Subscribe to Breaking NewsWithers: Prop 8, race, and an apology that is never going to come
A number of you might need to replace tomorrow’s turkey with crow.
After the Proposition 8 vote, a whole lot of folk played the “black homophobia is the reason why gays can’t get married in California” tune. You read that all over the place and if you had the nerve to suggest things were more complicated than that, then the ditty “stop making excuses for black homophobia” was put in the i-Tunes mix.
Hopefully those who grooved to both of those songs (morning Dan Savage), and pointed with furious anger to the CNN exit poll showing that 70 percent of black California voters voted yes on Prop 8, will now humbly apologize. I would prefer if you ate crow breast. New numbers done by political analyst David Binder–they’ve not been released yet–show the black support for Prop 8 to have been 57 percent. [UPDATE: 365gay.com reader Wayne pointed out that Binder been polling for Barack Obama for the past two years.]
I’ll say this right now before moving on: 57 percent is way too high and black folk are going to have to address our homophobia. To repeat and I’ll put it in italics for emphasis: 57 percent is way too high and black folk are going to have to address our homophobia. Anyone who leaves a “stop making excuses” comment needs to sign up for RIF.
And you know what? That 57 percent could have been reduced if the folk running the anti-Proposition 8 team actually had a plan for minority outreach. They didn’t. But why do that right? Much easier to lose the battle then cling to numbers that aren’t related to what happened.
Since when did this NEWS WEBSITE become a site about preaching?
So you are still trying to contend that there isn’t a blatant problem with homophobia within the Black community, and for that matter, Black culture in general? With African countries now making homosexuality a criminal offense, with gays being murdered in Jamaica, and here in America the Black community voted for Prop 8 in higher numbers than ANY other ethnic group. James, it’s really becoming obvious that you just refuse to admit that African American and sadly Black culture has a pervasive problem with homophobia. (and by the way, when exactly are these new numbers going to be released and verified?)And even if correct, which I will wait to see verified before believing, they still show that nearly 60% of the African American’s in California voted against our equality! That’s a problem!
Technically, it’s an editorial, which appear on most news sites.
He’s setting the record straight about the black vote.
The truth is that people of colour are just like everyone else, no better, no worse, with the same influences and baggage as white people. Making us all fucked up but not evil.
James, you know white gays will NEVER see the light or speak the truth! To them, they are not racist and all people of colour, and this includes gay people of colour, are homophobic.
As for for Wayne, he is another white that lumps groups of people together based solely on skin colour. African-Americans are NOT Africans and have nothing to do with the region, are not citizens and have nothing to do with its political or legal standing. I know that that is hard to believe, but yes, African-Americans are AMERICAN, just like you.
But, if we want to go down the road, remember that South Africa, under a Black president, passed gay marriage a long time ago when white folks in Amerika were still arguing against it. And we can lump every white person into the racist group just from what is said on this blog. Fair…right Wayne?
So?? Oh wow, it’s 57%, not 70%, so we should be bloody grateful?
Get real.
“Not enough minority outreach”?
You’re kidding me. If they cant figure out the blatant discrimination at play here, then no amount of “minority outreach” is gonna turn the lightbulb on.
diego, just to set the record straight about South Africa: a black president in fact did NOT make gay marriage a reality in that country. It was the South African Supreme Court the REQUIRED the country to legalize same sex marriage.
As to the content of the actual article I DO think that you and people like Withers are being a bit too PC about this. The fact of the matter is that homophobia IS rampant in the African American community and one of the largest reasons, in my opinion, of this is that young black men do NOT come out as gay at the same rate as their white counter parts.
As a woman of color, I think that on the issue of Prop 8 there wasn’t enough outreach in communities of color AT ALL. For people to read this editorial and make negative comments about communities of color without acknowledging that most of the misinformation that was given to communities of color was given by WHITE conservatives, is ridiculous. Also to acknowledge the homophobia in the Black community is one thing but then to NOT acknowledge the RACISM in the LGBTQ community is also ridiculous. Always using Black people as the scapegoat is not okay especially when this happened because of the RACISM in the overall LGBTQ community. Don’t blame communities of color for this when it was the RESPONSIBILITY of everyone to educate of this issue. Do not make this the fault of black people when the entire anti-Prop 8 campaign targeted only white communities.
