Subscribe to Breaking NewsWithers: New Yorkers take to the streets over Prop 8
Last night New Yorkers engaged in peaceful demonstrating against last week’s passage of Prop 8. While there is no official number of the protesters (if you were there let us know how it went), the spirited crowd marched down Broadway to Columbus Circle where the city’s Church of Latter Day Saints’ Mormon Temple is located. Mmmm. Wonder why that place was picked.
Yesterday was a start of what will be happening this weekend where cities and towns across the country will be filled with people upset with the results in the California marriage debate. While we curse the dark, which is always easy to do, let’s also praise the light. Yesterday Connecticut became the second New England state to issue same sex marriage certificates.
And a personal tale. Relax peoples. I’m not going to bore with a story about how long me and my man have been together and how I make him blueberry pancakes every Sunday.
On Tuesday, after a lousy day at the day job, I’m on my way to the bank. It’s early evening and streets are crammed with people leaving their offices. Walking toward me is a young couple, both boys. I say boys because I call anyone younger than me a boy. Late high-school? Early college possibly?
They were holding hands and talking to each other. On the surface, not revolutionary; however, this wasn’t the end of a gay pride parade nor were they in a “gay neighborhood.” It was a nameless city street.
Old heads like me remember when even thinking about holding your man’s (or woman’s) hand in public could get the taste slapped out of your mouth. That type of simple, and everyday affection, was not our lot. These two boys are growing up in a different world where they can hold hands and not be noticed, except by cranky hacks like me.
There is much to be angry about and much more that needs to be done. But let’s never forget how much we have travelled.
Hi James, The Protest ROCKED last night in NYC. It was just the shot in the arm I needed. I was wondering about the estimates of the crowd size as well. I keep hearing between 5 and 10 thousand. It seemed closer to 10,000 to me. I posted this on another thread, but here is a link to the video I filmed of the NYC Prop 8 Protest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxREtZGYdfE
Can someone explain to me what is the difference between marriage and a civil union? I have been in a registered partnership in Denmark; the first country in the world to recognize and to issue to same sex couples, since 1989, not Holland, and we receive all the same rights as Heterosexual couples do. We can’t adopt children though and we don’t want to. But doesn’t all this have to do with getting married in a church rather than a city hall?
David – how can you say “we don’t want to” about people in your country’s desire to want to adopt children? You do realize you are attempting to speak for an entire country and I can say with complete confidence that there certainly must be MANY people who DO want to adopt children in yur country. As to you point about the difference between Civil Unions and Marriage – there are several, “Civil Unions” are not recognized under many insurance policies – only “Marriages” are. Additionally, beind denied the use of the term “marriage” creates a supposed “separate but equal” classification for GLBT relationships, which history has proven does not work. In our state of New Jersey, the courts allowed for legally recognized gay partnerships but left it up to the legislature to determine which title to give it – they chose “Civil Unions” but were also manadated to study for a period of time if “Civil Unions” did in fact give GLBT couples FULLY equal treatment. This period has now passed and the results are in and it has been concluded that Civil Unions are NOT AT ALL equal to marriage on multiple levels and it has now been recommended that NJ enact fully marriage eqality laws. I’m sure if you reserch “New Jersey Civil Unions” yuo will be able to learn about it.
David the problem is not so much with the intention of equality of civil unions, but the problems come in implementing that equality. Here in America the state of New Jersey enacted civil unions that were supposed to give gay couples equal marriage rights, but the companies that issue benefits (like medical, inheritance, etc) only approve benefits for “married” couples. Since a civil union is not a “marriage” the companies have denied gay couples in civil unions their benefits. Separate is never Equal. Especially in America.
David, Chris and Wayne explained it well but I think there is something more fundamental..I may be wrong, but as you say you have a registered partnership and you go to a church if you wish for marriage. I believe that means (as in England?) all couples get the civil contract part done under authority of the state. The religious “marriage” part is optional. Thus, by giving you the right to register your partnership, it becomes equal to straight couples.
Here in the US where religion rules everything, unfortunately, the churches perform the marriages ON BEHALF of the authority of the state. The state actually deputizes, so to speak, religious people to carry out the civil part of the marriage. There is only one institution here, marriage, and it is not religious. Civil union or civil partnerships don’t exist legally.
So when a state grants civil partnerships to gays, a few things happen:
-we are forced to register our relationships with a name not recognized by laws. All of our laws about taxation, visitation, inheritance, health care etc use the word marriage. Civil union or registered union or whatever else you call it may recognize our relationship but it does not make us “married” which is the only way we can claim all those rights afforded by the myriad of laws that refer to marriage.
It also creates confusion amongst the religious. They get married by their priest. They don’t understand it is the power of the state that is granting the marriage. We have a phrase “by the power granted to me” which is said when an official performs a marriage…that person means the state has granted this power. So it IS NOT religious marriage, but it is being done in a church by a preacher. Religious people confuse civil marriage with some other form of recognition by their church. The result is they think if we are allowed to marry their church will have to do it, and they don’t like that, since churches are bigoted cults set up to scare the masses into giving them money so their leaders don’t have to work. Since the people are so scared about going to hell and the preachers keep telling them to procreate (so as to create more people donating money) it is very easy for the preachers to scare people about our relationships.
We must force people to consider the conundrum of their religious affiliation instead of just saying keep being bigoted, we’ll create our own institution. If we conced the word marriage we let them think its religious, when it is not. If the state wants to recognize our relationships, it MUST be marriage or we are perpetuating the confusion caused by priests performing marriages.
We also must have marriage so that we immediately fall under the myriad of laws that say marriage, not some other form of union.
