on the steering committee for the March on Washington they played parlor games trying to get me, staunchly pro-life, to accept their abortion plank and they would accept my youth planks.

Trading protection of youth for abortion.

Yeah, they are so political they forgot about humanity.

Why would anyone withhold support of young LGTBQ&#039;ers just so they could get a non-gay right?  Gay men don&#039;t need abortions.  Trans-men don&#039;t need abortions.

Well, we saw what they did with ENDA didn&#039;t we when the chips were down.

HRC is a political action group, not a gay rights group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok Withers, I&#8217;ll take my shot at the HRC&#8230;</p>
<p>When I was on the steering committee for the March on Washington they played parlor games trying to get me, staunchly pro-life, to accept their abortion plank and they would accept my youth planks.</p>
<p>Trading protection of youth for abortion.</p>
<p>Yeah, they are so political they forgot about humanity.</p>
<p>Why would anyone withhold support of young LGTBQ&#8217;ers just so they could get a non-gay right?  Gay men don&#8217;t need abortions.  Trans-men don&#8217;t need abortions.</p>
<p>Well, we saw what they did with ENDA didn&#8217;t we when the chips were down.</p>
<p>HRC is a political action group, not a gay rights group.</p>
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		<title>By: BUD BURGOON-CLARK</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/120408-hrc-barely-endorses-maxwell/comment-page-1/#comment-34000</link>
		<dc:creator>BUD BURGOON-CLARK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 22:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4453#comment-34000</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s not be so quick to trash HRC. As the late Thomas Merton said, &quot;blessed be the charity of the wealthy.&quot; SOMEBODY has to collect those big checks from the A-Gays .

The explosion of grassroots organizing after the passage of Prop Hate was exhilarating; it remains to be seen to what it will translate in the long term.

Political advocacy is mostly thankless, boring scut-work, but it has to be done. The Internet makes it *easier*, to be SURE.

But enthusiasm doesn&#039;t pay for mailing lists, signature gatherers, polls, phone banks and yes, focus groups. Those are ALL part of the modern political apparatus.

I don&#039;t know if the handlers of the No On Hate campaign could have foreseen the last-minute avalanche of cash from the pagan fertility cult bigots in Salt Lake City or not. Certainly the last-minute avalanche of Yes On Hate TV ads and their dirty, low-down, LYING messages were probably what tipped the balance.

My first question when somebody trashes a LGBTQ org is this: &quot;are you willing to do it, and can you do it BETTER?&quot;

There&#039;s a need for orgs like HRC *and* Join The Impact.

Cheers,

Bud Burgoon-Clark
wondering why he has to pay taxes
as a SECOND-class citizen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s not be so quick to trash HRC. As the late Thomas Merton said, &#8220;blessed be the charity of the wealthy.&#8221; SOMEBODY has to collect those big checks from the A-Gays .</p>
<p>The explosion of grassroots organizing after the passage of Prop Hate was exhilarating; it remains to be seen to what it will translate in the long term.</p>
<p>Political advocacy is mostly thankless, boring scut-work, but it has to be done. The Internet makes it *easier*, to be SURE.</p>
<p>But enthusiasm doesn&#8217;t pay for mailing lists, signature gatherers, polls, phone banks and yes, focus groups. Those are ALL part of the modern political apparatus.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if the handlers of the No On Hate campaign could have foreseen the last-minute avalanche of cash from the pagan fertility cult bigots in Salt Lake City or not. Certainly the last-minute avalanche of Yes On Hate TV ads and their dirty, low-down, LYING messages were probably what tipped the balance.</p>
<p>My first question when somebody trashes a LGBTQ org is this: &#8220;are you willing to do it, and can you do it BETTER?&#8221;</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a need for orgs like HRC *and* Join The Impact.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Bud Burgoon-Clark<br />
wondering why he has to pay taxes<br />
as a SECOND-class citizen</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/120408-hrc-barely-endorses-maxwell/comment-page-1/#comment-33931</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4453#comment-33931</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve heard mention of HRC at dinner parties etc. over the years and have attended a few events.  Otherwise HRC doesn&#039;t exist in the Atlanta gay community.  They do throw some great dinners though.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard mention of HRC at dinner parties etc. over the years and have attended a few events.  Otherwise HRC doesn&#8217;t exist in the Atlanta gay community.  They do throw some great dinners though.  <img src='http://www.365gay.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/120408-hrc-barely-endorses-maxwell/comment-page-1/#comment-33865</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 05:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=4453#comment-33865</guid>
		<description>This year I gave a lot to EQCA.  I saw little to nothing spent in the OC against Prop 8.  HRC is too conservative for the times. We need agressive leadership now.  In the coming year I will put my dollars with the ACLU.  I am counting on them to win the case in the CA supreme court overturning H8.  After seeing all the help from out of state this last year, I will send my dollars to organizations in states involved in a fight.  The US gay community must stand together now. I wish I helped out more in Florida this year to stop Q2, which was even worse than prop 8. I see a lot of need for things to start moving on the federal side of things.  Lets all stay together and strong, we will win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This year I gave a lot to EQCA.  I saw little to nothing spent in the OC against Prop 8.  HRC is too conservative for the times. We need agressive leadership now.  In the coming year I will put my dollars with the ACLU.  I am counting on them to win the case in the CA supreme court overturning H8.  After seeing all the help from out of state this last year, I will send my dollars to organizations in states involved in a fight.  The US gay community must stand together now. I wish I helped out more in Florida this year to stop Q2, which was even worse than prop 8. I see a lot of need for things to start moving on the federal side of things.  Lets all stay together and strong, we will win.</p>
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