Subscribe to Breaking NewsWithers: The morning after the Palin and Biden debate
This morning I’m a little disappointed. Last night’s vice president debate was supposed to be filled with kooky moments. Like Joe Biden having a meal of shoe leather or Sarah Palin confusing the leaders of China and Iran (I do that all the time). However, both candidates can return to their camps proud.
Biden kept his answers short (for him that is) didn’t say or do anything sexist, and the moment he choked up about his kids was priceless. Palin showed why McCain picked her. She was bright, attacked with a smile, and even had some fun (didn’t she wink at the audience?).
The morning after, I’m not as joyous about Biden’s comment on same-sex couples. Hey I’m a cranky queen. Don’t get me wrong. I still think it proves a significant political paradigm shift, but like we all know: proof comes with actions and deeds.
But the idea of a shifting landscape remains. Heck even Palin’s response to the same-sex relationship question is much more than any Republican has said in the past. Here is Palin, a darling of the base (a darling of the base), saying this:
“No one would ever propose, not in a McCain-Palin administration, to do anything to prohibit, say, visitations in a hospital or contracts being signed.”
Sure we can parse that and even find it silly, but remember: it is light years ahead of four years ago when a certain candidate for the GOP was trying to sell same-sex relationships down the river. That is worth remembering.
Well, I’m sorry James Withers, but here is where I disagree with you. I guess you have low expectations of the female brain, but Palin is far from bright. In fact, I feel offended at a gut level whenever people talk about her as being intelligent. Do you really think that little of the female of our species? As a member of mensa and someone with 2 masters (one of those an MBA) and a PhD on the way, I see Palin as average.
WHO’S straight??!! Palin couldn’t give a straight answer to a question if her lifetime supply of mooseburgers depended upon it. Yeah, she threw the GLBT community a bone (wonder who in her circle IS gay?), but don’t expect that to translate into equal rights or full civil rights or same-sex civil marriage. In other words, don’t expect it to translate into ANYTHING concrete. Logheads, are you listening? Palin may have come across as “normal,” but remember the slavering hordes of Konservative Kristianist Krazies whom she “energized” (they smell blood in the water). She is on the wrong side of just about every OTHER issue: a woman’s right to choose, the environment, the economy, the war, the Supreme Court (probably the MOST important difference … fascist judges appointed by a Republican would be with us for DECADES),diplomacy (McCain would rather bomb, bomb, bomb Iran that sit down and TALK to them). Odds are now something like one in four that McCain won’t live to complete a second term. Whether he does or whether he doesn’t, that STILL sets up Palin as the anointed candidate in 2012 or 2016. GODDESS FORBID!
Bud Clark
San Diego CA USA
I don’t give any credit to condescending statements from Palin on gay rights. When I hear that the only rights they’re willing to “give” us is that we can visit our partners on their death bed in the hospital, I get enraged. And who knows what she meant when she was talking about signing contracts? And her comments regarding “some of my best friends are…” certainly would have been laughed off the stage if she were talking about other minorities, such as African Americans. Really, the only thing worth remembering is that she is smiling, asking for our vote, and willing to give us nothing. And, she even promotes these anti-gay marriage amendments to state and federal constitutions. Vote Democratic folks! There’s no other choice.
time out- are we completely igoring the fact that he clearly stated his opposition to gay marriage- separate but equal is not equal. Gay or straight- two people who make a lifetime committment to each other are married.
Well James, This Non-Cranky Bear is happy that the Cranky Queen is looking more objectively at this situation.
I don’t know how anyone can at least not like Palin’s personality. She’s far more dynamic than Biden could ever pretend to be.
And as posted in another section, I think that we have actually seen a side of her that is truer to her real personality. I think that she believes in treating people with dignity. (Whether the base likes it or not.)
I think it’s still a shame that we have no candidate that is against gay marriage. Rights to visitation in a hospital and “contracts such as life insurance don’t exactly give us the same rights as heterosexual married couples. I’m disappointed.
Withers must have seen a different debate than I did. What I saw was Palin repeatedly evading the moderator’s questions and repeatedly changing the subject in order to hide behind issues she was already prepped for and more comfortable with. What I saw was a high-school debater armed with rehearsed, packaged answers, not a mature woman ready to take on serious, complex issues.
I would not be comfortable with “contracts” as a way of securing my union to my partner. Under contract law, I’d still be taxed for shared health benefits (if offered), probably wouldn’t be able to keep our home because of inheritance taxes, and would miss out on the other over 1,000 benefits afforded to married couples in this country. While I didn’t expect either candidate to come outright and say “I support gay marriage,” I do have hope that Biden’s declaration of equality will get us there.
We also have to look beyond just marriage. We must also look towards an administration that would not object to repealing DADT. We need an administration that would sign an inclusive ENDA bill. We need an administration that would repeal DOMA so that those who are fortunate enough to live in a state that does have marriage can share in the federal benefits of married couples.
