Comments on: Withers: Are we all victims?

By: James Withers

James Withers — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:24:30 +0000

Chris,

Thanks for your comments and information about the word weekend. I’m always getting that confused.

Sincerely,

James

By: Chris Sullivan

Chris Sullivan — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:19:10 +0000

And this column tells us what actually? Oh that’s right, what we all already know. (The word “weekend” is not a hyphenated word btw).

Seems someone is on their soapbox with not much to say.

By: Trace

Trace — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:51:21 +0000

m, you did find your way to the victims thread. Why am I not surprised?

By: m

Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:11:15 +0000

what if you’re black gay and a woman? and what if you’re poor? what do you have to say about that? what kind of insight could YOU possibly have on the intersection between racism and homophobia? don’t try to play the oppression olympics with people because you’ll probably lose.

By: m

Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:07:44 +0000

victoria- what if you’re black and gay? what do you have to say about that? your post makes absolutely no sense. don’t try to play the oppression olympics because chances are that you’ll lose?

By: m

Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:04:16 +0000

james your arguement is ridiculous. if you’re not a straight white male, you’re being victimized in some way. discrimination of people who do not fit the profile of straight white and male is systematic, meaning whether it’s in your face, or whether you feel it or not you’re facing discrimination. all people can choose to do with information is choose how they respond to it. they can let it crush them and let the bitterness overwhelm them, or they can use it as an impetus to fight ignorance, and inform and educate people. what’s not cool is you trying to make some asinine point by telling them their victimization isn’t real…are you socially aware at all? EVERY black person has suffered from some form of racial discrimination whether they know it or not. every gay person has been victimized because of homophobia in some way, shape, or form. IT IS OKAY TO SAY THAT YOU’VE BEEN WRONGED, WHEN YOU’VE BEEN WRONGED, sorry if that sounds all complainey and weak to you.

By: Mr. Coffee

Mr. Coffee — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 10:31:50 +0000

Victim Schmictim.
It reminds me of discussions we had in grad school in the SF Bay Area comparing the “Berkeley” school of Social Work with the “SFSU” school of Social Work.
I don’t remember which was which, but one was adamant about “not blaming the Victim” (implying the other school did that).
What it comes down to is, bad stuff happens to good people. What makes you a victim, in the end, is accepting that you are powerless – not powerless to stop sh*t from happening, but powerless to take control of your life afterward and DO something (successfully or unsuccessfully) about it.
So, where are we at? We all agree that bad things often happen to Gay people because they are Gay.
Whether that makes us “Victims” or not is just Berkeley-SFSU semantics and a waste of precious oxygen.

By: Victoria

Victoria — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:16:59 +0000

Neil: “I can agree that on some level gay people have been victims of discrimination. But not nearly as overtly and actively as the black race.”

Oh, really?

Gay men in particular have lived under a legally and religiously supported sentence of death, torture or imprisonment in the majority of agrarian societies until recent times. Lynchings, however terrible, were sporadic, extra-legal actions.

Lesbians have faced less threat of violence, but as women have experienced the complete restriction of virtually all facets of self-actualization. Men, white or black, at least have been able to be community leaders, scholars, etc. when women were relegated to being baby machines and de facto domestic slaves.

LGBT people have been forced to be utterly invisible with mere mention of their existence a social taboo. We often receive not only lack of support from friends and family, but active harm.

Transgendered people have the highest per capita murder rate of any minority group as I recall.

Slavery (before that gets tossed about) is a institution which affected all people. Americans focus on people of African descent for understandable, but parochial reasons. Millions of Slavs (that is the etymology of the word by the way) and other non-black peoples were being sold into slavery as late as the 1800’s. Saudi Arabia had slavery until the 1960’s!

Consider further:
Interracial marriage has never been illegal in many states.

Non-whites voluntarily participated in the military from the American Revolution on.

By: Sean Martin

Sean Martin — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:42:32 +0000

So let me see if I have this right. Just because you live in a large urban area means everyone has the same opportunities as you and therefore should be grateful that this isnt 1979?

Okay, got it now.

By: GrrrlRomeo

GrrrlRomeo — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 04:45:59 +0000

I think there’s something to be said for shared suffering. And I’m not talking about the shared suffering of two people who have gone through the same thing. I’m talking about compassion for people who are going through something different and sharing in their suffering.

How many people felt pain when they saw the images from Katrina? Why did you feel it? You weren’t there, you weren’t going through it. It wasn’t about you. What about 9/11? The Holocaust, slavery and segregation?

We need to understand that “we” does not mean “me”. If you are personally not oppressed, then you still need to fight for those who are. AIDS has not been an epidemic among gay women, but that has not stopped the many lesbians who get involved in AIDS activism. (I’m not saying lesbians don’t get AIDS, so please don’t read it that way, I’m just saying it’s not as widespread.)

Yes, I sometimes get annoyed with gays who live in a protective gay bubble, who only care about gay rights when it’s their rights in their state. But I still feel for them when they suffer, when they lose rights. And that feeling makes me want to work with them, work together.

Okay, just forget community, we need a coalition. A non-partisan, multi-faith, multi-racial, multi-generational, multi-class, nationwide LGBTQQI coalition for gay rights. AND ONLY gay rights. Check your PETA, Pro-Life, Pro-Choice, Anti-War, ELF, Free Market, Fair Trade, Capitalist, Socialist issues and whatever the hell else doesn’t have to do with being gay at the door.

And by gay rights I actually mean queer rights because I don’t think it’s right to compromise on gender indentity. If transpeople and genderqueers are going to stand with us, we need to stand with them because you know the discrimination we face is connected. Those who discriminate us make little if any distinction between butch women, femme men and trans, or bi and gay. We’re all queer to them. We’re not heteronormative. Even those of us who want to get married will not be any more heteronormative than those who don’t.

Yes, we are all victims…if you really mean *WE*.