Lastly it is about dignity. Seperate but equal is not only not true, it is insulting. My neighbor can marry and divorce constantly, can beat his wife and cheat on her, but their relationship is better than ours? I don’t think so and I won’t give in for anything less.
There is a simple solution to this. It is not to change all marriages to civil unions (gay and straight) as many, many people have written on these pages. I don’t want to take away my neighbor’s marriage! We simply need to take away the power granted by the state to preachers to perform civil marriages.
If only Justices of the Peace and civic authorities can perform marriages, everyone goes to city hall, or hires a justice to attend chapel and perform the marriage. Then, if desired, the preacher can bless the union.
EVERYONE gets a secular marriage. NO PREACHER can peform marriage. That takes away the confusion, doesn’t take marriage away from straights and still allows them to have the stain of religion on their marriage if they make such an unfortunate choice.
Of course from my rhetoric you can also surmise that I’d just as well ban religion all together. Get rid of it, stop the wars, stop the hate, stop the mutilation, abuse and feat. Stop making this world worse in the hopes of another world. Lets all come together to make this world, the only one we have, better for future generations.
Ban religion, we’d have peace and prosperity. And one helluva auction in Rome!
To David in Denmark, when you travel outside your country for business or pleasure, to a country where domestic partnerships are designed to be less than same-sex marriage, what happens to those equal-to-marriage rights you had while in Denmark, but aren’t recognized in the country you travelled to? Also, you surely don’t speak for every gay couple when you say they all don’t want to adopt. About a year ago, didn’t the government there try to legalize it? They wouldn’t have tried, if nobody wanted it. Last, my marriage was performed in my home, by a secular humanist officiant. The church was most definitely not welcome at my wedding.
NEW PROTEST MARCH ON DC!
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Always I have wanted to see “people”, a “family” being a part of something “greater”, than themselves. I am happy that people are being “involved” with their country. It gives my “heart”, “life” a nice feeling despite the differences….it is a time that you see people “really” value life. I am glad “action” is being done, to inspire.
“By their fruits, ye shall know them”
When those cute young Mormon missionaries come to our doors, bringing their Books of Mormon to give potential new converts they often quote this scripture from the Gospel of Mathew, 7:16 to be exact. Mormons or members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to be exact, love to show off their good works. Their prophet and founder Joseph Smith broke with the protestant tradition of “By faith alone”. He and Mormons believe that not only must you believe in Jesus Christ, the Book of Mormon and the ordinances (aka sacraments) of the church but also must do good among men. And this doing good among men, is what our Mormon friends, neighbors and acquaintances take seriously. Those Mormon missionaries with their white shirts and black pants bicycling around sharing the Gospel according to Joseph Smith, are the most public face of their church. They try to do good, they offer to volunteer, help elderly people go to and from the pharmacy, help people moving in and out, they hold doors open and they do all of this with a genuine smile on their face and a desire to do good. As they preach their newer, more complete and restored Gospel of Jesus Christ according to Joseph Smith, they have a tough time selling to people that Native Americans are lost tribes of Jews who fled just before the Babylonian Captivity and that Jesus Christ after his Crucifixion appeared resurrected to these same Native American Jews as Quezacoatl. So more often than not, Mormons fall back on this scripture in the Book of Mathew as a means of validating themselves to potential converts who are likely skeptical of Joseph Smith’s revelation.
The Mormon Church, very much like the Roman Catholic Church, recognizes that gay and lesbian people do not choose to be gay. Their current and former President (or Pope) has acknowledged scientific evidence that homosexuality is not and has never been a choice. But despite this the church still views homosexuality, same-sex marriage, and sex between same-sex couples as wrong. Far be it for me to tell Mormons what to believe, but here’s why this matters to the rest of us. While Mormons seek the full protection of the First Amendment’s protection of Freedom of Religion, due to their own history of persecution, they themselves don’t feel obliged to respect the freedoms of others, particularly the Freedom to Marry, which gay and lesbian Californians had prior to Proposition 8. The Mormon church didn’t simply preach their version of marriage in their own churches, chapels and temples, they used their church’s vast resources and deliberately meddled in the political affairs of California, breaking not only federal law, but violating the sanctity and dignity of marriages between same-sex couples. By doing this, the Mormon church spread a campaign of deliberate lies, telling the voters of California that Prop 8 was not about being anti-gay, but pro-family. Marriage equality never threatened traditional heterosexual marriage it only extended the current legal definition to include same-sex couples, in accordance with the equal protection clause of both the federal and Californian Constitutions. The Mormon church lied, bore false witness, used its funds in complete contradiction of federal law and even it’s own church doctrine. For gay and lesbian people, particularly married couples or couples on the verge of marriage, the Mormon fruit that is being born is not one of love and kindness but of hatred, intolerance and malevolent intervention in the private contractual affairs of people.
Mormons are wondering why there is so much venom, so much anger, so much hatred being shown to them. They need only look in the mirror, for those Mormons who didn’t support Prop 8 and haven’t ever harbored homophobia, they need to look at their church leadership. The Mormon church is getting the Lion’s Share of the attention, because they donated the Lion’s share of the Yes on Prop 8 money. “What thou sowest thou shalt also reap”, Mormons have no one but themselves to blame for the venom being shown their way, for they sowed the seed of intolerance, bigotry and hatred. Gay and lesbian people have justifiably grown tired of religious based attacks on themselves and their rights. And we’re judging Mormons by their fruits, and those fruits are bigotry, intolerance, malicious and slanderous lies. And as long as Mormons continue in their quest to force and legislate their beliefs on what marriage should be, gays and lesbians will be there to stop them.