We must begin to look at the big picture and not be fooled by the magician’s assistant.
Trace, I find Palin’s personality quite annoying and disingenuous. “By golly” and “by gosh” just do not do it for me.
e — We shouldn’t care about the name, whether it is called “marriage” or “civil union.” What is important is that Obama/Biden will grant us the same status under Federal Law as those who are married. That extends far beyond visitation or inheritence rights. By golly, I’ll bet there are many opposite sex couples who would opt for a civil union over marriage provided the rights and benefits were same.
McCain/Palin are both talking about Wills, Powers of Attorneys, etc. Those legal documents are fine as far as they go but in no way guarantee us the 1,000 plus rights currently enjoyed by marriage. I believe Obama/Biden will guarantee us those rights through federally recognized civil unions (or by any other name).
AR, you’re probably annoyed by Palin because of your numerous advanced degrees and because you’re a member of Mensa.
Those of us that tend to judge someone on character may disagree?
… Trace - A Bear That Has Been Known To Use “By Golly and By Gosh”
We need to stop focusing on her folksy talk. That is well and good for neighborly conversations, but I too found it hard to equate that to any knowledge of the issues or her ability to affect change in things that matter to the middle class or the LGBT community. After a while, the “you betchas” and such did get annoying, particularly when it was followed by her venturing away from the question to spew nonsense that she’d already said in the previous 3 questions.
I only have one BA, but still believe there is a difference between being folksy and being qualfied to be VP.
How can you be OK with separate but equal? I completely agree that we have to take small steps; but as I recall, the separate but equal drinking fountains didn’t work out so well. We can’t look at marriage as just a term, it is an act, and in some ages a contract that commits two people together. But I am sure this argument is falling on deaf ears, so let me try another method. What we heard last night was that neither running party believes that the LGBT community should be treated equally. Point blank. And when the government doesn’t think we are equal, it gives the rest of the world the justification they need to bully, mistreat, or even abuse our community. Here’s a dramatic queen response for you… Those who do not believe we should be treated as equal are contributing to the hundreds of gay teen suicides; or to the thousands of gay bashing’s. Our own government is saying that we are not equal.
It saddens me that we have not learned from our past; that every person should be treated as equal.
If Palin was able to jump over the bar during the debate, then so could anyone who is handicapped, considering where the bar was “buried”. The media lowered it so far, I expect it was buried in a hole that would have opened in China has it been dug only one foot deeper. Anyone was able to easily walk over that bar!
Witch Palin was irritating, child-like, and she spoke condescendingly to one who is easily qualified to be President, as well as VP. She sure sounded monotonous and emotionless and spoke like a child who was “saying their piece” in a children’s church pageant. In fact, at times, she even “lectured the audience” like they were her Sunday school class. Her answers were mixed up and confusing, and she constantly changed the subject and did not answer many questions. She spoke like someone who has much to hide, and she does!
She thinks she has a superior moral authority, which she does NOT. Her record shows, without a doubt, she is a part of the “good ole’ person” network, and she takes “secret revenge” on those who oppose her ideas and desires. She calls her opponents “haters” and sets in motion a campaign to undermine them. Her methods are WORSE than what currently transpires in Washington
On the other hand, I found Biden’s answers to be business-like, clear and accurate. He stated the case and backed up his statements with facts. Only a couple answers were stretched, but certainly not as inaccurate or anywhere near the lies Palin made.
Today’s Orlando Sentinel revealed she not only distorted the facts, but actually lied about them, and greatly distorted the legislative records of Biden and Obama. She even claimed to have been in opposition to big oil, when in fact her record places her in direct alignment with their goals and business practices in Alaska.
Two national polls have said that Biden got a 51% rating, while Palin has a 36% rating.
Other polls show:
Two non-scientific polls:
(1) AOL web site shows Biden winning 48% to 45%.
(2) MSNBC show Biden winning 78.6% to 18.9%.
Randomly selected subjects on other polls show Biden as the winner:
(3) CNN/Opinion Research Biden wins 51% to 36%
(4) CBS Biden wins 46% to 21%
(5) Fox Biden wins 61% to 39%
In a CBS poll of the uncommitted voters:
(a) 18% now say they will vote Obama/Biden.
(b) 10% now say McCain/Palin.
In this debabate, they both may have “jumped over the bar”, and this debate is not a game changing event, but it showed which one is ready to be president, and it sure “ain’t” the bigoted, lying, deceiving and evil Witch Palin. And medical evidence shows McCain has a 25% chance of NOT surviving his first 4 year term.
And yes, I am prejudiced towards someone who is qualified and informed.
And yes, I am against someone who is not, and never will be, qualified and is not informed, and probably does not have the capacity to do so.
[“No one would ever propose, not in a McCain-Palin administration, to do anything to prohibit, say, visitations in a hospital or contracts being signed.”]
Typical. They don’t have to do anything to prohibit these situations because THEY ALREADY EXIST.