And as someone who was at the march in DC against Prop 8 I once again saw NO people of color who were given the floor to speak.
So once again, do not blame when you did not take those steps to educate EVERYONE.
And lastly, LGBTQ communities of color are still waiting for a THANK YOU for everything we did at STONEWALL.
>> “And lastly, LGBTQ communities of color are still waiting for a THANK YOU for everything we did at STONEWALL.”
Come down from your cross, ma’am. The Stonewall bar was open to *everyone* and had people both of colour and (I gather you’re saying by implication) non-colour as customers. Look at photos of the riot and you’ll see a wide variety of skin tones, not just the ones you consider PC. Sorry, but no thank you is necessary. *Everyone* made Stonewall happen. Let’s not revise history to suit your particular poltical agenda.
Diego said: African-Americans are NOT Africans and have nothing to do with the region —-
Really, I know a few African Americans who would forcefully disagree with you on that. In fact the popular “Black Liberation” ideology that President Elect Obama’s own former church preaches that same ideology and it is inextricably linked to Africa! Afro-centrism is an undeniable part of Black culture. And sadly homophobia is pervasive in African American culture as well as Black culture in general. Rap music is filled with anti-gay bigotry, Jamaican Raggae artists have been known to literally call for the murder of gay men, African nations are making Homosexuality a crime. These are not figments of the imagination. They are unfortunately ugly facts that are all to real.
Discrimination in wrong period. Minority outreach? How about just doing the right thing.
Does it REALLY have to be reiterated that the problem is with black priests, preachers, rabbis, and imams, and NOT primarily with the sheeple who blindly follow them, except for the fact that they’re (pardon me) dumb as bricks to do so UNCRITICALLY. Young bisexual black men get away with being on the “down-low” because young GAY black men WANT them on the “down-low.” It’s dangerous, it’s exciting; unfortunately, it’s also the principal means of spreading AIDS, since the macho myth in the black and latino communities says that the penetraTOR is not gay, and therefore immune. Only the penetraTEE is susceptible, and therefore a faggot. I can tell you from personal experience that almost thirty years of AIDS education in those communities hasn’t changed that perception, at least not in San Diego.
All my neighbors are black and hispanic women … I am white; my husband is Native American … we have back yard parties and BBQs together; we baby-sit each other’s pets and kids. We cook for each other when somebody is sick; we give rides to doctor’s appointments, depending on whose car is working. We have formed an intentional community. This is a mixed-race area. How does one translate that kind of one-on-one education and interaction to the black and hispanic ghettos in macrocosm? All MY neighbors voted against Prop. Hate. I jokingly told them “no more barbequed ribs unless you do!” I was immediately bombarded with watermelon seeds (chuckle). See, we’re close enough we can joke around like that and nobody gets offended.
Bud Burgoon-Clark
maker of mouth-watering BBQ ribs
OK, gonna throw my 2 cents in on this one, so here goes. First, from the headline of this article, I am wondering for what
James is expecting an apology. Is it for the racism that reared its ugly head during these debates? Don’t hold your breath. The racists will not apologize and I don’t feel that it is the job for the rest of us to apologize for them. Does racism suck? You betchya! Will an apology from the non-racists white gays (and yes, we exist) have any meaning? No, and although some of us are just as appalled as the black folks, we are not the spokespeople for the entire white gay community. BTW I have encountered at least one virulent black racist in these forums who spouted a diatribe just as disgusting as anything said by white racists here, and yet I don’t see YOU apologizing for that, so I’m sure you see where I am coming from.
Should we apologize for some racist whites who claim that the black community is solely responsible for the passage of Prop 8? Again, some of us know better and again, I am not the spokesperson for the entire white gay world. Many of us DO understand that the passage of Prop 8 was not due to any one specific reason, but rather a combination of many factors. Organized religion shares a huge portion of the blame, but also the apathy and overconfidence of the gay community (of all colors) itself, and also the traitorous gays who voted Republican and for Prop 8 (almost 30% of our brothers & sisters voted against us) and let us not forget a totally lackluster effort by those managing the opposition campaign (you have to question the sanity of putting a Republican in charge of this). While not the leading factor, the numbers from the black community (and Latino) speak for themselves. Whether it was 70% or just under 60%, this clearly shows that there is a issue with homophobia in the black community that needs to be addressed and James, while I do note that you have made this point in the 3 articles (that I recall) addressing the issue of white gay racism, it has always been as more of a sidenote or an afterthought in a much larger argument decrying white gay racism, never as a stand-alone article specifically addressing the homophobic issues to which some of the black community succumb.
diego Said: “James, you know white gays will NEVER see the light or speak the truth! To them, they are not racist and all people of colour, and this includes gay people of colour, are homophobic.”
Diego, I have read many of your posts and have always found them to be on target and spirited and I know you are better than this. Please do not bow to generalizations. We are NOT all like this and just because some of us do question factors involving race and homophobia doesnt mean we are ALL racists. The truth is that this vote has opened up for public display some of the uglier sides of being a minority and if we wish to set these differences aside and move forward together, we must come to an understanding and find the common ground in the spirit of mutual trust and friendship. These issues must be addressed and discussed, in a logical and respectful manner, but to sweep them under the carpet and hope they go unnoticed does a disservice to all involved. Lets stick to truth and peel away the bullshit to move forward together, which I know you are more than capable of doing.
Danielle Said: “As a woman of color, I think that on the issue of Prop 8 there wasn’t enough outreach in communities of color AT ALL”
Ok, I will accept this as a truth and rather than argue that point, I will ask why, if you did not see the Prop 8 opposition campaign was not being more inclusive to people of color, did you not take it upon yourselves to demand that you be included? It seems an easy and convenient excuse to sit back and not speak up, then when the shit hits the fan, blame the white gay community for not doing something which you yourselves could have and should have done. If some segments of the white gay community are not reaching out to our black gay brothers and sisters, why are you not reaching back? In the same vein, I have seen many comments regarding why the “white gay community” has not been more active in protesting black churches and again I ask, why are the black G&L folks doing it either? Do you really need the white gay community to mount your own protests? Granted we should coordinate and move forward together as a whole, but don’t let certain segments of the white gay community prevent you from doing what needs to be done. If any gay group will make an impact on the homophobia in the black community, I think it will be the black gay community that will accomplish this.
” For people to read this editorial and make negative comments about communities of color without acknowledging that most of the misinformation that was given to communities of color was given by WHITE conservatives, is ridiculous.”
I totally agree. White organized religion bears a large part of the blame. The question arises tho…how many black ministers, priests or whatever were publically pointing out that white conservative leaders were leading their community to vote for discrimination, but rather endorsing those views in the name of religion? When someone is trying to sell you bullshit, those thay buy it without thinking for themselves bear part of the responsibility, especially give the white organized religion’s track record of deceit and manipulation.
“Don’t blame communities of color for this when it was the RESPONSIBILITY of everyone to educate of this issue.”
Amen!
“So once again, do not blame when you did not take those steps to educate EVERYONE.”
People must bear part of the responsibility for educating themselves. Sitting back and waiting for someone else to do it for you is really a lame excuse. While it is regrettable that there wasn’t more of an outreach from the white gay community, you still had it within yourselves as black G&L folks to educate your own community. Blame us for our failure, but do not blame us for your failure.
I am very sorry, Mr. Withers.
I never bought that theory that we lost because of the black vote. After watching the Colbert Report and the clips of O’reilly (the only way I can tolerate fox news) insisting that gays had a misguided anger toward the LDS. While blacks made only 10 percent of the total electorate vote is completely stupid to blame it on them in compared it to the epic support that received from out of state mormons. Besides, like Colbert pointed out, is not like there is a centralized church for black people, compared to the the idiot that runs the saddleback megachurch and their tens of thousands of followers.
Is just a simple fact of statistics and logic, if Fox news says is right, then it must be questioned.
I’m not racist. And you know, people who don’t want to believe that are just prejudiced. I’m fully aware that there are racist white gays, and now I’m aware of just how many racist black gays there are too.
People talk about scapegoating, you know not all white gay people jumped on the blame the black community boat. We have something in common here. I’m tired of taking the blame and being responsible for every white person on the planet when they are racist. When a white person says something racist around me, I correct them without hesitation. I do not have privilege or power to end all racism. I’m poor, white and gay…as many gays are.
The leadership in California is awful. I make no excuses for them. I’m not too pleased with the national orgs either. I didn’t elect them though and I don’t even know how “gay leaders” get to be gay leaders.